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-   -   IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/298002-contracting-banking-vs-pharma-vs-telecom.html)

timpeterson 08.05.2020 16:26

IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
What are the best paying companies to do contracting for in Switzerland?

Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom

My impression is banking CS/UBS/JulisBaar/Vontobel still have the best offer but pharma starts matching it from Roche/Novartis. Or Telecom with swisscom/upc
I gave up on Google/Facebook they are just too complicated/demanding to interview with. They love PhD's and ivy-league too much.

#1 What do you think pays the best?
#2 I see day rates start being capped at 850chf? Where before it could hit the 1200chf? What do you think? (a ton of offers at 500 which makes a permanent position better)

Ps. Let's not discuss major outliers or emotional stuff about passion ;)


Thank you

dilip_gem 08.05.2020 16:43

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timpeterson (Post 3180056)

I gave up on Google/Facebook they are just too complicated/demanding to interview with. They love PhD's and ivy-league too much.

Really? :D

CodPeace 08.05.2020 17:24

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timpeterson (Post 3180056)
What are the best paying companies to do contracting for in Switzerland?

Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom

Most big companies have a score card, and a developer will have a mark on that scorecard, and that is all they will pay, managers hands are tied to that rate.
A developer for Pharma has a rate @800-900, sometimes more.

Pharma will use an agency, so they want their cut, hence you see the 500-600 rates.
The golden days of IT contractors getting 1400/1600 are gone, and although occasionally those rates to come up, it's rare.
You are competing with Indian outsourcers who can place a guy here onsite at @ <600 with zero hassle, and replace him at the drop of hat if needed.

You need to be niche/specialised to get 'good' rates nowadays.
That's my opinion anyway.

Treverus 08.05.2020 17:53

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
It’s not a matter of industry- it’s a question how desirable the job is. The more prestigious the company, the lower the pay. Simple example: the large famous banks will push the rates with their agencies far more than the niche firm struggling to get the talent.

The newer the technology, the „hotter“ the topic - the worse you will be paid. A dead end job with outdated technology in a bank nobody cares about typically would pay best in the short run. Anyone paying more than 800 a day to an agent must have a reason to do so.

spark 08.05.2020 17:57

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timpeterson (Post 3180056)
I gave up on Google/Facebook they are just too complicated/demanding to interview with. They love PhD's and ivy-league too much

You're mistaken here. For generic developer roles they actually don't give a single f/ck about your degree and school anymore. What really counts is if you can crack leetcode-style interview questions on whiteboard under pressure in 40 minutes.

For more specialized roles like AI/ML they do still care. Apple, Facebook and Microsoft in Zurich actually have rather small engineering offices seeking exactly this type of talent for AR/VR and self driving. But not Google, they are too big and hire everyone and their uncle, as long as you have a pulse and can crack the coding interview questions. (Or should I say, "were hiring", covid screwed up advertisement companies big time)

NotAllThere 08.05.2020 19:58

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timpeterson (Post 3180056)
What are the best paying companies to do contracting for in Switzerland?

Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom

I've had top rate jobs at all three. Are you actually good at what you do? Shouldn't be a problem then.

kerneltrick 08.05.2020 20:12

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spark (Post 3180080)
small engineering offices seeking exactly this type of talent for AR/VR and self driving.

Autonomous driving? I'm interested. Where? In Zurich?

spark 08.05.2020 20:24

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kerneltrick (Post 3180120)
Autonomous driving?

Yes, Apple's Special Project. They have a group here in Zurich working on imitation learning, reporting to Goodfellow (in US).

Beware you won't get a job there with just your algorithm-fu like at Google. They are hunting after people experienced in CV and reinforcement learning. Ideal candidate would have just finished their PhD at ETH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerneltrick (Post 3180120)
Where? In Zurich?

Hardturmstrasse 131, 5th floor, last time I was there. But they said they might be moving

timpeterson 08.05.2020 20:58

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 3180119)
I've had top rate jobs at all three. Are you actually good at what you do? Shouldn't be a problem then.

Yeah i get the rates, but see them dropping, while my skill is increase, and i have 45 year old collage that get same rate as a 35yo ;). Never said yes to below 700 but i see a downward trend. And as @CodPeace mention you can feel this score card mentality. The price is that price and if you don't like it they find another one. I guess it's good for younger devs but the experienced don't get much extra for their significant experience.

Jim2007 08.05.2020 20:59

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CodPeace (Post 3180074)
The golden days of IT contractors getting 1400/1600 are gone, and although occasionally those rates to come up, it's rare.

Nah, they were at best the bronze days...

The late 80s - no foreigners, no agents, no O/T restrictions and 200 - 275 hourly rates.

timpeterson 08.05.2020 21:02

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spark (Post 3180080)
You're mistaken here. For generic developer roles they actually don't give a single f/ck about your degree and school anymore. What really counts is if you can crack leetcode-style interview questions on whiteboard under pressure in 40 minutes.

For more specialized roles like AI/ML they do still care. Apple, Facebook and Microsoft in Zurich actually have rather small engineering offices seeking exactly this type of talent for AR/VR and self driving. But not Google, they are too big and hire everyone and their uncle, as long as you have a pulse and can crack the coding interview questions. (Or should I say, "were hiring", covid screwed up advertisement companies big time)

Yeah cracking leetcode-style questions is the key there, which is one of the reasons i gave up on them, it seems so pointless. Never understood why they hire like this. Maybe it's easy automate and generate constant data on, would like to know how their HR is designed. Regarding the AR/VR/AI/ML i assume they a looking for the ETH guys that are deep into very niche topic. To me a bit risky to put all you market value into one niche skill. But of course it make you rare with a big upside when you are also needed by the bigtech.

spark 08.05.2020 21:15

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timpeterson (Post 3180129)
Yeah cracking leetcode-style questions is the key there, which is one of the reasons i gave up on them, it seems so pointless

The point is $$$. You won't get this kind of money elsewhere in Zurich as a dev. And it's much faster to study for these questions than do a PhD

NotAllThere 09.05.2020 08:41

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timpeterson (Post 3180125)
...i have 45 year old collage...

Did it at school, did you? :D

jmf 10.05.2020 08:00

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
A recently advertised job (though an agency) for an on-site (no remote work) dev at one of the pharma companies was offering 800chf/day all-in (while asking for what i would rate as mid-level skills)

robBob 10.05.2020 09:46

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
I would say Pharma. Basically these days I find that industry in general including Pharma is not only paying better but has the more exciting work.
Have never been at a Telecom though but have heard they pay the least.
Also banks these days seem to pay by the day. In the industry it is still by the hour. Makes a difference.

timpeterson 10.05.2020 21:41

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robBob (Post 3180358)
I would say Pharma. Basically these days I find that industry in general including Pharma is not only paying better but has the more exciting work.
Have never been at a Telecom though but have heard they pay the least.
Also banks these days seem to pay by the day. In the industry it is still by the hour. Makes a difference.

Who do you think is most demanding(pressuring) of banks and pharma? I've heard pharma is very demanding in general, not sure if it's also like that in the IT side of things.

robBob 15.05.2020 19:23

Re: IT contracting - Banking vs Pharma vs Telecom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timpeterson (Post 3180563)
Who do you think is most demanding(pressuring) of banks and pharma? I've heard pharma is very demanding in general, not sure if it's also like that in the IT side of things.

That all depends more on your project leader and line manager.


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