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  #41  
Old 15.06.2020, 00:29
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Wow!

Have you actually read the replies to this thread? The vast majority saying they haven’t or wouldn’t submit a photo?

It is not required by law.

The non-Swiss, about 20% of those 8 million, don’t have a say in the political system because, well, they aren’t Swiss.

Given your reaction, I seriously doubt you would enjoy living here. Perhaps you should look somewhere else.
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The entire recruitment process is an exercise in discrimination! Over thirty years I have been involved in headhunting at a management consulting firm and typical recruitment exercises at a few Swiss and Irish companies, so about 45 positions in total and I cannot recall a single occasion were they took a person that they did not like. SoMe of the reasons put forward at the assessment stage includes:

- He had white socks... only pimps wear white socks
- She is from Kerry (Ireland) and Kerry people are awful gossips
- I’d have to spend an hour every week alone with him week on the train
- He plays rugby (the manager only supports the playing of native sports)
- He speaks German with a superior accent
- She is Australian (see comment on Kerry)
- He is German so he could read the documents as well as I can.

Anyone who thinks legislation will force an employer to take on a person they don’t like is sadly mistaken it just wastes your time keeping you in the process for a job you will never get.

I see my photo and age (57) as filters to weed out time wasting employers rather than anything else.
A small change is the right thing to do and a step forwards. I knew someone would say that it was a good thing. What a joke Swiss guy.

Last edited by PeterSoliman; 15.06.2020 at 00:59.
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  #42  
Old 15.06.2020, 03:30
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

Photo or not, I think that one of the most attractive things to an employer, on a cv, is the confirmation that the applicant has a permit to live in Switzerland, or is Swiss or EU. If this applies to you, then state it clearly at the top.

Exception: employees who bring unique niche skills, and for whom an employer is willing to tackle the permit process.
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  #43  
Old 15.06.2020, 07:37
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Anyone who thinks legislation will force an employer to take on a person they don’t like is sadly mistaken it just wastes your time keeping you in the process for a job you will never get.

I see my photo and age (57) as filters to weed out time wasting employers rather than anything else.
This.

I loved the part with your photo. I do think that in general it's not absolutely necessary. For those who're already living in CH and not looking for a job from abroad, you probably know it already - never underestimate the importance of networking (and yes, I do include LinkedIn here)

@PeterSoliman: Swiss labour market is highly competitive and what we can call a tough nut to crack. More often than not one has to be really lucky or needed to get in. A photo of yours is not necessarily the cause for which you can get rejected.
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  #44  
Old 15.06.2020, 07:40
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Some males do hire females primarily based on their appearance. Not all, but certainly some. And perhaps some females have hired men due to their appearance as well (I'm certainly not implying that it's something only males could do).

But you find it particularly disturbing when women are required or expected to include a photo on their CV. When men are treated like this, it's not that bad
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  #45  
Old 15.06.2020, 07:58
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

My experience while recruiting open engineering positions is that...

- Some CVs had pictures and some didn't. I actually believe that less than half of the CVs included pictures.
- As recruiters, we certainly didn't care if people had pictures.
- A poor quality picture would probably have reflected badly on the candidate, the same way bad grammar or spelling on application materials would.

My guess is that pictures in CVs are slowly dissapearing, but there is a change that you'll apply to an old fasion HR who will take your application less seriously if it doesn't have a picture.

When applying for jobs, I made sure that my CV had a good quality picture taking by a friend of mine who is a good hobby photographer, just in case.

Again, this may not only depend on the field, but also on the demand for the position. We were looking for specialists in an area where there were not many and we were in no position to throw away a CV because of something silly like a picture. This might be different in a field where they get 100s of applications for each open position.
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  #46  
Old 15.06.2020, 09:15
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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The entire recruitment process is an exercise in discrimination! Over thirty years I have been involved in headhunting at a management consulting firm and typical recruitment exercises at a few Swiss and Irish companies, so about 45 positions in total and I cannot recall a single occasion were they took a person that they did not like. SoMe of the reasons put forward at the assessment stage includes:

- He had white socks... only pimps wear white socks
- She is from Kerry (Ireland) and Kerry people are awful gossips
- Iíd have to spend an hour every week alone with him week on the train
- He plays rugby (the manager only supports the playing of native sports)
- He speaks German with a superior accent
- She is Australian (see comment on Kerry)
- He is German so he could read the documents as well as I can.

Anyone who thinks legislation will force an employer to take on a person they donít like is sadly mistaken it just wastes your time keeping you in the process for a job you will never get.

I see my photo and age (57) as filters to weed out time wasting employers rather than anything else.
With an attitude like yours, bias and discrimination will flourish. Legislation should be enforced.
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  #47  
Old 15.06.2020, 09:40
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Some people look good on pictures, others not so.
It all depends on your line of work. In consulting, being afraid of your own photo is just a display of insecurity. If the job requires management responsibilities or negotiation with clients, confident people is needed. Not beautiful, but confident people.

Now a curious anecdote from the last time I was looking for a job. Before getting invited to the office for an interview, there was a round of phone interviews for all 24 applicants. One beers night my colleagues told me how I ended in the group selected for an interview: they liked my voice on the phone. You could say it's not rational or whatever, but when you have 20+ applicants, all of them with excellent CVs, what else you do besides looking at the little things?

Last edited by Axa; 15.06.2020 at 10:02.
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  #48  
Old 15.06.2020, 10:06
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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You could say it's not rational or whatever, but when you have 20+ applicants, all of them with excellent CVs, what else you do besides looking at the little things?
Indeed. I have an acquaintance who was once rejected because of their nationality - it was made plane and simple. He got into the selection process because someone from HR thought he could be a good candidate, but when they had to give a final answer the hiring manager said something along the line of "Yeah, we chose someone else because one time when I wanted to recruit someone from your country they changed their mind in the last moment"... (as if it's utterly wrong to look after one's best interests and interview at as many companies as you can)
So, you never really know what's going on in some people's minds. Most of the time, rational is not the word I would describe that thought process.

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Both of those are justified IMO. A) White socks in an interview for a corporate role shows lack of judgement. B) your cv should show that you are capable of doing the job from a technical perspective. The interview should confirm this and confirm that you are a fit for the team you are working in. I’ve walked away from offers in the past because I didn’t like the people I interviewed with and I’m sure I’ve been rejected for the same reasons.
Good that you also brought this up. I don't get why people refuse to see this a two-way process.

Last edited by greenmount; 15.06.2020 at 10:30.
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  #49  
Old 15.06.2020, 10:35
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

The application process is not easy here, I would use a photo or anything that can help. I actually like the fact it is old school, employers have the right to hire whoever fits their ideal candidate profile. More open the process is, better for the candidates and employers.
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  #50  
Old 15.06.2020, 10:53
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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Why do you assume that such a thing could only occur if I personally have an example of such a case?

Some males do hire females primarily based on their appearance. Not all, but certainly some. And perhaps some females have hired men due to their appearance as well (I'm certainly not implying that it's something only males could do).

I once worked as a receptionist / office manager at a mergers and acquisitions firm, and my boss told me one day that he had hired me primarily due to my appearance. He was an old man... old school. Use to tell me he preferred it when I wore my hair a certain way and skirts and high heels, etc. I just laughed it off. But in hindsight, it forced me to realize that women are discriminated against (for better or worse) according to their appearance. This is true in the workplace and in society in general... Sadly.
And how does a CV without photo fix any of this? A company dead set on hiring a young prett receptionist as a form of decoration will do so. They simply invite a few young girls for interviews and pick the prettiest.

We had this debate on here a decade ago as Americans seem to be shocked about anything thatís not exactly like at home. Looking at the state of the US do I believe that the antidiscriminatory measures donít seem to actually work that well...

The debate made no sense to me a decade ago but far less so today: everyone has their photos on LinkedIn, Facebook and others. I can find your photo within seconds. If you donít have any profiles online is that much more of a red flag than the photo on your CV.

Itís a bit like the people who debate privacy issues about tracking Corona but at the same time use WhatsApp and TikTok all the time. Iíd highly recommend people to google their names and make sure employers find GOOD photos of you instead of none.
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  #51  
Old 15.06.2020, 11:00
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

Did this test suggested by Treverus a few years ago and it was funny that my first photo was me in fullface helmet and riding my bike.

This time, .....the first pic is from GitHub profile and I put a funny one there
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  #52  
Old 15.06.2020, 11:07
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Re: Would you provide a photo?

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And how does a CV without photo fix any of this? A company dead set on hiring a young prett receptionist as a form of decoration will do so. They simply invite a few young girls for interviews and pick the prettiest.

We had this debate on here a decade ago as Americans seem to be shocked about anything thatís not exactly like at home. Looking at the state of the US do I believe that the antidiscriminatory measures donít seem to actually work that well...
They do not.

I think an open process will liberate unsuitable candidates easier so they can focus on better chances. Open, meaning - the employer is allowed to publish who exactly they need.
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