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  #41  
Old 05.06.2020, 18:54
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Not the first time someone mentions a difference between Switzerland and the real world.

It is the real world for ambitious people, it is a bubble for people just cruising in life
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Old 05.06.2020, 20:27
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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I am saying that easy money makes people selective over what jobs they do. Also if you leave it too long like 2 years you are seriously damaging your career prospects and in some cases - acquaintances that I have met have not been able to find employment. So I ask, was it really worth it.
Did your 'acquaintances' play the system and purposefully stay unemployed for 2 years? Or maybe they became unemployed and did not try much to find a job? In that case they cannot blame anyone else for their issues.

I remember you from your thread almost 2 years ago (which I see in the main from board today) where you complained about having been forced to take a pay cut . There I supported you and I believe the way you have been treated was unfair. After that you kept coming here to comment on the employment situation in Switzerland even after -I believe- leaving Switzerland. I wanted to tell you this before but did not want to cause offense but I really think you should move on. Unfortunately there are awful employers and terrible colleagues everywhere and I have had my own share of bullying behaviour and horrible bosses (more so in CH then elsewhere) and I still have nightmares about them after 4-5 years but I really do not think it will do you any good to dwell any more on it.
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Old 05.06.2020, 20:33
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Did your 'acquaintances' play the system and purposefully stay unemployed for 2 years? Or maybe they became unemployed and did not try much to find a job? In that case they cannot blame anyone else for their issues.

I remember you from your thread almost 2 years ago (which I see in the main from board today) where you complained about having been forced to take a pay cut . There I supported you and I believe the way you have been treated was unfair. After that you kept coming here to comment on the employment situation in Switzerland even after -I believe- leaving Switzerland. I wanted to tell you this before but did not want to cause offense but I really think you should move on. Unfortunately there are awful employers and terrible colleagues everywhere and I have had my own share of bullying behaviour and horrible bosses (more so in CH then elsewhere) and I still have nightmares about them after 4-5 years but I really do not think it will do you any good to dwell any more on it.
I am not dwelling. I look forwards, and I am not bitter. Lord have mercy on anyone that does something which is not right.

I genuinely wanted to help people with my thread.

On reflection, looking back on it during my year out, some of those that did not make it was because of what I have said in my initial statement. It was because they enjoyed collecting the money which they saw as an easy catch, and this influenced their motivation when it came to applying. Again they were a lot more selective about the jobs to apply for and potential job offers. One guy specifically is out of work 2.5 years later because of this attitude and I believe that this vulnerability is a flaw in the system
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  #44  
Old 05.06.2020, 20:55
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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I am not dwelling. I look forwards, and I am not bitter. Lord have mercy on anyone that does something which is not right.

I genuinely wanted to help people with my thread.

On reflection, looking back on it during my year out, some of those that did not make it was because of what I have said in my initial statement. It was because they enjoyed collecting the money which they saw as an easy catch, and this influenced their motivation when it came to applying. Again they were a lot more selective about the jobs to apply for and potential job offers. One guy specifically is out of work 2.5 years later because of this attitude and I believe that this vulnerability is a flaw in the system
I agree that being too picky about jobs can work against you. Being unemployed puts you at a disadvantage anyway in a negotiation as the potential employer knows your income is capped at around 120K (might be wrong about the amount). Also, the longer one is unemployed, the less confident one becomes.
even if they themselves do not like the position in question anyway.

On the other hand, I believe one shouldn't just accept any job just because they are unemployed. If it is not a good fit one runs the risk of being unemployed again after going through the initial ramp-up period at the new job which is in my opinion really stressful.

Last edited by DerDieDas; 05.06.2020 at 22:37.
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  #45  
Old 05.06.2020, 21:04
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Get real dude. Unemployment benefits all the way, sell it how you like
In most countries unemployment support is a welfare payment from central government. In Switzerland, it's an insurance scheme. You pay into a specific fund to protect against unemployment. Most people never need to make a claim. But if you do lose your job, the insurance protection is there. That's how it works, and I've had the experience of being very grateful for it being there.

Incidentally, everyone I've known who has had RAV support has found another job eventually. It usually takes around 6-12 months as many Swiss employers like to string out the recruitment process for some reason.

Not sure why you have such a bee in your bonnet about this.
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  #46  
Old 06.06.2020, 07:58
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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In most countries unemployment support is a welfare payment from central government. In Switzerland, it's an insurance scheme. You pay into a specific fund to protect against unemployment. Most people never need to make a claim. But if you do lose your job, the insurance protection is there. That's how it works, and I've had the experience of being very grateful for it being there.

Incidentally, everyone I've known who has had RAV support has found another job eventually. It usually takes around 6-12 months as many Swiss employers like to string out the recruitment process for some reason.

Not sure why you have such a bee in your bonnet about this.
Even if it's payed by the central government, unemployment benefits are definitely not for everyone to claim. There must be met some conditions too (mind, don't know about UK)

Imho, regardless of the systems, unemployment benefits are there to protect and not to abuse. But, as with every other social protection form, some people are set to milk the "system". Being the car insurance, private liability insurance etc etc insurance frauds are not that uncommon.....unfortunately.

The funniest or saddest thing of all is that some people don't even see why is that so freaking utterly wrong. They don't see it as the theft that it really is.
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  #47  
Old 06.06.2020, 08:11
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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They don't see it as the theft that it really is.
Pfff... lets discuss inheritance tax while we're at it.
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Old 06.06.2020, 08:24
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Pfff... lets discuss inheritance tax while we're at it.
But then especially the one in our home country, one of the worst......
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  #49  
Old 06.06.2020, 09:13
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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But then especially the one in our home country, one of the worst......
Out of curiosity, how high is it?
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Old 06.06.2020, 09:17
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Out of curiosity, how high is it?
If you inherit from your parents: 10% if less than 126k, 20% if over 126k.

Tax free amount is 20k for children.

If you inherit as a brother or sister: 30% / 40%. Tax free amount is 2k
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  #51  
Old 06.06.2020, 09:29
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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I am just not a hypocrite, unlike many others. I don't say what society accepts, I say what can realistically be done, be it good or bad from the society point of view.

Better than wasting your best years in some office

Nope just advising people to lie through their teeth on a C.V. Hypocrite isn't quite the word that springs to mind to describe my reaction to your posts
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  #52  
Old 06.06.2020, 09:41
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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One question: Why 2 years? Over than 50 years?

I thought if i go to RAV (39 years and Portuguese (C Permit)) it is 12 months.
It depends how much you've worked in the past 2 years, and your age.

Tom
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Old 06.06.2020, 10:55
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

I watched some clips about the Latex Salesman episode from Seinfeld on Youtube. The thread really reminds me of George Costanza....
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  #54  
Old 06.06.2020, 18:44
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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I am saying that easy money makes people selective over what jobs they do. Also if you leave it too long like 2 years you are seriously damaging your career prospects and in some cases - acquaintances that I have met have not been able to find employment. So I ask, was it really worth it.

I don't know if you've been unemployed here, but for some people it is very stressful. I have a family and do not have the luxury of having my benefits run out. Switzerland is very expensive! I have not had the good fortune to be able to choose my job and had to take what was available. And that is the same for many people. Not everyone can choose to have a 2-year-sabbatical on unemployment benefits, wait for the ideal job and take the risk of having nothing at the end of it.
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  #55  
Old 06.06.2020, 22:02
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

This thread touches me.

I moved to Geneva in 2009 for work. In December 2016 I was laid off by my bullying boss in my employer at that time (a boutique financial company). The previous months had been terrible. I had thought about suicide. I had even contacted the OCIRT (Service de l'inspection du travail) before being laid-off (because of my bullying) and it was like F__K off.

So in Dec 16 I needed to get mentally healed and get a job. Not easy!

I joined a gym and collective sport classes and started taking anxiolytics. This worked. I was not happy but at least my suicidal thoughts stopped.

Now the hard part.

Looking for a job in Geneva/Suisse Romande (I speak fluent French but no German; so ZH/BS/BE out of question) was impossible. Most professional acquittances ran away. Recruiters and hiring managers too. Switzerland is very small and everybody knows everybody. So because I was fired from a relatively prestigious company, nobody wanted to have any association with me. I felt like I was in a black list. And that Switzerland was like a sect.

Otherwise I looked for jobs everywhere in Europe and specially in London (given the amount of offers there for my profile). Do you think in London was easy? Recruiters and hiring managers in London always wondered why (in 2016 with almost no unemployment) I was fired in Switzerland. After all Switzerland is perfect and everybody is rich. That looked very suspicious to them.

This is like a snow ball. The more time outside the job market, the more suspicious people become of you. I remember one recruiter on the phone in London telling me once how "awesome fit your profile is to this offer" until she realised I had been jobless for 9 months... and it was like a cold shower "I will call you again".

It was quite mentally draining. It is an unbelievable waste of time applied to so many jobs, contacting people, etc. just for nothing. And the more time in that situation, the worst it is for potential employers. Some days I thought I would never work again (that is what my boss told me in Geneva - among many other things -; that I was unsuited for work and I would never work again... that nice).

The only luxury I took in that year (2017) was some easyJet short trips. I booked quite a few of those 20 CHF flights on a random Thursday midday in June or September and made a few city breaks or long weekends to some Mediterranean beach off-season. Which was quite helpful. When you have been for 3 weeks at home just receiving No after No after No (or just nothing, which is worse), going for three days to Naples or Split reminds you that there is another world out there.

Fortunately I found a job in January 2018. I applied for a job in London but at that time they were looking for someone in their office in Paris with my native language, French, English and another language I am fluent at, and I didn't need 3 month préavis, so it fit well (otherwise they would have need to find two persons who spoke combined the 4 languages fluently). I had never thought about living in France (for me it was that chaotic country on the other side of the border). The pay is slightly worse but the lower cost of living and overheads pretty much match up. And I haven't taken anxiolytic medication since January 2018.

I was also lucky because I now work in a similar position but in a relatively different industry. The one in CH is going to be hit by the post coronavirus world while the industry I work in at the moment is considered "essential" so we have been doing very well ever since March. So even if I stayed in CH and keep my job/field, I would be in risk to lose my job now. Never say never, but my job at the moment is pretty stable. And firing people in France is more complicated than in Switzerland

Over the last few weeks I noticed in LinkedIn that some of the recruiters/hiring managers in GE or London that looked to me like shit have been now laid off. Well they started as "Independent Consultants" which you all know what it means... in the middle of a pandemic.

Being 1 year unemployed is not because that person has been watching TV all day. Even when the economy is doing well. There are many reasons, starting with the bias people have against the unemployed.

Life has many twists and turns. Try to understand to the person in front of you and be humble.
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Old 14.06.2020, 19:29
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

I am glad there are people out there that can relate to this and who understand. The number of people in this forum who would see it differently are too many. You must go through this experience yourself to understand. Otherwise, it is easy to be biased. I hope this post helps those that find themselves in this situation. It is sometimes not easy to see clearly.

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Old 16.06.2020, 19:32
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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I am glad there are people out there that can relate to this and who understand. The number of people in this forum who would see it differently are too many. You must go through this experience yourself to understand. Otherwise, it is easy to be biased. I hope this post helps those that find themselves in this situation. It is sometimes not easy to see clearly.
Thanks. I didn't plan to stay unemployed for long (I didn't even thought about "taking a month" off) but as you can imagine it is like a snow ball.

Something interesting I noticed in Switzerland (OK that happens everywhere, but in CH it is exaggerated) is the incredible number of "senior freelance/consultants" out there.

I followed the "you need to network outside job-boards" advice so I talked to many companies/people around. Which by the way was an absolute waste of time. I got my job with a typical LinkedIn offer in a company I knew nobody.

I noticed in CH there are many people in their late 40s, 50s and 60s who one day were let go from their corporate job, nobody rehires them (too old for CH) and they somehow struggle to survive with their own "consultancy business". No doubt some of them made a lot of money in their younger years and do not bother to work in a corporate environment anymore. But I talked to quite a few people that I felt were in that situation by obligation.

The more I found out about the Swiss job market, the darker it looked. I have a hard time trusting that 2 or 3% unemployment rate. Officially maybe... but the reality is very different.

Coupled that salaries in CH (at least for qualified jobs) are on a downwards spiral (due to outsourcing to cheaper European countries and to bringing more people from abroad), I really felt that Switzerland didn't make a lot of sense even for money reasons.

I live quite a frugal lifestyle and even in this tax hell that is France I live on a similar lifestyle and on average save roughly the same as I did back in GE.
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Old 16.06.2020, 20:22
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Re: Lack of concern about a 2 year job stop on your CV

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Chomage sounds great at first but think twice before going that route.

2 years' out of work makes it extremely difficult to get back into work.

The gap will remain with you for the next 5 years as most employers consider your work history over a 5 year period.

For a middle-aged person, is it really worth the risk?

By the way, I have posted this thread for the benefit of others, and it does not reflect my personal situation.

I have met people that could not get back into work after 2 years. And the truth is they wanted the easy money which affected their job search prospects.

Outside of Switzerland no one respects people that don’t work for long periods of time and claim unemployment benefits.
What a bunch of bollocks! Very silly post aiming at intimidating, heads-up, making scared, threatening and discouraging job seekers at least, instead of giving all possible support, courage, inspirations and kudos for believing in oneself.

If one dodges to find the job and it’s intentional, karma sooner or later will catch up with the delinquent in one form or the other.

Many people have different reasons for not to being able to find a job ranging from personal to market related and unexpected circumstances e.g. COVID-19 extraordinary measures making people getting laid off and prospective jobs very scarce.

Majority of the people do not lose jobs because they believe in easy money. It is not the way how productive society functions.

The gaps can easily be explained (i.e. career break, family, education transition from the jobs and etc.) for someone who had worked before, the worst that can happen, it may take slightly longer to get on the job market but eventually something will pan out.

P.S. Btw, I used to have a gap of 1.5 years and it didn’t bother my next employer the least.
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