Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24.08.2020, 22:43
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: zurich
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Jdoe has no particular reputation at present
Promotion pay raise

Hello, looking to get some thoughts on what a feasible pay raise might be when accepting a promotion?

In this case I would be moving from a IT specialist role to taking over the manger role as head of a team which consists of 5 people.
The team is responsible for a critical area of the business so it comes with quite a lot of responsibility.

I'm not sure as to what the swiss consider a adequate compensation raise for this type of promotions but from previous jobs (not in Switzerland) I know managers typically have around 25% higher compensation than the team specialists.
I also know that consulting jobs here in CH for similar specialist positions pay roughly 10% more than my current salary (including bonus, pension etc).

Would like to be somewhat prepared on what I can expect to have a better standpoint when discussing further.
Any expecience or feedback on the matter is highly appreciated!

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 25.08.2020, 09:03
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 1,108
Groaned at 245 Times in 143 Posts
Thanked 1,193 Times in 526 Posts
Troublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeable
Re: Promotion pay raise

Hahaha dream on!!

10% and you'll be lucky if you get that, a manager is no more important than a specialist who gets the job done. The world is full of managers, most of them truly incompetent. IT is the paradise of bad management.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Troublawesome for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 25.08.2020, 17:23
ipoddle's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 1,091
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,063 Times in 442 Posts
ipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputation
Re: Promotion pay raise

I've worked for several managers (roughly in IT) and I know I was being paid more than them...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ipoddle for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 25.08.2020, 17:34
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,508
Groaned at 217 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 7,420 Times in 3,283 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Promotion pay raise

Techies are more important. The same salary or a little bit more, but certainly not 25%.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25.08.2020, 18:43
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: zurich
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Jdoe has no particular reputation at present
Re: Promotion pay raise

I would still keep all of my current duties in addition to new management tasks and added responsibility..
Can't really see the motivation for accepting added stress and workload without monetary incentment.
Maybe the swiss value the glory of having a nice title too much, I don't..
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jdoe for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 25.08.2020, 20:15
Cherub's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Baselstadt
Posts: 811
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 970 Times in 433 Posts
Cherub has a reputation beyond reputeCherub has a reputation beyond reputeCherub has a reputation beyond reputeCherub has a reputation beyond reputeCherub has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Promotion pay raise

I think they do like titles, OH is in software development in a bank and his title is Associate Director which means nothing, but it's to do with where he is on the salary scale.

It was the same with Japanese and American companies when I worked in the City, even the PAs had ridiculous titles.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25.08.2020, 20:53
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zug
Posts: 213
Groaned at 20 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts
NikItaly has made some interesting contributions
Re: Promotion pay raise

No way, it's not said you're gonna get a pay rise at all, even because your team is very small.
Furthermore, if you're gonna still have SW dev duties along with people management ones, it looks like more a dev lead role.
How much budget are you gonna manage? Are you gonna do performance reviews?
Contrarily to what you guessed, unless you're not in the old-style banking world, it's very likely your wage will be aligned or a bit lower to the one of the top individual contributors of your team. This is very common, specially in modern IT setups.

Last edited by NikItaly; 25.08.2020 at 21:57.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25.08.2020, 22:21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 367
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 383 Times in 167 Posts
Ryan_CH is considered knowledgeableRyan_CH is considered knowledgeableRyan_CH is considered knowledgeable
Re: Promotion pay raise

Do not expect much unless you are changing your band. It might well be <5%.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26.08.2020, 00:49
Flying Kite's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Carouge GE
Posts: 167
Groaned at 88 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 171 Times in 97 Posts
Flying Kite has an excellent reputationFlying Kite has an excellent reputationFlying Kite has an excellent reputationFlying Kite has an excellent reputation
Re: Promotion pay raise

...usually in IT, specialist earning more than managers by 10% or more...real IT specialist will never be an manager...as an IT manager is a 'lot of bla-bla'...specialist is do the thing...if you at the position as leading specialist...then you deserve 25% increase...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26.08.2020, 19:20
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: zurich
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Jdoe has no particular reputation at present
Re: Promotion pay raise

Thanks for the feedback so far, not too encouraging but still helpful =)

In case I was a bit unclear, I would be stepping up within the same team I am currently working in - to become lead/head of that same team. Since the team is not so big I would still keep doing most of my current specialist tasks in additon to the new; responsibe for the areas that the team manages, line manager, performance reviews etc.

Agreeing on a compensation level im happy with will anyway be cheaper than going for an external hire so I remain hopeful. If not all monetary I will try to push for more vacation days etc...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 26.08.2020, 20:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 5,112
Groaned at 122 Times in 80 Posts
Thanked 7,768 Times in 2,879 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Promotion pay raise

I was in a similar situation many years back. I was a senior techie in a project team of 8 where the PM wanted to take a step back for family reasons and I offered to pick up as I wanted some experience of management. I also had to take continue taking care of quite a few of the technical tasks I had done to date.

In the end it was quite stressful. The business-side PM was a bit of a <automoderated> and I was actually quite good at the job in the end, but I found I don’t like politics and after a year I decided to go back to being 100% techie.

I didn’t get paid more at the time, but I got a couple of decent pay rises in subsequent performance reviews, and got a better insight into the trials and tribulations of what the PMs have to put up with.

If the role interests you, maybe go for it for picking up the experience - and as for money, if you don’t ask you won’t get, and set a time limit for when to change roles if you decide it is not your particular bag.

Cheers,
Nick
__________________

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank nickatbasel for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 26.08.2020, 23:33
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 1,108
Groaned at 245 Times in 143 Posts
Thanked 1,193 Times in 526 Posts
Troublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeable
Re: Promotion pay raise

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for the feedback so far, not too encouraging but still helpful =)

In case I was a bit unclear, I would be stepping up within the same team I am currently working in - to become lead/head of that same team. Since the team is not so big I would still keep doing most of my current specialist tasks in additon to the new; responsibe for the areas that the team manages, line manager, performance reviews etc.

Agreeing on a compensation level im happy with will anyway be cheaper than going for an external hire so I remain hopeful. If not all monetary I will try to push for more vacation days etc...
A Dev Lead is not a tech role, it's just a different job than a programmer. I am one so I know what I am talking about, I did the switch a few years ago and the money is really no different than a senior DEV. 5-10% more if you are lucky. I now spend less than 10% of my time coding, 30% reviewing code and 60% managing the project and team. Basically I am the bulldozer that removes obstacles from their way so they can code.

It is indeed a lot more stress and responsibilities for very little money but this path has a sustainable career path for the next 20 years. You can't code forever, soon enough the young kids come in with all their fancy new languages and you with 2 kids and a mortgage just can't keep up and probably don't care to. Your experience in managing them is a lot more productive than any code you would have written if you are good at what you do.

And it makes it easier to follow the management path later: Director, ED, CTO/CIO of a startup etc. That's when you start making some money, closer to the 200k mark.

Soon enough anyone will be able to hire a remote developer in Romania and Bangalore for 40k a year and it'll be harder and harder to justify 130k dev salaries in CH. Won't happen soon but it will happen.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Troublawesome for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 27.08.2020, 00:17
Squeeeez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Frauenfeld
Posts: 989
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 956 Times in 438 Posts
Squeeeez has a reputation beyond reputeSqueeeez has a reputation beyond reputeSqueeeez has a reputation beyond reputeSqueeeez has a reputation beyond reputeSqueeeez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Promotion pay raise

I was always told, you get either the title or the raise, but rarely both at the same time.
Also, the lowest management position ("dev lead", "project manager", etc) are the worst. You get to feel the whole weight from above, but you still have to deal with real life. Once you move up it gets more abstract.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Squeeeez for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Pay] Raise mother hen Daily life 28 20.10.2019 09:49
Assura 25% raise papapapa Insurance 24 07.01.2016 20:02
Zug may raise tax rate bonaire Swiss politics/news 7 26.09.2015 09:05
What raise did you get? Karl Daily life 35 24.12.2013 09:20
asking for a raise? juice99 Employment 12 08.08.2009 08:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0