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  #21  
Old 13.06.2020, 10:41
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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But they are required to discriminate. Swiss nationals and EU nationals resident in Switzerland first, then other EU nationals, then everyone else.
Actually it's as fixed above - no discrimination between Swiss and EU residents.

But still (legally) no discrimination on race or gender. LGBT discrimination is also covered by anti-discrimination laws but less strongly than race - this is likely to change in the coming years (as written earlier, nothing changes quickly here).
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  #22  
Old 13.06.2020, 12:43
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

Just to check - are you an EU or non-EU citizen? (Location vs user name suggest ambiguity.)

Also, as you have 20 years experience you are likely heading into the age bracket where companies routinely reject older applicants unless there is a specific niche only you can fill. Especially in tech.

So you might have two strikes against you already - age and citizenship. While I, too, abhor the practice of photos on CVs, perhaps it wouldn't be wise to give some jobsworth another reason not to read your CV.

As much as we'd like to think that every CV is given careful consideration, the reality in some, perhaps many, firms is that the first sort of the hundreds of applications received is often done by a very junior clerk - one who has little understanding of what the position requires and is simply sorting on key words and check boxes. A photo just might be one of those boxes to check. If so, CVs without photos might automatically go in the bin.

Color inside the lines to help you get here. Then work your way up to CEO and change the corporate culture.

Good luck with the job search.
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  #23  
Old 13.06.2020, 13:09
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

All my jobs in Switzerland (both career and menial) I've acquired through an American-style CV without a picture. I refuse to include one and unless I apply for a modeling job, I fail to see a purpose in including one. There are so many factors speaking against it IMO and the more people refusing to including one, the more it will be socially accepted.
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Old 13.06.2020, 13:36
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

The entire recruitment process is an exercise in discrimination! Over thirty years I have been involved in headhunting at a management consulting firm and typical recruitment exercises at a few Swiss and Irish companies, so about 45 positions in total and I cannot recall a single occasion were they took a person that they did not like. SoMe of the reasons put forward at the assessment stage includes:

- He had white socks... only pimps wear white socks
- She is from Kerry (Ireland) and Kerry people are awful gossips
- Iíd have to spend an hour every week alone with him week on the train
- He plays rugby (the manager only supports the playing of native sports)
- He speaks German with a superior accent
- She is Australian (see comment on Kerry)
- He is German so he could read the documents as well as I can.

Anyone who thinks legislation will force an employer to take on a person they donít like is sadly mistaken it just wastes your time keeping you in the process for a job you will never get.

I see my photo and age (57) as filters to weed out time wasting employers rather than anything else.
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  #25  
Old 13.06.2020, 14:05
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Because it has always been done this way. Change in Switzerland is very slow, change does happen but at a snailís pace
Sorry, I disagree about the photo. I never added any to my previously successful job applications from 1980 onwards. At the time you might have clipped on a pix if receptionist or similar, in my opinion . I suspect this is now generally "expected" due to technological advances in MS-Word. Less paper faff/all done electronically nowadays.

Switzerland is hardly ever first past the post but we're working on it
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  #26  
Old 13.06.2020, 14:22
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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All my jobs in Switzerland (both career and menial) I've acquired through an American-style CV without a picture. I refuse to include one and unless I apply for a modeling job, I fail to see a purpose in including one. There are so many factors speaking against it IMO and the more people refusing to including one, the more it will be socially accepted.
Just to be clear: itís not a Swiss thing. All of Europe does it except of the UK and all of Asia does so as well. Because a CV should introduce you as a person and a photo is a logical thing to add. The idea that adding a birth date is discriminatory in a document that lists all dates of your career including school years is just stupid. The idea that I cannot be racist or sexist without a photo is idiotic.
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  #27  
Old 13.06.2020, 15:14
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

I landed in CH 8 years ago directly from the UK. So, I sent around my UK-style CV (no picture, no DOB, no marital status). I got 2 interviews after 2-3 weeks and both offered me a job. I am still working in the one I accepted.

I personally donĎt like the picture in the CV because it can potentially lead to discrimination. However, I donĎt have the experience of having witnessed any discrimination because of the picture or because its absence since I am in CH.

If I would have to find a new job any soon, I would again send my CV with no picture. I donĎt think my face tells anything about how good (or bad) I am at my job.....
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  #28  
Old 13.06.2020, 16:14
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Just to be clear: it’s not a Swiss thing. All of Europe does it except of the UK and all of Asia does so as well. Because a CV should introduce you as a person and a photo is a logical thing to add. The idea that adding a birth date is discriminatory in a document that lists all dates of your career including school years is just stupid. The idea that I cannot be racist or sexist without a photo is idiotic.
Nobody is negating that it is common use in Europe. It just seems wrong as recruiters simply look at a person and say yay or nay, like some sort of corporate tinder. Some people look good on pictures, others not so. I'm actually utterly handsome (at least my aunty thinks so ) but on cv pictures, I look like I clubber baby seals for a hobby. At one point, I uploaded a picture of Elmo on a hiring website. I eventually didn't get the job. Not because of the picture, I advanced to the next round but because of some other technicality. As SwissDutyFree pointed out, you cannot tell by a picture, whether someone can do the job and that's what it basically boils down to.
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  #29  
Old 13.06.2020, 16:50
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

I have applied a lot in Switzerland and never included a photo. I am on LinkedIn though with a photo and the list of former jobs, could be easily located and looked at.
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  #30  
Old 13.06.2020, 20:45
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Only half of those 8 million people can vote, and 95% of those a WASPs.
Si tacuisses ...
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  #31  
Old 14.06.2020, 19:31
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

Of course, some from CH would claim that this backward way of thinking is a Swiss quality characteristic.

I think it is shocking and sad that there is no reform and 8 million persons have to tolerate such discrimination in their everyday lives made possible with a system like this.

Last edited by PeterSoliman; 14.06.2020 at 19:48.
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  #32  
Old 14.06.2020, 19:46
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

Wow!

Have you actually read the replies to this thread? The vast majority saying they havenít or wouldnít submit a photo?

It is not required by law.

The non-Swiss, about 20% of those 8 million, donít have a say in the political system because, well, they arenít Swiss.

Given your reaction, I seriously doubt you would enjoy living here. Perhaps you should look somewhere else.
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  #33  
Old 14.06.2020, 19:50
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

Nobody is negating that it is common use in Europe. It just seems wrong as recruiters simply look at a person and say yay or nay, like some sort of corporate tinder. Some people look good on pictures, others not so. I'm actually utterly handsome (at least my aunty thinks so ) but on cv pictures, I look like I clubber baby seals for a hobby. At one point, I uploaded a picture of Elmo on a hiring website. I eventually didn't get the job. Not because of the picture, I advanced to the next round but because of some other technicality. As SwissDutyFree pointed out, you cannot tell by a picture, whether someone can do the job and that's what it basically boils down to.

LostInBroad absolutely.
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  #34  
Old 14.06.2020, 19:53
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Wow!

Have you actually read the replies to this thread? The vast majority saying they haven’t or wouldn’t submit a photo?

It is not required by law.

The non-Swiss, about 20% of those 8 million, don’t have a say in the political system because, well, they aren’t Swiss.

Given your reaction, I seriously doubt you would enjoy living here. Perhaps you should look somewhere else.
Everyone is doing it, and people would prefer not to. You would have to carefully consider it if you were desperately in need of a job.

Excuses, excuses Bowlie.
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  #35  
Old 14.06.2020, 19:58
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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The entire recruitment process is an exercise in discrimination! Over thirty years I have been involved in headhunting at a management consulting firm and typical recruitment exercises at a few Swiss and Irish companies, so about 45 positions in total and I cannot recall a single occasion were they took a person that they did not like. SoMe of the reasons put forward at the assessment stage includes:

- He had white socks... only pimps wear white socks
- She is from Kerry (Ireland) and Kerry people are awful gossips
- Iíd have to spend an hour every week alone with him week on the train
- He plays rugby (the manager only supports the playing of native sports)
- He speaks German with a superior accent
- She is Australian (see comment on Kerry)
- He is German so he could read the documents as well as I can.

Anyone who thinks legislation will force an employer to take on a person they donít like is sadly mistaken it just wastes your time keeping you in the process for a job you will never get.

I see my photo and age (57) as filters to weed out time wasting employers rather than anything else.
Both of those are justified IMO. A) White socks in an interview for a corporate role shows lack of judgement. B) your cv should show that you are capable of doing the job from a technical perspective. The interview should confirm this and confirm that you are a fit for the team you are working in. Iíve walked away from offers in the past because I didnít like the people I interviewed with and Iím sure Iíve been rejected for the same reasons.
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  #36  
Old 14.06.2020, 20:39
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

I find it particularly disturbing when women are required or expected to include a photo on their CV. This could easily cause some male employers to discriminate and only interview those women they find attractive. And as far as I am aware, someone's appearance usually has very little to do with how well they can perform their job.
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  #37  
Old 14.06.2020, 20:59
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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I find it particularly disturbing when women are required or expected to include a photo on their CV. This could easily cause some male employers to discriminate and only interview those women they find attractive. And as far as I am aware, someone's appearance usually has very little to do with how well they can perform their job.

Do you have an example of such a case?
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  #38  
Old 14.06.2020, 21:04
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

I have never provided a CV with photo. Also having been a hiring manager, have never cared whether there is a photo or not with the CV.

Though I do have an MRI scan of my the inside of head - perhaps I can send that, as thatís the part most important to the role.
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  #39  
Old 14.06.2020, 22:50
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Do you have an example of such a case?
Why do you assume that such a thing could only occur if I personally have an example of such a case?

Some males do hire females primarily based on their appearance. Not all, but certainly some. And perhaps some females have hired men due to their appearance as well (I'm certainly not implying that it's something only males could do).

I once worked as a receptionist / office manager at a mergers and acquisitions firm, and my boss told me one day that he had hired me primarily due to my appearance. He was an old man... old school. Use to tell me he preferred it when I wore my hair a certain way and skirts and high heels, etc. I just laughed it off. But in hindsight, it forced me to realize that women are discriminated against (for better or worse) according to their appearance. This is true in the workplace and in society in general... Sadly.
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  #40  
Old 14.06.2020, 23:03
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

If you're a woman in STEM, the research shows only negatives from posting your photo. If the recruiter finds you attractive, their bias will assume you're less intelligent and less competent, bias assumes the same for unattractive women. Not having a photo was considered beneficial.

For men, it was about 50/50 unless you're part of a minority group.

When I got some help with my CV, I was advised to leave the photo out for this reason.
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