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Old 13.05.2020, 05:33
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Pregnancy during termination notice period

Hi all,

I just got a termination notice from my employer (Credit Suisse) to end my work contract. The 3 months notice period starts in April and ends in June 2020 (which is my last day of work too). I have been working there since Sept 2018.

I just realised that I am pregnant but I can not be sure how many weeks of pregnancy yet. My appointment with my gynacology is next week.

a) Does it matter if my pregnancy starts before my notice period? or after my notice period?

b) If my pregnancy starts after notice period, can CS retract the termination letter and take me back as an employee?

c) have also registered to RAV after I got my termination notice. Should I inform RAV and CS about my early pregnancy now or after 3 months (safer period of pregnancy)? What is the impact to my employment and termination, in case of miscarriage after I tell them (I had a history of miscarriage about 6 years ago)?

d) From my understanding, my termination resumes after 16 weeks of my child birth. My retired parents in law are willing to take care of my child during daytime on weekdays. What kind of childcare proof should i give RAV to show that i am able to work full time, if I still couldnt find a new job after child birth? A letter from my parents in law?

I am very stressful and couldn't sleep. Please advise.

Kind Regards,
Sally
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Old 13.05.2020, 06:58
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

This should tell you all you need to know on the employment side.

https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/ho...hmerinnen.html

See the section on Termination.
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Old 13.05.2020, 09:00
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

Don't stress! The laws are very clear. You are protected.


For the RAV, just ask them what they want re: childcare. they will have a system. It's great that your in-laws can offer childcare...



My advice is to not make any fast decisions, see your gynaecologist next week - I suspect they might even be able to advise you on the legal protection as I am sure they see it all the time!


Oh, and congratulations on your pregnancy...
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Old 13.05.2020, 16:16
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

If you were pregnant before you got fired the redundancy is null and void as if it never happened.

If pregnant while in notice period, the notice period freezes until birth date + 14 weeks (or whatever CS has as maternity leave benefits) and then it resumes.

So at the very least you keep your job for around another year.
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Old 13.05.2020, 16:46
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

I don't understand your termination timings.

You "just" got notice means the 3 months are June, July and August.

If you were notified in April then the 3 months would be May-June-July.

You cannot serve a retroactive termination - what am.i missing?
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Old 13.05.2020, 17:02
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

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I don't understand your termination timings.

You "just" got notice means the 3 months are June, July and August.

If you were notified in April then the 3 months would be May-June-July.

You cannot serve a retroactive termination - what am.i missing?
She said the 3 months notice period starts in April and ends in June 2020. Seems clear even though she said " just"
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Old 13.05.2020, 17:05
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

If you were on a fixed term contract, then the protection offered does not apply.
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Old 14.05.2020, 04:17
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

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She said the 3 months notice period starts in April and ends in June 2020. Seems clear even though she said " just"
Well then she was given notice in March and now its 2 months later so "just" seems strange use of language and I want to make sure the company is not trying to give retroactive notice.
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Old 14.05.2020, 08:45
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

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Well then she was given notice in March and now its 2 months later so "just" seems strange use of language and I want to make sure the company is not trying to give retroactive notice.
From other errors (gynecology, stressful) it's pretty clear her English isn't standard British English (I just checked, she's British Asian). Don't get too hung up on a usage.
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Old 14.05.2020, 13:41
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

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From other errors (gynecology, stressful) it's pretty clear her English isn't standard British English (I just checked, she's British Asian). Don't get too hung up on a usage.
Again not "hung up" on usage. Just trying to figure out the timeline. She also says "just" realized out was pregnant so pretty relevant here to understand the timeline to have a sense of what is being meant.
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Old 14.05.2020, 20:47
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

Thank you for all the replies.

Please allow me to clarity. My termination notice period is from April till June. I just did a pregnancy test and it was positive.

I am aware that pregnant women cannot be fired. But,
I am still a bit confused with the timing. Does it mean that if I am pregnant during my termination notice period, my termination will automatically resume after 16 week of childbirth? In this case, I do not go to work until childbirth because i had been served termination notice?

If i am pregnant before the start of my termination notice period, I am still a normal employee and not terminated employee. In this case, i will go to work like normal until my childbirth. Correct?

Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 15.05.2020, 03:59
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

Ok so I will make some assumptions.

1) You go terminated sometimes in March to be doing notice Apr-May-June. Let's assume March 15th.
2) You just did a pregnancy test and it was positive - if your period is super regular and you were 3 days late, then it is assumed the first day of your last period to be the start of pregnancy. Hence if you did your test on May 10th, your pregnancy would have started about April 9th.

This is hypothetical calculations as a doctor has to confirm them.

As Troubleawesome stated above:

If you were pregnant before you got fired the redundancy is null and void as if it never happened.

If pregnant while in notice period, the notice period freezes until birth date + 14 weeks (or whatever CS has as maternity leave benefits) and then it resumes.

Therefore it appears the second is the situation that applies to you. I would wait until the doctor confirms the dates.
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Old 15.05.2020, 18:58
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

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In this case, I do not go to work until childbirth because i had been served termination notice?
Since you keep being paid you must keep working as usual and until childbirth (illness and inability to work due to the pregnancy aside). Think of it as you having received notice for April next year or thereabouts, assuming the notice is valid in the first place (see kri's post above).

See here for some official info.
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Old 16.05.2020, 07:16
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

Hi all,

Thanks so much for your replies.

a)Does it mean that I am eligible to go to work until child birth if i am pregnant, regardless of the start of the pregnancy, be it before or during the termination notice period?

b)If so, is the employer allowed to transfer me to other department without my agreement?

c)My concern is also when to tell CS about my pregnancy. My biggest fear is that once I told them about it with the report from dr, if i have miscarriage a few weeks or months later(i had miscarriages and it was very emotional to me, especially when more people know about it), what happen to the termination? Will it resume immediately after the date of the miscarriage confirmation from dr? Or will it backdate to the initial termination notice period?

d) Is there any benefits of telling the employer or RAV as soon as possible?

I appreciate your replies. Thanks and stay safe!

Kind Regards,
Sally
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Old 16.05.2020, 12:01
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

I suggest firstly that you book in with a doctor to confirm the pregnancy and talk through your fears.



If you are already registered with RAV then it is probably a good idea to speak to them - certainly they will tell you your rights, or give you the details of who to talk to about your rights and how the system works.


There is no need to tell your employer right now that you are pregnant. You can keep working as normal and act like nothing is going on... as you have experienced with previous miscarriages, it's a stressful period and hard to be sure everything will be 'OK'. It's really up to you.


If you are unwell (pregnancy complications, miscarriage) you are entiitled to normal sick leave. Your doctor can write you a certificate. They don't need to write the reason if you don't want them to.



If you miscarry, you should get a medical time off. Certainly you don't have to go back to work if you are too ill (physical or mental) - the doctor can give you a certificate.



If you in Zurich there is a migrant women's advice service called 'Infodona' - they can talk to you and I am sure they can refer you to get the right advice and counselling/support and it will be confidential.
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Old 18.05.2020, 10:10
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

Hi, thanks everyone for the replies.

I went to the doctor today and I am pregnant! I am so so excited and at the same time, worried and anxious. I know, I should be more relaxed but because of my past miscarriages, I am still phobia and emotional about pregnancy. Here are my concerns and I hope you can help to clear my worries:

a) According to my doctor, my pregnancy starts in mid of April (which is 0.5 months within my termination notice period). Since my 3-month notice period started in 01 April, does it mean that my remaining 2.5 months of termination automatically will resume immediately after 16 weeks of child birth?

b) I am aware that employees who are pregnant are not able to be terminated. If the pregnancy starts before the termination period, the employer has to reissue the termination letter again after childbirth because the previous termination letter is considered void. In my case, my employer does not need to give me another termination letter after my childbirth, since my pregnancy starts within the termination notice period? True?

c) I plan to inform my employer this week. If I have a miscarriage again (hopefully not!!!), will my remaining 2.5 months termination resume immediately after my doctor's report about the miscarriage? Or from 01 April?

d) No matter what happens to this pregnancy, my husband and I discussed and since I will be out of job, we will concentrate on building a small family as my age is catching up as well. I am also a bit concerned about financial circumstances if we proceed with this way. If I have miscarriage for this current pregnancy and we try to have baby again and if my future pregnancy starts within the period when I am with RAV, does my new pregnancy somehow prolong the period my RAV eligibility? I have been working 100 since 01 Sept 2018. Just an example for easier understanding, if I have miscarriage for this current pregnancy on 01 June 2020, how long is my entitlement for RAV since I work for 21 months only? If my future pregnancy starts in December 2020, how long will I be entitled for RAV?

I know I have been thinking too much but I really wish to know what options and circumstances I may face to avoid regrets in the future.

Appreciate your replies. Thanks very much!
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Old 18.05.2020, 10:27
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

Despite 'cultural belief' being worried and anxious won't cause miscarriage. But please do speak to someone if you need to about the anxiety....it's totally understandable given your past experiences!



You will find all the answers to your questions. The law is very clear. I am sure CS has an HR department that will need to handle the documentation correctly. RAV will also have their rules and they will know the law.


For now, I love the atittude of your partner. Relax. Absorb the news. Celebrate and start to prepare.


From the RAV point of view, it's best not to stop looking for work etc. You need to be insured - either you will be 'technically' insured for maternity leave by CS or by RAV - either way, keep looking for new options.


It seems that technically, by law, based on previous threads on the forum here...that your notice period will be suspended and you will stay employed by CS until the end of your pregnancy and the maternity leave period.


For the miscarriage scenario. Please don't dwell on it. It's no different than if you were not pregnant. You would work the notice period, register with RAV and look for a new job.



The most 'resilient' financial situation is where you can provide all your basic needs from the primary income, and for you to work when/how/wherever is best for you and your child/ren.



My advice is this:


- you can never have enough money to have children
- you can never be ready to have children


as for regrets ? We call them the 'what if's'...and that will happen regardless.


What you should not do right now is stop working by your own choice. If you are unwell, you get sick leave, including mental health issues....talk to your doctor. Otherwise, go to work as normal, deal with the physical health things as they come with the pregnancy, and sit back and enjoy the ride!


CONGRATULATIONS!!!
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Old 18.05.2020, 19:22
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

Thank you for your reply and kind wishes!

Somehow, I do not feel comfortable to discuss the 'what if miscarriage again' and the different scenarios with my HR and RAV.
That's why I hope to get some answers from here since the law is clear and some of you may know them.


a) According to my doctor, my pregnancy starts in mid of April (which is 0.5 months within my termination notice period). Since my 3-month notice period started in 01 April, does it mean that my remaining 2.5 months of termination automatically will resume immediately after 16 weeks of child birth?

b) I am aware that employees who are pregnant are not able to be terminated. If the pregnancy starts before the termination period, the employer has to reissue the termination letter again after childbirth because the previous termination letter is considered void. In my case, my employer does not need to give me another termination letter after my childbirth, since my pregnancy starts within the termination notice period? True?

c) I plan to inform my employer this week. If I have a miscarriage again (hopefully not!!!), will my remaining 2.5 months termination resume immediately after my doctor's report about the miscarriage? Or from 01 April?

d) No matter what happens to this pregnancy, my husband and I discussed and since I will be out of job, we will concentrate on building a small family as my age is catching up as well. I am also a bit concerned about financial circumstances if we proceed with this way. If I have miscarriage for this current pregnancy and we try to have baby again and if my future pregnancy starts within the period when I am with RAV, does my new pregnancy somehow prolong the period my RAV eligibility? I have been working 100 since 01 Sept 2018. Just an example for easier understanding, if I have miscarriage for this current pregnancy on 01 June 2020, how long is my entitlement for RAV since I work for 21 months only? If my future pregnancy starts in December 2020, how long will I be entitled for RAV?

I would be very grateful if someone here could kindly help to clear my worries.

Thanks a bunch!
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Old 18.05.2020, 20:20
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

Hi, no absolutely I would not discuss miscarriage with my employer. That's something to discuss with your doctor, midwife or a psychological therapist.


I am sure your employer has an HR department that you can notify about the pregnancy and they will need to check their legal obligations. Same with RAV.


If you were to miscarry, this will be handled as an illness. It would be covered by sick leave for whatever time you need to recover. The sick leave insurance varies depending on employer. They will let you know if you go into 'insurance' for sick leave. You also usually cannot give termination for someone on sick leave either, so if that happened, first thing would be to go to the doctor who would give you medical advice and also a sick leave certificate...for as long as is needed....and only after you are really 'well' would you go back to work to serve your notice period.


Sick leave is often 80% of actual salary, not 100%, you can check with your employer your actual entitlements etc...



I would absolutely not assume you will miscarry. If that happens, you can deal with it 'at that time' - for now...proceed as everything is healthy and normal, and continue with your current work (unless you are 'sick')...


I'm not 100% sure if they will need to issue a new termination of employment document after your maternity leave is completed... but the key is now to not sign anything without talking to an expert.



Whilst we on EF can be 'really helpful' most of us are not lawyers and you need to be careful...



Did you call the 'infodona' organisation I suggested ? They are the migrant women's advice service in zurich. I am sure they can help, either answering your questions directly, or refer you to the right organisation/expert.
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Old 18.05.2020, 21:14
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Re: Pregnancy during termination notice period

Below is a translation of possibly relevant paragraphs from a SECO leaflet "Maternity Protection of Female Employees" (linked below):

"c) Consequence
A termination notice issued during the exclusionary period (Sperrfrist) is null and void, i.e., it remains without effect. The employer must give further notice of termination after the end of the exclusionary period if he wishes to terminate the employment relationship, namely in compliance with the periods of notice. If the employer has given notice of termination before the start of the exclusionary period (i.e. before the employee was pregnant), on a date after the beginning of the pregnancy, the notice period is suspended for the entire exclusionary period and only continues to run after the end of the exclusionary period, i.e. from the 17th week after the birth (Art. 336c para. 2 CO). If the date of the thus postponed termination of the contract does not fall on a normal termination date (usually the end of the month), the end of the termination contract is automatically postponed to this date (Art. 336c para. 3 CO; see FAQ 18).

d) Non-applicability of protection
The protection against termination is not applicable in the following cases:
- if the contract is terminated without notice for good cause (Art. 337 et seq. OR);
- if the termination is received during the probationary period in the case of an existing pregnancy, even if the termination is made on a date after the end of this probationary period;
- if the parties terminate the employment relationship by agreement between the parties involved (see p. 18 et seq.);
- if the employment relationship is limited in time: such a contract ends with the expiry of the agreed contractual period without the need for termination.

2. Termination by the employee
The prohibition of dismissal is only valid for the employer. Pregnant women, women who have recently given birth and nursing mothers may terminate their employment at any time. However, they must observe the relevant statutory, contractual or collective employment contract notice periods and deadlines.
Termination of the contract by notice of termination or by mutual agreement on a date prior to childbirth means that the employee loses her entitlement to compensation for loss of earnings during maternity. She only retains her rights if the contract is terminated on a date after the birth.

3. Termination of contract by mutual agreement
There is also the possibility of early termination by agreement between the employee and the employer, even if the parties did not know at that time that the employee was pregnant. Such an agreement is only valid if it includes a mutual waiver of rights arising from the law or the employment contract or the law. It is highly advisable to make this agreement between the parties in writing in order to have evidence."

https://www.seco.admin.ch/dam/seco/d...z_07_14_de.pdf.

Please note that from the date of childbirth (and sometimes before depending on circumstances), maternity benefits for 16 weeks is provided by the government. Please see this brochure for more details (English):

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/6.02.e
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