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  #41  
Old 19.06.2020, 08:14
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Re: Quitting

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Being unemployed is, in general, not positive for ones health
Also being in a job that you don't like isn't healthy...there is also a risk in staying in a job that he doesn't like, one day he might screw some things up because of his lack of motivation, and this will be more damaging to his career than quitting.
There is a balance between "staying at all costs" vs "quitting", which depends from anybody's circumstance.
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Old 19.06.2020, 08:56
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Re: Quitting

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but you need to be very careful what you say and what you ask.

So true. It is really best to say as little as possible in RAV "interviews"
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  #43  
Old 19.06.2020, 09:10
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Re: Quitting

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Also being in a job that you don't like isn't healthy...there is also a risk in staying in a job that he doesn't like, one day he might screw some things up because of his lack of motivation, and this will be more damaging to his career than quitting.
There is a balance between "staying at all costs" vs "quitting", which depends from anybody's circumstance.

What a load of nonsense. Nobody is suggesting that a 20 something stay in a job and a career he isn't keen upon for ever, However, people who make something of their life would be prepared to put up with a job they didn't particularly like in the short term to enable them to get to where they want to go.

Now, there are companies and managers who engage in bullying and other nasty tactics and make it unbearable, normally because they want to force the person to quit. and I am not talking about sticking it out in those circumstances. This kid doesn't want another job right now but the luxury of having a few months off so his days are free to learn German.

I know many people who worked 2 jobs to get the money to invest in themselves or worked a demanding job while studying for difficult professional qualifications, me included. I find in general 20 somethings don't want to put in the effort but rather look for the quick and easy way to get everything now.

And as for arguing a lack of motivation means someone might screw up a job they are qualified and more than capable of doing so badly they might damage their career! Yes, you might not be the first to volunteer for additional tasks and spend a bit more time at lunch but if someone cannot motivate themselves and have enough self respect to put in a half way reasonable effort at the job they are being paid to do, that says something about them and how far they will go in life if they quit when it gets a bit tough.


If you want something badly enough put in the time, dedication, hard work and sacrifice that it takes to get it. No short cut, no whinging or listening to touchy feely nonsense about how if everything is not rosy and happy, you will instantly be depressed, damage your health and start popping pills.
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  #44  
Old 19.06.2020, 10:10
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Re: Quitting

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Now, there are companies and managers who engage in bullying and other nasty tactics and make it unbearable, normally because they want to force the person to quit. and I am not talking about sticking it out in those circumstances. This kid doesn't want another job right now but the luxury of having a few months off so his days are free to learn German.
Exactly this! Been there, was awful and luckily I was able to get out by finding a new job before quitting. (Even though I probably should have months before as it was detrimental to my health and family life.)

Great words Mr Dog! We don't know OP's whole story, but from the little bit he or she provided, your perception seems to be spot on.
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  #45  
Old 19.06.2020, 23:50
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Re: Quitting

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Thanks everyone for their messages. I wasn't expecting this to get this much attention and as a matter of fact a couple of you guys missed the real question "My question is, even if they take 2 or 3 months to pay me, can I start the german course in the first month that I register with RAV?"

But since many of you created a different discussion...

Clearly there are 2 different mindsets and types of thoughts on this situation.

The "don't leave the job" or "don't milk the system" mentality which shows a more conservative approach.

And the other mentalitly which is clearly the one I'm trying to go with, which is, if one is not happy with something, he should seek for a better way of life. Is it a risk? Yes it is, but like I mentioned in my topic, I will leave the job sooner or later, it's not my area of interest and not my field of work as well.
Of course it's normal not to like the job or prefer something else, or prefer to be a pop star musician, yea I get it, but I'm still young, I'm in my early 20s and I'm afraid to take wrong decisions, working in a job which is clearly not what I like and it was just a job to save some money doesn't look like the best decision in life.

Are you guys trying to say that if one starts a career in the wrong path they can't change? Once a housekeeper always a housekeeper?
I need german to pursue the career I want.

For the ones that asked, I have B, I'm from an european country and I work in this job for almost 2 years. I'm in my early 20's. I came to switzerland to save some money to invest in my life or pursue further education. I like switzerland as a country, so I decided to stay longer.

I don't want to "milk" RAV actually, that's why I mentioned I don't even mind not getting paid the first 3 months as long as they pay me the german course from the beginning. I think this is what many people didn't understand, I don't want RAV's money, I want their help to improve my german so I can find a better job in my field. I don't want to stay there for 1 year like many people do.
I think 3, 4 or 5 months would be extremely useful for my german.

For the ones that suggest me trying to learn german for free or in my free time, well, trust me I tried. People are different but in my case I can't seem to focus much on learning while I'm working full time. I tried it for years already, back in my country I was studying 2 times per week while working, and I was even in a 1 day per week german course here in switzerland for as long as 1 year. Did it help? yes, but it's definitly not enough and its a slow process. I like to study so I know if I go to an intesive course I will manage to learn way faster.

And like lost_inbroad said, if I do stay in this job for much longer, I will probably be miserable, which I already am, kinda.
Reduce your workload, use free time to improve German.
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  #46  
Old 20.06.2020, 03:52
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Re: Quitting

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Thanks everyone for their messages. I wasn't expecting this to get this much attention and as a matter of fact a couple of you guys missed the real question "My question is, even if they take 2 or 3 months to pay me, can I start the german course in the first month that I register with RAV?"
You are asking the wrong question.
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  #47  
Old 20.06.2020, 07:15
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Re: Quitting

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What business is it of yours? If the person qualifies for RAV, then so be it. After all, they paid their contributions into the system. Should they remain miserable and start abusing opioids or self-medicate through other means and then become a real fiscal burden to the system by permanently getting social assistance instead?
The system is not a pension. Its not done so that all of us can cash out when we want to. It a safety net meant to help people who are really in need. If OP was not made redundant in the crisis then perhaps he is not that? There are lots of people in that situation and its insensitive to post like this.
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  #48  
Old 29.06.2020, 05:15
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Re: Quitting

I'd like to add to what others have said about mid 2020 not being the best of times to resign from a job. These are not just the grumblings of boring, preachy old folk who don't understand what it is like to be young and feeling bored and trapped, but a stark reality of the way Swiss unemployment rates have changed since the start of the Corona crisis. Here are just a few examples from the German-speaking Swiss press. Unemployment figures are up, to an unprecedented degree.

https://www.solothurnerzeitung.ch/so...beit-138121861
Solothurn: unemployment increased to 3%, 2260 firms on short work

https://www.nfz.ch/2020/05/die-zahl-...l-markant.html
Fricktal: significant increase in unemployed, way beyond seasonal fluctuations

https://hallowil.ch/leiterin-des-rav...gt-rasant.html
Wil: rapid increase in registrations at RAV

https://www.ag.ch/de/aktuelles/medie...846%20Personen.
Aargau: steep increase in unemployed and job-seekers

https://www.srf.ch/news/wirtschaft/f...uf-3-4-prozent
SRF news: in May, an increase to 3 to 4 percent
  • Knapp 156'000 Menschen waren demnach im Mai als arbeitslos gemeldet – das sind 2585 mehr als noch im April 2020, wie das Staatssekretariat für Wirtschaft (Seco) bekannt gibt.
  • Gegenüber dem Vorjahresmonat (Mai 2019) erhöhte sich die Arbeitslosigkeit um 54'628 Personen. Dies entspricht einem Plus von 53.9 Prozent.
  • According to the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (Seco), just under 156,000 people were registered as unemployed in May - 2585 more than in April 2020.
  • Compared to the same month last year (May 2019), unemployment rose by 54,628 people. This corresponds to an increase of 53.9 percent.


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I want to quit my job in a couple of months due to being very tired and saturated of it.
I've thought about it for months already and to be very honest it is what I'm going to do sooner or later.

My german is not very good, I would say I have the A1 level, I can understand and talk about basic stuff.

I'm willing to go to RAF 2 or 3 months without pay as long as they pay me a german course. My question is, even if they take 2 or 3 months to pay me, can I start the german course in the first month that I register with RAF?

Thanks in advance.
The short answer is "no".
  1. If you start a German course before your file has be processed and your level of unemployment benefits determined, then those course fees will have to come out of your pocket.
  2. If you resign from your current job, then the RAV will count that as a reason to give you "penalty days". During that time, you are not eligible for any benefits... also not course fees.

The RAV, like everything else in Switzerland, is cantonal and municipal, which can influence the way things are done.

In general, the RAV offices have stringent requirements for their registered unemployed people, to send about 10 job applications per month, to appear for interviews with the assigned officer, etc., and as others have said, a lot depends upon the officer, and especially upon their sense of how motivated you are to get back to work.

Having said that, things are rather different now in these Corona-related exceptional circumstances. Many RAVs have a backlog that they can't yet cope with, and which they're now working through. Some RAVs have announced that, until further notice, they will permit registered persons to submit fewer applications. Many are not yet seeing the insured persons in their offices. In time, however, they will.

Such factors, taken together, mean that the RAVs are going to have to re-think its way of doing things. Whether or a RAV will cover the costs of a course is unlikely to be a decision that any RAV will be able to take quickly. And besides, with so many more currently registered people, and possibly more as the economy wobbles, I think it's likely that the extent to which any particular RAV has a budget (or influences a federal office which does) for paying for courses at all… will drop.

So here's my vote for: "Don't resign…. Yet."
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  #49  
Old 13.07.2020, 01:11
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Re: Quitting

Thanks everyone for their answers, I read every single one of them, sadly I couldnt answer for a while.

I have been having terrible days and avoiding coming online since I have noticed I am feeling very depressed lately, not only due to work factors but due to life problems outside of work..

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I'd like to add to what others have said about mid 2020 not being the best of times to resign from a job. These are not just the grumblings of boring, preachy old folk who don't understand what it is like to be young and feeling bored and trapped, but a stark reality of the way Swiss unemployment rates have changed since the start of the Corona crisis. Here are just a few examples from the German-speaking Swiss press. Unemployment figures are up, to an unprecedented degree.

https://www.solothurnerzeitung.ch/so...beit-138121861
Solothurn: unemployment increased to 3%, 2260 firms on short work

https://www.nfz.ch/2020/05/die-zahl-...l-markant.html
Fricktal: significant increase in unemployed, way beyond seasonal fluctuations

https://hallowil.ch/leiterin-des-rav...gt-rasant.html
Wil: rapid increase in registrations at RAV

https://www.ag.ch/de/aktuelles/medie...846%20Personen.
Aargau: steep increase in unemployed and job-seekers

https://www.srf.ch/news/wirtschaft/f...uf-3-4-prozent
SRF news: in May, an increase to 3 to 4 percent
  • Knapp 156'000 Menschen waren demnach im Mai als arbeitslos gemeldet – das sind 2585 mehr als noch im April 2020, wie das Staatssekretariat für Wirtschaft (Seco) bekannt gibt.
  • Gegenüber dem Vorjahresmonat (Mai 2019) erhöhte sich die Arbeitslosigkeit um 54'628 Personen. Dies entspricht einem Plus von 53.9 Prozent.
  • According to the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (Seco), just under 156,000 people were registered as unemployed in May - 2585 more than in April 2020.
  • Compared to the same month last year (May 2019), unemployment rose by 54,628 people. This corresponds to an increase of 53.9 percent.


To go back to your original question:


The short answer is "no".
  1. If you start a German course before your file has be processed and your level of unemployment benefits determined, then those course fees will have to come out of your pocket.
  2. If you resign from your current job, then the RAV will count that as a reason to give you "penalty days". During that time, you are not eligible for any benefits... also not course fees.

The RAV, like everything else in Switzerland, is cantonal and municipal, which can influence the way things are done.

In general, the RAV offices have stringent requirements for their registered unemployed people, to send about 10 job applications per month, to appear for interviews with the assigned officer, etc., and as others have said, a lot depends upon the officer, and especially upon their sense of how motivated you are to get back to work.

Having said that, things are rather different now in these Corona-related exceptional circumstances. Many RAVs have a backlog that they can't yet cope with, and which they're now working through. Some RAVs have announced that, until further notice, they will permit registered persons to submit fewer applications. Many are not yet seeing the insured persons in their offices. In time, however, they will.

Such factors, taken together, mean that the RAVs are going to have to re-think its way of doing things. Whether or a RAV will cover the costs of a course is unlikely to be a decision that any RAV will be able to take quickly. And besides, with so many more currently registered people, and possibly more as the economy wobbles, I think it's likely that the extent to which any particular RAV has a budget (or influences a federal office which does) for paying for courses at all… will drop.

So here's my vote for: "Don't resign…. Yet."
I understand, but due to life problems and early signs of depression I feel like I must quit in the near future. When is the best time to do so? I will try to keep the job for as long as I mentally can, trust me
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Old 13.07.2020, 07:27
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Re: Quitting

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They will put you into any course, as long as you can prove them, that by completing the course, your chances of getting hired will drastically increase. Talk it over with your RAV advisor and see what the options are.
I need to move back to the German part of Switzerland. I don't want to go on a French course and the RAV here are insisting on it.
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  #51  
Old 13.07.2020, 08:51
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Re: Quitting

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Thanks everyone for their answers, I read every single one of them, sadly I couldnt answer for a while.

I have been having terrible days and avoiding coming online since I have noticed I am feeling very depressed lately, not only due to work factors but due to life problems outside of work..

I understand, but due to life problems and early signs of depression I feel like I must quit in the near future. When is the best time to do so? I will try to keep the job for as long as I mentally can, trust me
I'm sorry to hear you're feeling down. If you are mentally unwell, then please go and see a doctor.

Employees who are not well enough to work are entitled to a certain amount of sick-pay. Please consult your employment contract to see how much (% of your salary) for how many weeks (it usually depends upon how long you've been employed there).

If you are depressed (which I could understand), remember that this typically lowers one's energy levels and one's tolerance for anything that is annoying or not going as one would like it to do.

In that way, being depressed can to some extent make it harder to put in the mental effort needed to make wise decisions. For that reason, too, I'd like to encourage you to go and see a doctor, either your G.P. or a psychiatrist, so that he/she could help you to decide whether you need sick-leave and, if so, how best you could spend it, to restore your equilibrium.
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  #52  
Old 13.07.2020, 13:15
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Re: Quitting

Being depressed is not the best state of mind to make a decision about quitting your job. Maybe you could take care about your mental health first as depression is a medical condition that requires medical attention first!

Often we feel we need to make a quick career step, quit the current job, follow language training, take action, in the attempt to fix something that is caused by a set of other factors like overall stress of living in a foreign country, covid 19 fatigue, toxic workplace or any other form of abuse at work or at home. The last few months I heard many people around me speaking about changing jobs, moving to another region/country, having more time for what they value most!
Take a short medical leave from work to deal with depression and sadness, and rather than looking for german courses, give yourself a bit of time to recover and make space for a new way of looking at your life. What are your strengths today, what do you really enjoy doing, what gets you out of bed every morning, what story do you want to tell about these years in Switzerland in 10 years from now? You might not need to learn a new language and have the RAV pay for it, but re-calibrate your goal in line with what you are currently good at and enjoy doing.
But whatever you do, do not rush! Good luck!
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  #53  
Old 13.07.2020, 16:29
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Re: Quitting

People are beginning to practice self care. If a job is affecting you mentally or physically then seriously consider quitting and getting a new job. I would see a psychiatrist who can write you off.

I have been hearing a lot lately how people in management are not treating people very well at all. Many people are suffering from burn out. Many managers only know how judge and criticize rather than support and encourage.

Be very careful about who you listen to on this list.
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Old 14.07.2020, 09:47
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Re: Quitting

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People are beginning to practice self care. If a job is affecting you mentally or physically then seriously consider quitting and getting a new job. I would see a psychiatrist who can write you off.

I have been hearing a lot lately how people in management are not treating people very well at all. Many people are suffering from burn out. Many managers only know how judge and criticize rather than support and encourage.

Be very careful about who you listen to on this list.
Unemployment is also a contributor to depression. In today's climate, it is far more dangerous to quit now than ever.

OP, I have also been in your shoes. Sorry to hear that you are depressed. I would highly recommend going on medical leave for at least two weeks. Most doctors are very understanding and will help you. Perhaps also look into seeing a therapist, this has helped me immensely. Taking time to make the right decision is important and the needed rest will help quiet your mind during this difficult time.

Regarding German, I heard from a friend yesterday that she was actually punished by RAV recently for taking German intensive classes. Not only did they refuse to help pay for them, they also punished her for spending too much time in classes rather than looking for work. RAV is overloaded at the moment and it seems not as flexible as before.

Wishing you all the best.
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Old 14.07.2020, 17:40
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Re: Quitting

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Regarding German, I heard from a friend yesterday that she was actually punished by RAV recently for taking German intensive classes. Not only did they refuse to help pay for them, they also punished her for spending too much time in classes rather than looking for work. RAV is overloaded at the moment and it seems not as flexible as before.
It is very simple, if you decide to go on intensive classes of any kind then you are not available for work. Otherwise every student, housewife, early retirees etc... would also be entitled to claim benefits as well if they qualified for them.

It is a very different if the RAV decide that a particular course will help ensure you get of benefits.
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  #56  
Old 15.07.2020, 08:41
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Re: Quitting

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It is very simple, if you decide to go on intensive classes of any kind then you are not available for work. Otherwise every student, housewife, early retirees etc... would also be entitled to claim benefits as well if they qualified for them.
If you still apply for as many jobs as RAV demands that you do and are willing to drop your courses if work comes along, what is the problem? I think it is very unfair.

I really disagree. When else would you have time to go on intensive courses? Going on an intensive course (that you pay for) will also help you finally learn the language and be able to find more jobs. Please also keep in mind that RAV isn't considered "benefits". It is an insurance policy that everybody pays into and has to earn. I don't think you deserve it if you just quit your job, but for those who have lost their job, going to German everyday can help build routine and opportunities during a difficult time.
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  #57  
Old 15.07.2020, 18:20
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Re: Quitting

Personally, I quit in order to have energies to reorient my career, starting from an intensive language course.

I agree with Susie, it was the perfect and probably only time in this phase of my life to do it, and it has allowed me to build opportunities, including my current job.

OTOH I must also say, during the 3 months of intensive course I was actually not available for work. Partly I was exhausted from the previous experience, partly I was committed to the course, to reach a certain basic level. I was not even searching, in fear of having to drop my language project. I choose not to contact RAV in order to have this freedom.

I don't think RAV should assume it will be the same for every intensive student, but it's not without logic either. Maybe the RAV tutor saw, or believed to see, something unproductive in the specific case.
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Old 15.07.2020, 18:29
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Re: Quitting

Dear OP,

Let's put some hard number in your way of thinking.
First: let's assume RAV will not help you, so count a big 0 in your income for the next months (unlikely, you have a B permit, you are an EU citizen, you worked in Switzerland continuously for the last 12 months... if you check all these boxes you have the right to some support, maybe delayed, maybe reduced, but some income you will get).

If your goal for the next 3/6 months is to learn German, full-time, do you have enough money to sustain yourself for the next 3/6 months? would moving to a cheaper room help you?
Think about these money as an investment on yourself, not as costs.
You can apply and get a discount on your health-insurance if you have no income ( get in touch with https://www.svazurich.ch/internet/de/home.html ).

If the answer is no, you should absolutely consider moving temporarily to someplace like Frankfurt/Berlin/etcetc ... cheaper places, to learn german only (please consider that you will still need to pay a rent and health insurance in Switzerland to mantain your B-permit).

After these 3/6 months, you are ready for the job-hunting race in Switzerland, which may take you something between 3 months and 1 year, but you are young and you will find something.

Please remember it is your right to cure depression, depression is not a state of mind but a disease ... you have all the right to look for help, to take sickdays&co to heal and to improve your health. I am not an expert, but get in touch with foundations and with society helping depression/burnout.

Best of luck.
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Old 21.07.2020, 11:38
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Re: Quitting

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I heard from a friend yesterday that she was actually punished by RAV recently for taking German intensive classes.

your friend made the mistake here of telling RAV that she was doing the course. Really you need not to mention anything that does not involve looking for work. I would not even tell RAV about job interviews as you could be penalised for not accepting a job offer.
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  #60  
Old 26.07.2020, 02:30
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Re: Quitting

Thanks everyone... I just want to post a quick update.
I started this topic with the intention of going to rav and learn german, but at this time I think I might leave switzerland at any given time... This struggle made me get into depression, it all started because the job was too time consuming and stressful... And it ended with me losing my fiancee of years and years... I dont know why I am writing this here but I guess some of you would be interested, atm idk what to do, I might apply for work sick due to depression and then depends if I recover or not

If I dont the only way to heal myself is to go back home. We will see

But thanks so much for all the help and replies
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