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  #101  
Old 21.05.2020, 21:23
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Oops sorry, for some reason I thought they were moving to the Swiss German parts.
I'm still surprised by the fact that a Swiss needs info and opinions on EF.

If I wanted to go back "home" (home is never how you left it, neither people that made home - home) I'd ask my relatives. Or friends. We live in an incredibly impersonal world, where online opinions and discussions play so much role.

OK, corona time...we all have excuses.
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  #102  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:13
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Very interesting topic and would like to add my 2cts. We are a famiy of 3 (with one tiny toddler) and on my single salary of just below $200k gross I am at two minds. We definitely are not struggling but not feeling as comfortable as I should with this salary. We moved here from Asia and with the same salary we never ever looked at any of our expenses and still saved well over 50% of our income.

Switzerland is much much more expensive. We are not eating out - too much trouble with a toddler anyways - don't have a car, shop at Aldi even and yet only barely save 3k a month. Am I crazy for complaining?
Here is our breakdown in case it helps with your decisions.


income: 16,000
expenses:
mandatory deductions: 1,000 (eg AHV, UVG, UVGZ, etc.)
health insurance (for 3): 600
taxes: 2,500
rent: 2,800
public transport: 200
pension: 4,500
food: 650
clothes: 200
phone/internet/tv: 90
insurance: 140
leftovers: ~3,200


Notes: I think we should buy a house once we have the downpayment saved as rents are crazy
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  #103  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:16
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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I'm still surprised by the fact that a Swiss needs info and opinions on EF.

If I wanted to go back "home" (home is never how you left it, neither people that made home - home) I'd ask my relatives. Or friends. We live in an incredibly impersonal world, where online opinions and discussions play so much role.

OK, corona time...we all have excuses.
I understand that a Swiss person currently living in an English-speaking country would ask on this forum. If I were returning to a country where I'd lived before, I'd find it very helpful to speak to people who have moved to that country, rather than just the locals who've never lived elsewhere. An outsider sees things in a different way.

OP is trying to look at things from all sides. She knows that, on this forum, she's dealing with immigrants, as she will now be, emotionally, to some extent, and certainly in her shifted perspective (precisely because, as you say, home is never how you left it) whereas her Swiss friends, if she still has contact with them after so many years away, are locals who may never have lived anywhere else.

Also, she herself is changed, now being a mother of four, which she was not while she lived here in Switzerland.

Besides, she sounds diligent and very rational, so I expect that she's asking her local friends and relations, as well ask asking here on EF. She knows that they just won't be able to understand, in quite the same way as folks on this forum could, what it means to uproot from an English-speaking country, and start from scratch afresh, in Switzerland.
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  #104  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:25
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Very interesting topic and would like to add my 2cts. We are a famiy of 3 (with one tiny toddler) and on my single salary of just below $200k gross I am at two minds. We definitely are not struggling but not feeling as comfortable as I should with this salary. We moved here from Asia and with the same salary we never ever looked at any of our expenses and still saved well over 50% of our income.

Switzerland is much much more expensive. We are not eating out - too much trouble with a toddler anyways - don't have a car, shop at Aldi even and yet only barely save 3k a month. Am I crazy for complaining?
Here is our breakdown in case it helps with your decisions.


income: 16,000
expenses:
mandatory deductions: 1,000 (eg AHV, UVG, UVGZ, etc.)
health insurance (for 3): 600
taxes: 2,500
rent: 2,800
public transport: 200
pension: 4,500
food: 650
clothes: 200
phone/internet/tv: 90
insurance: 140
leftovers: ~3,200


Notes: I think we should buy a house once we have the downpayment saved as rents are crazy
Rent
It might be that you're living in a higher rental place than you need to. Having said that, I appreciate that you might like to live in a really nice apartment, and that it is, in any case, not easy to get any apartment at all, and if one wants a lower rent one has to keep looking, a lot, or get lucky.
To compare:
https://www.homegate.ch/rent/apartme...g=2500&ah=3000
Rent apartment in Zürich, in the rental segment between Fr. 2'500 and Fr. 3'000.

Last edited by doropfiz; 21.05.2020 at 23:10.
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  #105  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:29
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

SFr200K? I had no idea such poverty existed.
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  #106  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:36
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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yet only barely save 3k a month. Am I crazy for complaining?
Savings
The amount you are managing to save, each month, is almost as much as the gross monthly full-time salary of a worker at the lowest level of nuring qualification, and about 75% of the gross monthly full-time salary of a properly qualified nurse.
https://pflege-berufe.ch/lohn-fage

and about 60% of what a painter, plumber, driver, baker or caretaker earns, gross, per month, full-time:
https://www.lohncomputer.ch/de/loehne/
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  #107  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:44
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Very interesting topic and would like to add my 2cts. We are a famiy of 3 (with one tiny toddler) and on my single salary of just below $200k gross I am at two minds. We definitely are not struggling but not feeling as comfortable as I should with this salary. We moved here from Asia and with the same salary we never ever looked at any of our expenses and still saved well over 50% of our income.

Switzerland is much much more expensive. We are not eating out - too much trouble with a toddler anyways - don't have a car, shop at Aldi even and yet only barely save 3k a month. Am I crazy for complaining?
Here is our breakdown in case it helps with your decisions.


income: 16,000
expenses:
mandatory deductions: 1,000 (eg AHV, UVG, UVGZ, etc.)
health insurance (for 3): 600
taxes: 2,500
rent: 2,800
public transport: 200
pension: 4,500
food: 650
clothes: 200
phone/internet/tv: 90
insurance: 140
leftovers: ~3,200


Notes: I think we should buy a house once we have the downpayment saved as rents are crazy
You must be joking...

Ps, complaining that you only can save 3.000,- while putting 4.500,- a month into pension HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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  #108  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:55
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Very interesting topic and would like to add my 2cts. We are a famiy of 3 (with one tiny toddler) and on my single salary of just below $200k gross I am at two minds. We definitely are not struggling but not feeling as comfortable as I should with this salary. We moved here from Asia and with the same salary we never ever looked at any of our expenses and still saved well over 50% of our income.

Switzerland is much much more expensive. We are not eating out - too much trouble with a toddler anyways - don't have a car, shop at Aldi even and yet only barely save 3k a month. Am I crazy for complaining?
Here is our breakdown in case it helps with your decisions.


income: 16,000
expenses:
mandatory deductions: 1,000 (eg AHV, UVG, UVGZ, etc.)
health insurance (for 3): 600
taxes: 2,500
rent: 2,800
public transport: 200
pension: 4,500
food: 650
clothes: 200
phone/internet/tv: 90
insurance: 140
leftovers: ~3,200


Notes: I think we should buy a house once we have the downpayment saved as rents are crazy
25% pension contribution?
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  #109  
Old 21.05.2020, 23:10
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Pension
Could you please clarify something about your mandatory deductions (where you do not mention a pension scheme, although, with few exceptions, it is mandatory) and the pension insurance you mention much further down in your list: are these, for you, separate items?
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  #110  
Old 22.05.2020, 07:30
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Pension
Could you please clarify something about your mandatory deductions (where you do not mention a pension scheme, although, with few exceptions, it is mandatory) and the pension insurance you mention much further down in your list: are these, for you, separate items?
This. People don't talk about pension plans that often, but they should.....they really should.

And then health insurance. 6 members of a family, albeit 4 of them are still underaged, it's going to be a loooot. Did someone else mention dentists? Swiss dentists? 4 kids could mean at least 2 or 3 orthodontic treatments. I don't want to scare OP off, but she'll have to take that into consideration too.

Where I come from, some decades ago these types of treatments weren't that common, unless you had a more serious problem. OH had to do it in his late 30s here, imagine that. It's at least 15k for adults, if you don't count dentist visits. It's cheaper for children of course, depending which type of treatment you choose. But oh boy, how expensive these dental treatments are. They'll have free dentist visits for kids under 18 though. I'm not sure that fixing your problems in France is always an option, as it implies a lot of....logistic. She should be planning her expenses for CH imho, not for shopping over border (see corona time), not fixing teeth over in Fr, Ge. Budget for here.

She's used to live in a large house over there, would she be happy to downsize? I personally never lived in a huge house so for me it was simple, but have seen many folks here complaining a lot. Living in a large family house is a dream here, unless you move to a more remote place and then the schools and the kids courses etc over there can be Ok, or can Not. For your needs at least. Or you're willing to part with a large amount of money, in case you actually have that disposable income.

Last edited by greenmount; 22.05.2020 at 07:42.
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  #111  
Old 22.05.2020, 08:33
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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25% pension contribution?
Maybe a voluntary contribution or it includes the employer part.
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  #112  
Old 22.05.2020, 08:44
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Maybe a voluntary contribution or it includes the employer part.
Or maybe both.
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  #113  
Old 22.05.2020, 09:02
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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If one earns 60K and the other 70K they have net combined about a 100K if that ain't enough for above average life in Germany than those people are idiots.
Actually, according to these Figures, the Netto combined is ca. 72,000 EUR, not 100,000.
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  #114  
Old 22.05.2020, 09:14
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Actually, according to these Figures, the Netto combined is ca. 72,000 EUR, not 100,000.
Don't know for what country you calculated but it for certain ain't Germany.
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  #115  
Old 22.05.2020, 09:20
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Actually, according to these Figures, the Netto combined is ca. 72,000 EUR, not 100,000.
And even that is a lot more than the majority of people in Germany earn......
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  #116  
Old 22.05.2020, 09:39
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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This. People don't talk about pension plans that often, but they should.....they really should.

And then health insurance. 6 members of a family, albeit 4 of them are still underaged, it's going to be a loooot. Did someone else mention dentists? Swiss dentists? 4 kids could mean at least 2 or 3 orthodontic treatments. I don't want to scare OP off, but she'll have to take that into consideration too.

Where I come from, some decades ago these types of treatments weren't that common, unless you had a more serious problem. OH had to do it in his late 30s here, imagine that. It's at least 15k for adults, if you don't count dentist visits. It's cheaper for children of course, depending which type of treatment you choose. But oh boy, how expensive these dental treatments are. They'll have free dentist visits for kids under 18 though. I'm not sure that fixing your problems in France is always an option, as it implies a lot of....logistic. She should be planning her expenses for CH imho, not for shopping over border (see corona time), not fixing teeth over in Fr, Ge. Budget for here.
These are the type of things that asking in here could be useful for.

Pension planning is important.

Family members who have lived all their life in Switzerland, who had their children before orthodontic work became a big thing etc may not think of such things. There are lots of things that people moving here need to think about that locals wouldn’t even consider.

The health insurance premiums for the kids will be pretty cheap until they reach 18. The OP should definitely get orthodontic cover for the kids while they are still very young. It is very cheap and the kids will be accepted without dental checks up to a certain age (the age varies depending on the insurance company).

They should also get junior travel cards for the kids who are old enough to have today on public transport. For 30chf per year they’ll be able to travel free on public transport in Switzerland as long as they are accompanied by one of their parents.
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  #117  
Old 22.05.2020, 10:44
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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You must be joking...

Ps, complaining that you only can save 3.000,- while putting 4.500,- a month into pension HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I noticed the same. What is 'pension-4500 chf'? Who puts that much into 2nd pillar?
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  #118  
Old 22.05.2020, 11:31
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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I noticed the same. What is 'pension-4500 chf'? Who puts that much into 2nd pillar?
Oh I can see people putting so much in if they can afford to do so, but I've never met somebody who does so and than complains about only being able to save 3K
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  #119  
Old 22.05.2020, 11:57
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Oh I can see people putting so much in if they can afford to do so, but I've never met somebody who does so and than complains about only being able to save 3K
Their budget seems to be very much about planning for the future rather than enjoying the here and now.

I’m all for future planning but I think there needs to be some balance. It’s all very well saving for a nice retirement but not if it means living a miserable life to get there.
Their food budget seems pretty low to me for example but we’re all different and we prioritise different things.
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  #120  
Old 22.05.2020, 12:16
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

It could be that OP's husband is reluctant to move back to CH because he knows the stress that awaits for one breadwinner with 4 small children and a stay at home partner. I think outside of CH you can swing it and actually get to see them, feel like you have a family. Here it will be tough.
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