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  #21  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:05
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

Nothing is perfect.

I work here for 9 years (making more than 15 years of carreer) and if i decide to go for a break i need to receive RAV here.

I would be more than happy to make a different deal: You give me 6 months of RAV and i disappear

Back to my country (car paid, flat paid) and doing some upskilling.

Unfortunately unemployment benefits are country dependent.
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  #22  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:22
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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The point is that taking this money influences the job searchers ambitions and makes them too selective for their next job - leading them to stay out of work for longer, in which for some cases it might eventually be too late for them. 2 years is an incredibly long time for someone that had a career.
The point is that you are absolutely clueless on this topic! You keep banging on about two years as if it was a mandatory period rather than the maximum period and ignore the basic fact that people need money to finance their family situation while seeking a new position.

Highly opinionated and lacking experience your opinion is about as useful as a chocolate teapot!
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  #23  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:28
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

One question: Why 2 years? Over than 50 years?

I thought if i go to RAV (39 years and Portuguese (C Permit)) it is 12 months.
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  #24  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:36
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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......I am highly in favor of universal basic income, i think people should have the right to choose not to work (but still have food and shelter). I once read that in my native Holland, the cost of government administration for all kinds of benefits is so high, abolishing this would pay for a UBI.
Ahh, but now you're on a totally different subject.
Universal basic income could work. A friend of mine promoted that 10 years ago already. Back then I did not share his views.

A basic "income" for everybody could most likely - at least for the biggest part - be financed by saving all the costs there are now for RAV, unemployment insurance (not the same thing ), social security, "Zusatzleistungen", disability benefits etc. etc. All the different things they invented to keep people alive and in the social system. All incredibly difficult for most recipients to understand.

Everybody getting a basic amount, that's what you get, if you want more go out and work. Being able to work/earn as much as one wants without the basic amount being discussed/withdrawn.
It would be much more "human". It would be fair. It would be transparent.
Yes, it would support the parasites. But it would stop exposing and belittling the people who have real reasons to need it. There will still be the rich and the poor but the poor wouldn't have to go beg - or in a "civilized" society we like to call it justify the need every month.

If one worries about job losses: There is absolutely nothing more boring and depressing than working as a social worker in a situation where nothing can be achieved, nothing can be improved, all there is to do is figure out which amount which person is entitled to receive. I dropped it the moment my job became that way.
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  #25  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:40
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

I signed into RAV several times over my career and never really been asked about it.

What you do asked when/if you get an interview is what your doing now, with the wrong answer is claiming Chomage.

The biggest mistake I made on chomage is to focus on job hunting, don't do that. Focus on making yourself more valuable, do the job hunting on the side. When a potential employer asks what you been doing, tell him about the things you been doing to make yourself more valuable, he isn't interested in Chomage or the other companies you applied for.

What sort of things, signup to linkedin learning and take your pick. Signup to some migros courses if you cannot find online stuff. Start a blog, a website, become a medium writer. Try and use your time to be creative so that you have a good story to tell, things to show for your time when you get the next job.
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  #26  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:41
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

I think this will go long way before any conclusion.

In Switzerland i met more than i imagine people that do not want to have kids or want to be alone (not married).

In that case you do not need a job if you are single child. You inherit the flat, you have your parents salary and you can live with them.

I predict this will happen a lot. The statistiscs says switzerland will have 30% plus people over 65 in 2050.
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  #27  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:12
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

You are not exploiting the system if you have paid into it for years while working and then utilize it when somebody decides to stop paying you. I have luckily never had to go on RAV, but its existence puts my mind at incredible ease. In my country you would be SOL when laid off.
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  #28  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:15
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

yes you are cause you start with the idea to stay for the max duration of 2 years and don't use ist as intended, say as long as you don't find work.
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  #29  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:19
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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The point is that you are absolutely clueless on this topic! You keep banging on about two years as if it was a mandatory period rather than the maximum period and ignore the basic fact that people need money to finance their family situation while seeking a new position.

Highly opinionated and lacking experience your opinion is about as useful as a chocolate teapot!
Well, my acquaintances left it too long and now they cannot find work.
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  #30  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:24
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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I am highly in favor of universal basic income, i think people should have the right to choose not to work (but still have food and shelter). I once read that in my native Holland, the cost of government administration for all kinds of benefits is so high, abolishing this would pay for a UBI.
I'd be happy with that as long as they take the administration funds as a pot and distribute that to those qualifying. I'm guessing when the wages of the former administration employees are shared out by the entire country, it's probably not really going to be enough for much... maybe better to spend that only on those who need it (e.g. those that don't have a job for a start...)
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  #31  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:26
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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A lot depends on what you do during your chomage.

i.e. When I interview candidates, its not unusual to see gaps in their CVs of 1-3 years. What they did in the gap is what counts.
- sit on the sofa for a year vs a candidate with no gap? I know who I am picking
- develop themselves, do an online course and broaden their skillset? Thats a different story
Right, maybe you still pick people and find out what went on, but many will see a gap in a CV and simply put it in the C pile (otherwise known as the trash can).

Lets say you lose your job and then soon after, a parent gets sick and you look after them for 18 months. Unless you put "looking after sick parent" on your job experience section of your CV (which looks kind of odd), you could easily get ignored on that basis.

My point is, that there may be perfectly valid reasons for gaps which are not "he is lazy / bad / unemployable" but this fixation here in Switzerland with gaps can make job hunting much harder.
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  #32  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:33
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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To be fair, if someone was successful before loosing its job i don't see any possible outcome where in a 2 yeas span they don't find any job offering.
Really? You must live in a world where everyone follows standardised education and career paths. I can well see how folks who've had successful careers based on their experience can suddenly become unemployable when technology shifts and their experience isn't broad enough. Happened to me, and RAV were completely useless at finding anything, failing to be able to understand the specific nature of my work and experience. I'm sure it's not that unusual.
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  #33  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:42
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Chomage sounds great at first but think twice before going that route.

2 years' out of work makes it extremely difficult to get back into work.

The gap will remain with you for the next 5 years as most employers consider your work history over a 5 year period.

For a middle-aged person, is it really worth the risk?

By the way, I have posted this thread for the benefit of others, and it does not reflect my personal situation.

I have met people that could not get back into work after 2 years. And the truth is they wanted the easy money which affected their job search prospects.

Outside of Switzerland no one respects people that don’t work for long periods of time and claim unemployment benefits.
Poor advice. First of all, registering at the RAV is rarely a lifestyle choice. People lose their jobs and their incomes, and need assistance. Second, they've been paying into an unemployment scheme for years (over 10 years in my case). What's the point of paying insurance and never making a claim when the worst happens?

What's worse -- 1) getting X months of RAV income while upskilling / learning a language etc., and having a good story prepared for your job interview, or 2) Burning through your savings and getting into debt over X months while STILL having to explain the gap in your CV to the next interviewer/employer?

The fact that you don't use Chomage/RAV doesn't get rid of the gap in your CV. In fact, the RAV will often assist you in retraining / language learning so it can be an excellent investment in your own future.
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  #34  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:55
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Chomage sounds great at first but think twice before going that route.

2 years' out of work makes it extremely difficult to get back into work.

The gap will remain with you for the next 5 years as most employers consider your work history over a 5 year period.

For a middle-aged person, is it really worth the risk?

By the way, I have posted this thread for the benefit of others, and it does not reflect my personal situation.

I have met people that could not get back into work after 2 years. And the truth is they wanted the easy money which affected their job search prospects.

Outside of Switzerland no one respects people that donít work for long periods of time and claim unemployment benefits.
I don't understand the point of this post. You are saying you are doing it for the benefit of the others but it sounds as if you are targeting people who 'choose' to be unemployed. For all the others, what else should they do instead? When they have been made unemployed, should they refuse the benefits they are entitled to and eat into their savings (if they have enough to feed them and their family for 2 years) or just starve if they don't have anything saved?
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  #35  
Old 05.06.2020, 15:06
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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P.S. I myself plan to go on a 2-year paid sabbatical at some point. One should exploit the system while it is still there. Your life is worth more than any career/money/advancement etc.
I've seen the same attitude by my EE compatriots many times. Milk the system as much as you can. A look of horror that a Swiss worker doesn't apply for unemployment money out of shame (or that kids will pay up deceased parents debt even if not required to do so). Prolong the unemployment as long as the benefit entitlements last. Fake an illness. Work in the season, get unemployment out of season.
The national stereotypes aren't that untrue, after all, Товарищ.

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To get back to Eastern Europe, we've used to live under communist regime where all the common causes were appropriated by the state. Any gains from a contribution to a common cause would silently disappear somewhere in the dark corners of the bureaucracy.

Quite the opposite: People felt justified to take stuff from the commons. We even had a saying: "If you don't steal [from the common property] you are stealing from your family."

At the same time, stealing from the state was, legally, a crime apart and it was ranked in severity somewhere in the vicinity of murder. You could get ten years in jail if they've caught you.

Unsurprisingly, in such an environment, reporting to authorities (i.e. "pro-social punishment") was regarded as highly unjust — remember the coffee cup example! — and anti-social and there was a strict taboo against it. Ratting often resulted in social ostracism (i.e. "anti-social punishment"). We can still witness that state of affairs in the highly offensive words used to refer to the informers: "udavač", "donŠšač", "prŠskač", "špicel", "fŪzel" (roughly: "nark", "rat", "snoop", "stool pigeon").

I also remember how, when I moved to Switzerland, a lot of my friends said things like: "I've heard that Swiss will rat on you at any occasion."

Swiss people would not understand. What's so bad about punishing free-riders after all?
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  #36  
Old 05.06.2020, 16:01
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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I don't understand the point of this post. You are saying you are doing it for the benefit of the others but it sounds as if you are targeting people who 'choose' to be unemployed. For all the others, what else should they do instead? When they have been made unemployed, should they refuse the benefits they are entitled to and eat into their savings (if they have enough to feed them and their family for 2 years) or just starve if they don't have anything saved?
I am saying that easy money makes people selective over what jobs they do. Also if you leave it too long like 2 years you are seriously damaging your career prospects and in some cases - acquaintances that I have met have not been able to find employment. So I ask, was it really worth it.
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  #37  
Old 05.06.2020, 16:02
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

Plus, it's not unemployment insurance. Its claiming benefits so please, no making it glamorous to make you feel better. That is how it is seen in the real world.
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  #38  
Old 05.06.2020, 16:19
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Plus, it's not unemployment insurance. Its claiming benefits so please, no making it glamorous to make you feel better. That is how it is seen in the real world.
Here in CH it IS an insurance.
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  #39  
Old 05.06.2020, 16:24
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

Get real dude. Unemployment benefits all the way, sell it how you like
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  #40  
Old 05.06.2020, 16:50
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Plus, it's not unemployment insurance. Its claiming benefits so please, no making it glamorous to make you feel better. That is how it is seen in the real world.
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Here in CH it IS an insurance.
Not the first time someone mentions a difference between Switzerland and the real world.
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