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Old 18.05.2020, 20:33
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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From what I am looking at in terms of costs we would need to earn a min. of about 140,000 to even barely survive, what with costs to rent, car costs, food etc....is that realistic do you think? Higher or lower???
To answer this, in part: the standardised examples of family budgets given in the links posted by ASwissInTheUS, in post 4, above, are not considered "barely surviving" but as an okay-ish way to live, and many, many people live on budgets like this. Above that is considered going into luxury, while many, including quite a number on this forum, do indeed live on a far, far greater budget.

Here's a rather random list of the kinds of items which are probably not considered regular, normal, or freely available, or to be had just any time one wants without thinking twice, on the above budgets. Within each category, there are three budgets. In the lower one, such items are infrequent luxuries to be saved for. In the upper budget, such things become doable, occasionally, and there's more room to save for more of them.
Eating out several times a week, ordering in home-delivered food, family nights out at the movies with popcorn and drinks, paid babysitters, school-fees (i.e. children attend the free public schools), holidays in hotels in Switzerland, nail-studios, saunas, an extra vehicle for fun, any expensive hobby, keeping an expensive pet, new designer clothing (lots of very good second-hand shops and Brockenhäuser), extra education for adults, international flights, expensive furniture and decor, fancy electronics, collecting art or jewellery, expensive sports (and for those in the lower budgets a day skiing, including acquiring all the equipment, can count as this), supporting relatives.
Many families get by so much better once they've gotten their heads around second-hand. They shop at the Brockenhäuser (second-hand shops, some of which are charity shops) and buy (and sell!) their children's clothing, toys and sports equipment at special fairs/exchange days, typically held at a community centre or similar, or buy and sell on www.tutti.ch, www.anibis.ch and www.ricardo.ch. A friend of mine spent ten years during which she kitted out her three children with second-hand winter gear this way, while selling the set they'd outgrown, and her nett balance after a decade was + Fr. 50, and they never lacked for anything.
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Old 18.05.2020, 20:38
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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We're not talking about that, you stated


"I'm just working off the fact I earn a similar amount (a bit higher but not loads), have one child and pay Aargau taxes and rent , not Geneva.

The biggest expenses: food and rent

I'm not saying it's not doable, just that it's tight."


If indeed this is the case then you certainly have absolutely no clue at all about living here; I've been here for 35 years, i earn considerably more and can live very well on less than Chf 140k/year, food, rent, health insurance, car and all the other bollocks thrown in, family of 4


A lot of people live on far less and have a very nice life style.
Or .... I just have a different opinion to you. You've been here longer than I've been alive and I'm sure you know what you are talking about but this is a subjective as well as objective matter. I also don't feel the need to be as personal and rude as you, people are different.
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Old 18.05.2020, 20:40
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Aggressive arsehole alert.
You do know that a lot of people with families live on a lot less?
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Old 18.05.2020, 20:44
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

OP - this is another of your threads which I find honestly surprising considering you had lived here till only 7 years ago. You go systematically one area after another and keep asking our community: healthcare, education, jobs, pension...What research is this? If you lived here only 7 years ago, do you both have families and friends here that can reliably fill you in, knowing exactly your needs and situation? Where would you live? Language needs?

For your question, your jobs (if you both immediately find one to be both able to feed your 4 children) probably wouldn't be the most pressing of relocation worries. But how will it affect your pension scheme in NZ or CH? Are you able to see retiring in CH? Because that is something that you should be thinking about, both of you working, when and where to retire so you could be able to provide for yourself, not just raising your 4 kids until they are independent. Because nobody else will do it.
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Old 18.05.2020, 20:54
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Or .... I just have a different opinion to you. You've been here longer than I've been alive and I'm sure you know what you are talking about but this is a subjective as well as objective matter. I also don't feel the need to be as personal and rude as you, people are different.
My groan was for the rude personal attack in the original version of this post before you edited it.

There is no call for that.
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Old 18.05.2020, 20:55
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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OP - this is another of your threads which I find honestly surprising considering you had lived here till only 7 years ago. You go systematically one area after another and keep asking our community: healthcare, education, jobs, pension...What research is this?
It seems to me that the big, big difference, for OP, between now and when she lived here, only 7 years ago, is that she and her husband now have 4 children, and that was not the case when they last lived here, so she has to think the whole thing through from a completely different angle. Also, as she shared, she and her husband are not yet sure whether it could work, to return, or whether they agree about the idea.

As I read OP's threads, her research is quite systematic, ploughing her way through one aspect after another. And this community is a excellent resource, amongst others. Good for her!
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Old 18.05.2020, 21:16
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

I love salary threads.
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Old 18.05.2020, 21:18
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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i love salary threads.
us both.
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Old 18.05.2020, 21:37
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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My groan was for the rude personal attack in the original version of this post before you edited it.

There is no call for that.
I didn't start the rudeness - the other person did. However, yes I responded at first inappropriately and I shouldn't have done so. So yeah I deserved a groan.

I've had enough of personal attacks and aggressive language on here, and it's caused me to be snappy and aggressive in return which is unacceptable I totally accept. I'm leaving the forum at least for a bit - I think there's a lot of egos here like the person I responded to who throw their weight around and it's not something I react well to.

Last edited by jorido; 18.05.2020 at 21:49.
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Old 18.05.2020, 21:39
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Another thing to keep in mind is that kids seem to become more expensive as they become older -- needing/wanting more expensive toys, a laptop and phone of their own, university, braces, etc. Also, keep in mind the need to be able to save money.

As a side note, I really don't understand why some people are arguing in this thread. It's a shame that someone can't ask for some simple advice without the comments evolving into an argument.
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Old 18.05.2020, 21:53
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Or .... I just have a different opinion to you. You've been here longer than I've been alive and I'm sure you know what you are talking about but this is a subjective as well as objective matter. I also don't feel the need to be as personal and rude as you, people are different.
I do wonder what your location is- re pexpensive rents, etc. And how many different locations you have lived in in Switzerland- giving you some idea that what your experience re rents, and costs- can vary massively- even in small Switzerland and even in just one Canton, in this case, Vaud. Check prices in Montreux region, Lausanne region, the foot of the Jura, and the Jura itself- Chalk and cheese. The further you go from the Riviera, the better value you get, the larger appartments available as well as gardens.

Jorido- you do begin to sound familiar- so who were you in the previous 6 years? Or someone who knows.
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Old 18.05.2020, 21:58
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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I do wonder what your location is- re pexpensive rents, etc. And how many different locations you have lived in in Switzerland- giving you some idea that what your experience re rents, and costs- can vary massively- even in small Switzerland and even in just one Canton, in this case, Vaud. Check prices in Montreux region, Lausanne region, the foot of the Jura, and the Jura itself- Chalk and cheese. The further you go from the Riviera, the better value you get, the larger appartments available as well as gardens.

Jorido- you do begin to sound familiar- so who were you in the previous 6 years? Or someone who knows.
Nobody. I've only moved to Switzerland a few months ago. I've never had another account. Anyway - enjoy all - been nice knowing you. Take care and stay healthy. This is a fantastic resource and I'll continue to lurk.

Last edited by jorido; 18.05.2020 at 22:28.
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Old 19.05.2020, 10:44
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Hi, I can offer my 50 cents. Me, my Swiss Wife and 2 little ones are living in West Germany and checking job possibilities to go back to CH and obviously looking and asking and looking on budget needed to just "live" in a good place, until we have 2 Salaries.

So far what I found, that going back to some nice Family Flat of 4 Rooms in Stans (NW) for example, paying ca. 1000 Chf for Health Insurance, 1000 Chf Groceries, bring our Leased Skoda Karoq with us (300 Eur a Month) plus Fuel , Kids Courses and so on, we need 110K so we can just live. This is obviously without Vacations, without going out, Swiss attractions like Cable Car ect, Savings or any other "Extras". To have all these nice extras, I calculated we will need ca. 200K, which means once we both find a job this is our target. To be honest, I do not see how we do it with 4 Kids on 110K, seems to me pretty impossible, as I would roughly assume the extra 2 Kids mean extra Groceries, Clothing, Insurance, activities ect - of about at least 1000 Chf Netto monthly?

Hope I helped with something, feel free to contact me via PM. Good luck !
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Old 19.05.2020, 11:21
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Hi, I can offer my 50 cents. Me, my Swiss Wife and 2 little ones are living in West Germany and checking job possibilities to go back to CH and obviously looking and asking and looking on budget needed to just "live" in a good place, until we have 2 Salaries.

So far what I found, that going back to some nice Family Flat of 4 Rooms in Stans (NW) for example, paying ca. 1000 Chf for Health Insurance, 1000 Chf Groceries, bring our Leased Skoda Karoq with us (300 Eur a Month) plus Fuel , Kids Courses and so on, we need 110K so we can just live. This is obviously without Vacations, without going out, Swiss attractions like Cable Car ect, Savings or any other "Extras". To have all these nice extras, I calculated we will need ca. 200K, which means once we both find a job this is our target. To be honest, I do not see how we do it with 4 Kids on 110K, seems to me pretty impossible, as I would roughly assume the extra 2 Kids mean extra Groceries, Clothing, Insurance, activities ect - of about at least 1000 Chf Netto monthly?

Hope I helped with something, feel free to contact me via PM. Good luck !

That's total rubbish, how many families of 4 people who live in Switzerland, including expensive places rather than Stans earn a combined salary of Chf 200k, you are totally out of touch with reality.



Very few people in Pilatus earn this kind of money...
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Old 19.05.2020, 11:41
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Isn't the average salary in Zürich around 90k? And for the rest of Switzerland around 70k? If this is the case, how on earth do all these poor families manage?!

Seems to me either expats can't budget, or most of Switzerland is mired in deep poverty
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Old 19.05.2020, 11:45
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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So far what I found, that going back to some nice Family Flat of 4 Rooms in Stans (NW) for example, paying ca. 1000 Chf for Health Insurance, 1000 Chf Groceries, bring our Leased Skoda Karoq with us (300 Eur a Month) plus Fuel , Kids Courses and so on, we need 110K so we can just live. !
Err, even if you take your apparently huge brogery bill, that still works out to perhaps 4000 per month, max 5000 if you're renting somewhere incredibly expensive. Plus "fuel, kids courses and so on" but I can't see how that would bring you to double that amount.

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That's total rubbish, how many families of 4 people who live in Switzerland, including expensive places rather than Stans earn a combined salary of Chf 200k, you are totally out of touch with reality.

Very few people in Pilatus earn this kind of money...
That may be true, although I know several guys who work(ed) there (I'm assuming you're referring to the aircraft manufacturer) who were most certainly on more than that. Expats, on contracts, yes, or in other words typical EF members.

But anyway, it's been well established over many years that the EF poverty line is set at 120k/year. I do agree that a Family of 4 living could actually live on less than that, but certainly not at any sort of standard of living that I would personally deem acceptable.
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Old 19.05.2020, 11:58
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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That's total rubbish, how many families of 4 people who live in Switzerland, including expensive places rather than Stans earn a combined salary of Chf 200k, you are totally out of touch with reality.

Thanks for the Rubbish If I may ask, or maybe I explained wrong, I meant that if, for example me or my Wife find a Job now for 110K, then after a Year the other one finds one for 90K, what is wrong with the 200K figure?

Very few people in Pilatus earn this kind of money...
I actually know (Friends of Friends) some people there, and u r probably right, but as I mentioned above, I refer to 2 Salaries....
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Old 19.05.2020, 13:04
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

sometimes I would like to read some of those posts to local people here - and make them really laugh or get very angry
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Old 19.05.2020, 13:40
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

One reference here https://thepoorswiss.com/frugal-livi...stachian-post/
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Old 19.05.2020, 14:47
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Err, even if you take your apparently huge brogery bill, that still works out to perhaps 4000 per month, max 5000 if you're renting somewhere incredibly expensive. Plus "fuel, kids courses and so on" but I can't see how that would bring you to double that amount.



That may be true, although I know several guys who work(ed) there (I'm assuming you're referring to the aircraft manufacturer) who were most certainly on more than that. Expats, on contracts, yes, or in other words typical EF members.

But anyway, it's been well established over many years that the EF poverty line is set at 120k/year. I do agree that a Family of 4 living could actually live on less than that, but certainly not at any sort of standard of living that I would personally deem acceptable.
I have to make a short and quick comment on kids courses - it may come as a surprise but depending on which course it is (learning to play an instrument, sports or ballet classes etc) the price per semester can vary between 500 chf and 800 chf. Many kids have not only one but two or more hobbies, multiply by 4 in OP's case....and you'll get a more accurate picture. What if one of the kids needs a private school, I don't know their ages but they may also pay for play groups or kinderbetreuung etc I don't have the time and the will to approximate, but the total amount per year can be substantial.
Also, 1000 chf for food for 6...Sometimes you can easily surpass that if you're a family of 4....

I know, I know, people have different life styles, some are more calculated than others, some spend more on food and less on travelling or clothes, hobbies etc etc

Salaries threads are irritating not because the participants are fiercely disagreeing with each other, but I feel like OPs should do their homework alone, not helped by strangers on the internet who don't know much about their lifestyles or expectations etc. Plus there are tons of similar threads........
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