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  #61  
Old 19.05.2020, 17:45
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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I think you mean self employed people, unemployed people get child allowance just the same as other employed people.
Nope,

I actually ment what they call: "Nichterwerbstätigen"

Which includes a whole range of people from pensioners, widowers to world travellers.
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  #62  
Old 19.05.2020, 18:00
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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4 children. At least 5 room apartment. Minimum 3500-6000
ah well madness - the OP has no intention of living there though. Plenty of large apartments for families in the places I mentionned in Vaud (and many more) for a fraction of that. Just had a look - near us and nor far from Vaud- 1200.- 5.5 rooms, 2 bathrooms, garden, garage, parking, attic, cellar.

Last edited by Odile; 19.05.2020 at 18:11.
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  #63  
Old 19.05.2020, 18:03
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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And owning... Who on earth with 70K and 4 kids owns a house and actually can afford to maintain it? due to lack of money it would just rot away.
Absolutely no-one, unless they either inherited it or are coming here with a nice load of cash.

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Nope,

I actually ment what they call: "Nichterwerbstätigen"

Which includes a whole range of people from pensioners, widowers to world travellers.
Inactive.
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  #64  
Old 19.05.2020, 18:51
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Nope,

I actually ment what they call: "Nichterwerbstätigen"

Which includes a whole range of people from pensioners, widowers to world travellers.
Definitely not unemployed then, that term relates to people who are out of work but actively looking for a job.

Those people are what we would call not gainfully employed or economically inactive.
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  #65  
Old 19.05.2020, 19:14
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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He didn’t say comfortable, he said doable. There’s a difference between the two.
Yes, because that is clearly what the context of this thread is about... the ability to exist on the bare minimum of tolerable living standards with a family of 6. I am sure the OP would just love to come to Switzerland from another country with a comfortable lifestyle and have no money. That must be the goal, right?

From the OP:

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how much we would potentially need to be earning in order to have any kind of a "good" standard of living (not just barely surviving)...
Certain people in this thread have such low levels of common sense that I really am impressed that natural selection didn't pick them off a long time go.
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  #66  
Old 19.05.2020, 19:17
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Those people are what we would call not gainfully employed or economically inactive.
I think the first translation would be conceptually more accurate because even pensioners, rentiers? (is that an English word?) etc are in fact economically active. They even pay taxes.....
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  #67  
Old 19.05.2020, 19:31
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

In the meanwhile the median salary in CH is just some lame 187k. This is in line with the EF poverty line of 120k.

http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary...=210&loctype=1

Stop posting nonsense like a family living on 70k.

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  #68  
Old 19.05.2020, 19:46
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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In the meanwhile the median salary in CH is just some lame 187k. This is in line with the EF poverty line of 120k.

http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary...=210&loctype=1

Stop posting nonsense like a family living on 70k.

Would love to know the source of their data. Just to choose one hilarious number - median salary working for the government is CHF 199k.
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  #69  
Old 19.05.2020, 19:49
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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In the meanwhile the median salary in CH is just some lame 187k. This is in line with the EF poverty line of 120k.

http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary...=210&loctype=1

Stop posting nonsense like a family living on 70k.

I really really REALLY suspect that’s an automated site that uses no human interaction to calculate its figures. 50% of the population on more than 187,000chf ?
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Old 19.05.2020, 19:50
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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ah well madness - the OP has no intention of living there though. Plenty of large apartments for families in the places I mentionned in Vaud (and many more) for a fraction of that. Just had a look - near us and nor far from Vaud- 1200.- 5.5 rooms, 2 bathrooms, garden, garage, parking, attic, cellar.
Can you paste the link here? It sounds too good to be true unless it is a very old building with very small 5 rooms in a very remote place.

Last edited by DerDieDas; 19.05.2020 at 20:00.
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  #71  
Old 19.05.2020, 19:55
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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In the meanwhile the median salary in CH is just some lame 187k. This is in line with the EF poverty line of 120k.

http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary...=210&loctype=1

Stop posting nonsense like a family living on 70k.

Shouldn't tell others to not post nonsense while claiming the median Swiss salary is 187K..

Median Salary in Zürich is around 7K/Month.
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  #72  
Old 19.05.2020, 20:02
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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ah well madness - the OP has no intention of living there though. Plenty of large apartments for families in the places I mentionned in Vaud (and many more) for a fraction of that. Just had a look - near us and nor far from Vaud- 1200.- 5.5 rooms, 2 bathrooms, garden, garage, parking, attic, cellar.
Yes but nobody wants to live in no-mans-land
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  #73  
Old 19.05.2020, 20:03
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Shouldn't tell others to not post nonsense while claiming the median Swiss salary is 187K..

Median Salary in Zürich is around 7K/Month.
The site says 'A person working in Switzerland typically earns around 16,300 CHF per month'.

Not to mention:

Employees in Switzerland are likely to observe a salary increase of approximately 9% every 15 months

Where are these jobs, I wonder.
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Old 19.05.2020, 20:06
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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70k for a family of 6 would be at all comfortable? Really? You are so full of absolute and utter BS that it's actually painful to read your constantly egotistical, attention-seeking and generally factually incorrect posts.
70k brutto is ok for a family of 3. in Zürich
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  #75  
Old 19.05.2020, 20:10
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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70k brutto is ok for a family of 3. in Zürich
For a frugal family, yes. If we add another 3 children, 2 more rooms needed, 30-40% more food and clothes and the costs shoot up. Air travel and hotels become a distant dream.
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  #76  
Old 19.05.2020, 22:40
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

OP, I commend you for doing your research.

Perhaps some of the discussion on this thread has arisen because of your thread title: "Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vaud?", so some are supplying you with information about the survive part of your question, and others are focussing on the thrive part.

You do clarify, here, to some extent, and you're asking for - and getting, as I see it - realistic facts, both higher and lower.
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and we are having a hard time finding out realistic info about how much we would potentially need to be earning in order to have any kind of a "good" standard of living (not just barely surviving)...

....
Do any of you have any experience in Vaud with lots of kids and what your quality of life has been like if you aren't on a very generous salary? (ie. over 200,000

From what I am looking at in terms of costs we would need to earn a min. of about 140,000 to even barely survive, what with costs to rent, car costs, food etc....is that realistic do you think? Higher or lower???
The fact of the matter is that many families live carefully but reasonably on much less than Fr. 140'000 (an income they will never be privileged to achieve), and they're doing okay. No big leeway for luxuries, but they're trundling along, getting by. Of those, some families regard going for a free walk in the safe forest or taking a picnic for a day-trip using the local train network (adult with a season-ticket for work, children free because of a "Family Card") as a very substantial part of their high quality of life, but you may see that differently.

OP, perhaps you could clarify, here, what kinds of expenses are in your shopping basket, i.e. what – for you, your husband and the lifestyle you envisage for your children – would constitute what you call a “good” standard of living. Then at least we’d know what level you’re hoping to achieve, and perhaps you’d get more tailor-made advice.
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  #77  
Old 19.05.2020, 22:45
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

To get lots of views, you might like to work your way through this bumper thread, started by pinkpanter, who anticipated that their family income would be about Fr. 150'000 p.a., and asked what kind of lifestyle they'd be able to afford, on that.
https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-...l-we-have.html

Please don't be put off by the fact that the thread started in 2015. A lot of the facts and opinions there still hold, and as inflation is very low, the prices now may be slightly higher (particularly medical insurance) but are otherwise not drastically different.
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  #78  
Old 19.05.2020, 23:00
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Yes but nobody wants to live in no-mans-land
sometimes it is better not to reply. I can assure you, it can be an excellent choice- and the chance to have lots of space, small class sizes, fabulous countryside, great sport facilities, easy access to France and cheaper shopping, space for kids, dogs, horses- whatever. And a chance to buy too at amazing prices - but I am very happy you are not going to be my neighbour and you prefer concrete jungles lol.
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  #79  
Old 20.05.2020, 01:38
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Thanks to everyone who has posted helpful replies ;-)

I am a fanatic about researching before making any big decisions and since moving back home to Switzerland permanently certainly classes as a "BIG" decision for us, its been really helpful for me to gather as much info from the internet - ie. sites like all the ones suggested (and ones I have been searching myself) about costs, standards of living, etc...but all those are also just theoretical and its hard to actually gauge what is really doable since it often doesn't reflect the complexities of real life ;-)

So just wanted to hear from others who have made it work on various levels with kids etc...

We don't expect a "fancy" lifestyle - we have always been pretty frugal - ie. don't eat out much at all, and if so pretty budget, have never really gone on paid vacations, do minimal family outings that cost a lot - we do a lot of walking, picnics, beach, etc... but as the kids get older we would like to do more with them and also explore Switzerland if we move back and not have to be so tight with all our budgeting - so as to enjoy living there. So it was my intention to figure out what would be a realistic "living" amount to kind of use as a baseline - ie. don't accept a job offer for less than or it will cause us to be in the same tight situation where its just not that fun ;-)

Its a big decision to move back due to the current economy, kids schooling and all kinds of other things - kids will be needing braces, we have one that might need additional school support due to ADHD etc... so salary is just one consideration (MUSICCHICK pointed out I have been posting a lot of questions on the forum lately!) and I don't want to make the jump and regret not having found out as much as I could about what to expect and then be shocked at the prices/difficulty in being able to do what we would like to/need to do to enjoy being back there again.

Main reason for wanting to move home is that it is home. We want the kids to grow up there, and for us to retire there, we have family connections and extended family have a small holiday home in Italy just over the border, and husband and I have lots of friends in Germany/Switzerland, and to be quite frank, we are tired of living so far away (past 7 years in NZ/Aus) and just want to be back in the midst of life there...but worry about the implications of moving back and whether its worth it or not at this stage, given all the challenges that I am sure we will face, even though we really really want to... so salary questions are just one part to the whole equation of "COULD" we make it work there or not....

Thanks for all your helpful comments - and for those who just can't help themselves and want to pick arguments/spar on the forum...please refrain from using this thread for that...I'm sure there is a "room for an argument" somewhere on the forum if you feel like you need to vent ;-) (Monty Python anyone??) Enjoy ;-)

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Old 20.05.2020, 02:34
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Another approach to this, from a different angle, could be to mentally walk your family through a day, a week, a month. Think of the activities of each person in terms of time, money, effort, networks, help from official places, possibly help from family.

For example, if your husband works, and you're a full-time stay-at-home mother, then think through
  • how he packs his lunch (or will he buy it at the canteen?),
  • how he travels to work (on a monthly or annual public transport card, or by car?),
  • change baby's diapers (disposable, re-usable, cost)
  • your getting the children ready for school (cost of clothes and shoes, packing school materials you've bought, sports gear possibly second-hand, attend free, local government schools?),
  • the children walking to school (free) or travelling by bus (a school bus-ticket) or each family having some sort of annual pass (research Family Pass and individual annual passes for adults and children in the same home, on CFF.ch) or bicycle (cost of second-hand purchase, and occasional maintenance), or your driving them (not common in Switzerland, unless you live very rurally, cost of owning and running a car).
  • taking sick child to doctor (medical insurance for all, franchise)
  • going to the hairdresser (cost, or cut your own hair? all family members?)
  • work in the garden (for prices, see garden centres online, grow vegetables?)
  • cook lunch for all children coming home

I'm sure you get the gist of what I mean. Try to you watch what you are all doing as you live now, for a day, a week, a month (including things you don't do every day, like go to the doctor and dentist, and out to movies), and itemise the costs, and then transfer those into a Swiss budget.

You already know that some costs here are lower, e.g. children walk to school for free, whereas in some countries you'd need to drive them there, and others may be higher, such as dentistry.

Perhaps such an exercise would help you and your husband identify which items are the extras-over-and-above basics. What makes you happy, where you are now? What gets you down? Then, weigh those up against your wanting to come home.

For example:
  • If you can, now, afford to go to the movies as a couple (cost of tickets, transport and cost of babysitter) but then you calculate that in Switzerland, that would have to become a very rare (or more expensive) event... would that be strong enough to make it better to live where you are now, than to return to Switzerland? In that example, probably not.
  • If you now can afford a huge sprawling house with a swimming-pool, three cars, three dogs and a horse... well, that might be hard to leave behind, knowing that it may not be possible here, unless you live very remotely. Or it might be a relief to get away from having to maintain that home, and back into a well-run Swiss apartment with a caretaker who just deals with things.
In other words, manage your expectations by knowing what you may have to give up if you move here. And what you will gain, such as free schooling, good public transport, etc.
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