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Old 18.05.2020, 11:21
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Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vaud?

Hi,

We are contemplating moving back to Switzerland (we are both Swiss, but have lived out of the country for the past 7 years, and 4 kids later...

and we are having a hard time finding out realistic info about how much we would potentially need to be earning in order to have any kind of a "good" standard of living (not just barely surviving)...

Does anyone know of any good websites or calculators where you can calculate how much we would need to earn to successfully live there again? When we left my husband had a pretty good salary, he's in IT and would now be at a senior level manager level - we would be looking at jobs for him in the Geneva area...

Its something that is a very sticky point of discussion between us, as I really want to move back, but he is concerned its going to be much more expensive to live there than we think, now with 4 kids...so we are weighing up pros and cons....

Do any of you have any experience in Vaud with lots of kids and what your quality of life has been like if you aren't on a very generous salary? (ie. over 200,000


From what I am looking at in terms of costs we would need to earn a min. of about 140,000 to even barely survive, what with costs to rent, car costs, food etc....is that realistic do you think? Higher or lower???
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Old 18.05.2020, 11:38
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

There are hundreds of threads on here about cost of living, cost of child care (if relevant) etc.

You lived here seven years ago. The only thing that will have changed in price much is real estate. Happily that is easy to research, either buying or renting, on Homegate.

Everyone's idea of surviving/thriving is different.
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Old 18.05.2020, 11:48
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

You could always compromise & live over the border in France if you wanted to keep costs down?
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Old 18.05.2020, 11:55
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

http://www.budgetberatung.ch/
http://www.budgetberatung.ch/Familienbudget.75.0.html
Covers income bellow the EF poverty level (CHF 120k).
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Old 18.05.2020, 12:11
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Hi!

Don't think any calculator will do the job with the many variables.

Why don't you start with your budget in NZ and your items there and put a column with the Swiss costs?

It is tedious but then you are really looking at your items

Cost elemenets like schooling, tax etc can be researched or you can ask specific.

You can also have a look at Numbeo or Expatistan who will give you a rough idea of "how much should I earn in CH for same standard of life that I have in NZ earning X" - very rough guides especially when school is concerned but at least a guide.

How old are the kids? That will influence massively in terms of school cost (local Vs private)

K
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Old 18.05.2020, 13:52
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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You could always compromise & live over the border in France if you wanted to keep costs down?
I’m not certain that is always the case. I’ve heard (yes, hearsay) that the most expensive region to live in France is the Pays de Gex.

French taxes are higher than Swiss. Something also overlooked is the succession rules. As a French Resident the French expect their rules to apply, while the Swiss expect their rules to apply if you are Swiss and working in Switzerland.
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Old 18.05.2020, 13:05
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Hi,

We are contemplating moving back to Switzerland (we are both Swiss, but have lived out of the country for the past 7 years, and 4 kids later...

and we are having a hard time finding out realistic info about how much we would potentially need to be earning in order to have any kind of a "good" standard of living (not just barely surviving)...

Does anyone know of any good websites or calculators where you can calculate how much we would need to earn to successfully live there again? When we left my husband had a pretty good salary, he's in IT and would now be at a senior level manager level - we would be looking at jobs for him in the Geneva area...

Its something that is a very sticky point of discussion between us, as I really want to move back, but he is concerned its going to be much more expensive to live there than we think, now with 4 kids...so we are weighing up pros and cons....

Do any of you have any experience in Vaud with lots of kids and what your quality of life has been like if you aren't on a very generous salary? (ie. over 200,000


From what I am looking at in terms of costs we would need to earn a min. of about 140,000 to even barely survive, what with costs to rent, car costs, food etc....is that realistic do you think? Higher or lower???
Expenses are always subjective and depend on your choices of location and options. I think you can survive well in that salary with 4 kids.
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Old 18.05.2020, 13:30
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Hi,

We are contemplating moving back to Switzerland (we are both Swiss, but have lived out of the country for the past 7 years, and 4 kids later...

and we are having a hard time finding out realistic info about how much we would potentially need to be earning in order to have any kind of a "good" standard of living (not just barely surviving)...

Does anyone know of any good websites or calculators where you can calculate how much we would need to earn to successfully live there again? When we left my husband had a pretty good salary, he's in IT and would now be at a senior level manager level - we would be looking at jobs for him in the Geneva area...

Its something that is a very sticky point of discussion between us, as I really want to move back, but he is concerned its going to be much more expensive to live there than we think, now with 4 kids...so we are weighing up pros and cons....

Do any of you have any experience in Vaud with lots of kids and what your quality of life has been like if you aren't on a very generous salary? (ie. over 200,000


From what I am looking at in terms of costs we would need to earn a min. of about 140,000 to even barely survive, what with costs to rent, car costs, food etc....is that realistic do you think? Higher or lower???
In my view a sole salary of 140k would be barely doable in Geneva with a family of 6 - you'd probably be better off living over the border in France where you could house your large family more cheaply.
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Old 18.05.2020, 14:41
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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In my view a sole salary of 140k would be barely doable in Geneva with a family of 6 - you'd probably be better off living over the border in France where you could house your large family more cheaply.
How would you break down that 140k, for a family of 6 in Geneva, please? Which expenses do you think most contribute to making it "barely doable"?
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Old 18.05.2020, 15:08
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Also take into account his income will be taxed but you will also receive a tax credit (allowance) for your children.
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Old 18.05.2020, 17:03
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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How would you break down that 140k, for a family of 6 in Geneva, please? Which expenses do you think most contribute to making it "barely doable"?
I'm just working off the fact I earn a similar amount (a bit higher but not loads), have one child and pay Aargau taxes and rent , not Geneva.

The biggest expenses: food and rent

I'm not saying it's not doable, just that it's tight.
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Old 18.05.2020, 18:04
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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I'm just working off the fact I earn a similar amount (a bit higher but not loads), have one child and pay Aargau taxes and rent , not Geneva.

The biggest expenses: food and rent

I'm not saying it's not doable, just that it's tight.



Tight on Chf 140k plus..............


You really have no clue about anything if this really is the case
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Old 18.05.2020, 18:21
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Tight on Chf 140k plus..............


You really have no clue about anything if this really is the case
140k with 4 kids and expensive rent in a place big enough fit everyone while still maintaining a comfortable lifestyle? Yes, it could be tight by Swiss standards with not much money saved per month.

I think it should be obvious that when people talk about "living on that kind of money", that they do not mean actually being able to exist and put food on the table, but also able to maintain a quality of life that they are used to and without taking a significant step down in their financial freedoms.

I think that by applying a bit of context and emotional intelligence you can (probably) figure that out.

Last edited by Chuff; 19.05.2020 at 13:02.
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Old 18.05.2020, 18:53
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Tight on Chf 140k plus..............

You really have no clue about anything if this really is the case
I'm imagining you as one of the Yorkshire men from that monty python sketch...

Have you worked out what rent, food and health insurance is for 6 in Geneva, not to mention the expense in keeping children stimulated. A single person- yes you will be wealthy on that income, even in Geneva. Between 6 it's not going to go far. That's 23k CHF each - think of it like that.

We are talking children sharing bedrooms, shopping at Lidl, running an old banger. Perfectly possible and perfectly doable but it's not going to be luxurious.

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Old 18.05.2020, 18:28
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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The biggest expenses: food and rent.
And health insurance.
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Old 18.05.2020, 20:33
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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From what I am looking at in terms of costs we would need to earn a min. of about 140,000 to even barely survive, what with costs to rent, car costs, food etc....is that realistic do you think? Higher or lower???
To answer this, in part: the standardised examples of family budgets given in the links posted by ASwissInTheUS, in post 4, above, are not considered "barely surviving" but as an okay-ish way to live, and many, many people live on budgets like this. Above that is considered going into luxury, while many, including quite a number on this forum, do indeed live on a far, far greater budget.

Here's a rather random list of the kinds of items which are probably not considered regular, normal, or freely available, or to be had just any time one wants without thinking twice, on the above budgets. Within each category, there are three budgets. In the lower one, such items are infrequent luxuries to be saved for. In the upper budget, such things become doable, occasionally, and there's more room to save for more of them.
Eating out several times a week, ordering in home-delivered food, family nights out at the movies with popcorn and drinks, paid babysitters, school-fees (i.e. children attend the free public schools), holidays in hotels in Switzerland, nail-studios, saunas, an extra vehicle for fun, any expensive hobby, keeping an expensive pet, new designer clothing (lots of very good second-hand shops and Brockenhäuser), extra education for adults, international flights, expensive furniture and decor, fancy electronics, collecting art or jewellery, expensive sports (and for those in the lower budgets a day skiing, including acquiring all the equipment, can count as this), supporting relatives.
Many families get by so much better once they've gotten their heads around second-hand. They shop at the Brockenhäuser (second-hand shops, some of which are charity shops) and buy (and sell!) their children's clothing, toys and sports equipment at special fairs/exchange days, typically held at a community centre or similar, or buy and sell on www.tutti.ch, www.anibis.ch and www.ricardo.ch. A friend of mine spent ten years during which she kitted out her three children with second-hand winter gear this way, while selling the set they'd outgrown, and her nett balance after a decade was + Fr. 50, and they never lacked for anything.
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Old 19.05.2020, 10:44
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Hi, I can offer my 50 cents. Me, my Swiss Wife and 2 little ones are living in West Germany and checking job possibilities to go back to CH and obviously looking and asking and looking on budget needed to just "live" in a good place, until we have 2 Salaries.

So far what I found, that going back to some nice Family Flat of 4 Rooms in Stans (NW) for example, paying ca. 1000 Chf for Health Insurance, 1000 Chf Groceries, bring our Leased Skoda Karoq with us (300 Eur a Month) plus Fuel , Kids Courses and so on, we need 110K so we can just live. This is obviously without Vacations, without going out, Swiss attractions like Cable Car ect, Savings or any other "Extras". To have all these nice extras, I calculated we will need ca. 200K, which means once we both find a job this is our target. To be honest, I do not see how we do it with 4 Kids on 110K, seems to me pretty impossible, as I would roughly assume the extra 2 Kids mean extra Groceries, Clothing, Insurance, activities ect - of about at least 1000 Chf Netto monthly?

Hope I helped with something, feel free to contact me via PM. Good luck !
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Old 19.05.2020, 11:21
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Hi, I can offer my 50 cents. Me, my Swiss Wife and 2 little ones are living in West Germany and checking job possibilities to go back to CH and obviously looking and asking and looking on budget needed to just "live" in a good place, until we have 2 Salaries.

So far what I found, that going back to some nice Family Flat of 4 Rooms in Stans (NW) for example, paying ca. 1000 Chf for Health Insurance, 1000 Chf Groceries, bring our Leased Skoda Karoq with us (300 Eur a Month) plus Fuel , Kids Courses and so on, we need 110K so we can just live. This is obviously without Vacations, without going out, Swiss attractions like Cable Car ect, Savings or any other "Extras". To have all these nice extras, I calculated we will need ca. 200K, which means once we both find a job this is our target. To be honest, I do not see how we do it with 4 Kids on 110K, seems to me pretty impossible, as I would roughly assume the extra 2 Kids mean extra Groceries, Clothing, Insurance, activities ect - of about at least 1000 Chf Netto monthly?

Hope I helped with something, feel free to contact me via PM. Good luck !

That's total rubbish, how many families of 4 people who live in Switzerland, including expensive places rather than Stans earn a combined salary of Chf 200k, you are totally out of touch with reality.



Very few people in Pilatus earn this kind of money...
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Old 19.05.2020, 11:41
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

Isn't the average salary in Zürich around 90k? And for the rest of Switzerland around 70k? If this is the case, how on earth do all these poor families manage?!

Seems to me either expats can't budget, or most of Switzerland is mired in deep poverty
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Old 20.05.2020, 21:24
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Re: Finding out minimum salary needed to survive/thrive for family with 4 kids in Vau

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Isn't the average salary in Zürich around 90k? And for the rest of Switzerland around 70k? If this is the case, how on earth do all these poor families manage?!

Seems to me either expats can't budget, or most of Switzerland is mired in deep poverty
I am not sure this is always correct. Also here in DE many locals live on lower Salaries than most Expats and still many Families I know who live in one of the bigger Cities in so called "better" areas for Families - earn combined Salaries of ca. 130K EUR and is not enough to have above average Life.
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