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Old 23.09.2020, 12:31
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Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

Hi IT Contractors,

I have a question for you . I hope you can help me. I was searching forum but found only outdated threads.

Here is the situation: I am also a contractor with ten years of experience working as a Java/Scala software engineer, developing microservices for banking sector.
I am thinking about moving to Zurich for a year or two.

All job offers I can find have "market rates" in the description so I am wondering what current "market rates" are for Zurich area? 100CHF, 150CHF, 200CHF (or maybe higher) per hour? I don't want to overshoot when negotiate.

Second question is about type of cooperation. Each country have some differences in that area.
As I researched, in Switzerland, an umbrella company would be the easiest/best choise for foreigner (EU), am I right? Setting up some kind of LTD might be tricky. What is your opinion/experience? Are there actually huge tax benefits with LTD schema in Switzerland?
What are your experiences with umbrella companies? Can you recommend or warn from cooperating with some specyfic agencies?

Looking forward for your answers.
Thanks,
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  #2  
Old 25.09.2020, 11:37
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

1000 chf a day seems to be the number I have seen

I have no idea what that means after employer and employee tax

If you took a perm job expect 160K plus 15% bonus plus pillar 2 pension
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Old 26.09.2020, 01:15
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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1000 chf a day seems to be the number I have seen

I have no idea what that means after employer and employee tax

If you took a perm job expect 160K plus 15% bonus plus pillar 2 pension
Hahahha...ohhhh...ah yes, hahahhaha!

160k is the new 120k I guess, should have realised it's Friday before reading this.
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Old 26.09.2020, 11:54
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

& 5-7% bonus...750-800 CHF per day is the new term unless the person is dealing with latest technology.
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Old 26.09.2020, 12:09
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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1000 chf a day seems to be the number I have seen

I have no idea what that means after employer and employee tax

If you took a perm job expect 160K plus 15% bonus plus pillar 2 pension

Lol, that's quite optimistic (and I do hire / manage software devs )
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Old 26.09.2020, 15:24
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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Lol, that's quite optimistic (and I do hire / manage software devs )
I have hired extensively for fx tech Java developers. Mid aged 35 years is around 160k and last years bonus numbers which I handed out were between 10-20%.

I am talking actual numbers in Zurich in banks

Specifically a vp who I mentored was earning 150 plus 8.4 tax free expenses plus 20 bonus. And he was not that happy. That’s pretty much what I have written
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Old 26.09.2020, 22:03
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

VP, at least where I work, is a serious management position, backed by vast range and depth of skills. Could be ie smaller team line manager, or the most senior member of some dev team. Must be very good at handling pressure and politics, long term, semi-constantly. Develops way more in MS Office products than actual code, never-ending series of meetings etc.

That's not the skillset OP has, where I work he would get max AVP and adequate compensation.

Maybe other banks are more generous with IT titles, but 10 years chopping code as external at some bank is a senior code monkey in my view. Good for some type of work, but managerial skills aren't typical experience for contractors. Banks don't hire for potential, but proven track record.
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Old 26.09.2020, 22:17
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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VP, at least where I work, is a serious management position, backed by vast range and depth of skills. Could be ie smaller team line manager, or the most senior member of some dev team. Must be very good at handling pressure and politics, long term, semi-constantly. Develops way more in MS Office products than actual code, never-ending series of meetings etc.

That's not the skillset OP has, where I work he would get max AVP and adequate compensation.

Maybe other banks are more generous with IT titles, but 10 years chopping code as external at some bank is a senior code monkey in my view. Good for some type of work, but managerial skills aren't typical experience for contractors. Banks don't hire for potential, but proven track record.
In ubs or CS every other person is a vp. Serious decision making happens at md level and even then group md level. When risk limits and trading limits are set are even higher often and board level

An avp is a few years out of university
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Old 26.09.2020, 22:46
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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VP, at least where I work, is a serious management position, backed by vast range and depth of skills. Could be ie smaller team line manager, or the most senior member of some dev team. Must be very good at handling pressure and politics, long term, semi-constantly. Develops way more in MS Office products than actual code, never-ending series of meetings etc.

That's not the skillset OP has, where I work he would get max AVP and adequate compensation.

Maybe other banks are more generous with IT titles, but 10 years chopping code as external at some bank is a senior code monkey in my view. Good for some type of work, but managerial skills aren't typical experience for contractors. Banks don't hire for potential, but proven track record.
This is very debatle. I have seen program managers that i would never hire to build my flats.

Basically they just compile reports and report to senior management.
Some jobs require negotiation, persuasion, vision and faith. I have seen team leads building their own company and growing from 1 to 500 employees.

A VP that works for 20 years in a bank tells me nothing. He just did his job, nothing else.
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Old 27.09.2020, 12:40
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

Since Scala is somewhat niche market I think you are in a better position to negotiate. But even then I doubt you will get significantly higher daily rate than 800-900 CHF all inclusive pre-tax.

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I have hired extensively for fx tech Java developers. Mid aged 35 years is around 160k and last years bonus numbers which I handed out were between 10-20%.

I am talking actual numbers in Zurich in banks

Specifically a vp who I mentored was earning 150 plus 8.4 tax free expenses plus 20 bonus. And he was not that happy. That’s pretty much what I have written
Would like to know what are these banks. Definitely not CS and UBS.
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Old 27.09.2020, 13:16
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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Since Scala is somewhat niche market I think you are in a better position to negotiate. But even then I doubt you will get significantly higher daily rate than 800-900 CHF all inclusive pre-tax.



Would like to know what are these banks. Definitely not CS and UBS.
I can tell you it is definitely for UBS/CS. And the figures were 2019 numbers - This years bonus is anyones guess - People expecting half of last years bonus
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Old 30.10.2020, 16:43
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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I have hired extensively for fx tech Java developers. Mid aged 35 years is around 160k and last years bonus numbers which I handed out were between 10-20%.
What does 'Mid aged 35 years' means?
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Old 28.09.2020, 10:49
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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Lol, that's quite optimistic (and I do hire / manage software devs )
Since you hire software devs, you should be able to answer the OP's question
Why don't you provide a number?, the question is clear.
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Old 27.10.2020, 14:19
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

Hi does anyone know how much EPAM chops off from the UBS salary, or just how much do they pay to permanent developers assigned to UBS. I have just heard from them. Is it just a cheap body lending business or maybe lending experts anywhere where the internal politics forbids to hire expensive staff?
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Old 27.10.2020, 14:53
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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Hi does anyone know how much EPAM chops off from the UBS salary, or just how much do they pay to permanent developers assigned to UBS. I have just heard from them. Is it just a cheap body lending business or maybe lending experts anywhere where the internal politics forbids to hire expensive staff?
I have no idea what cut of the salary they take.

My experience (as a customer, but working closely with the staff) is that they aren't just a bodyshop, they do try to grow their staff and provide support etc.

They also do more complete outsourcing, providing full teams and doing the majority of the organisational work. Plus consulting on various technical topics which is a direction for some of their staff.

On the whole they're one of the better IT resource companies in my experience.
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Old 27.10.2020, 16:21
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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Hi does anyone know how much EPAM chops off from the UBS salary, or just how much do they pay to permanent developers assigned to UBS. I have just heard from them. Is it just a cheap body lending business or maybe lending experts anywhere where the internal politics forbids to hire expensive staff?

As you talk about salary, it's not clear to me whether you're talking about becoming an employee of UBS, becoming an employee of a consultancy house, or becoming more like a contractor (contrived to be an employee of e.g. a bodyshop)
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Old 26.09.2020, 13:05
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Re: Software Engineer contract - current market rates - Zurich

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Hi IT Contractors,

I have a question for you . I hope you can help me. I was searching forum but found only outdated threads.

Here is the situation: I am also a contractor with ten years of experience working as a Java/Scala software engineer, developing microservices for banking sector.
I am thinking about moving to Zurich for a year or two.

All job offers I can find have "market rates" in the description so I am wondering what current "market rates" are for Zurich area? 100CHF, 150CHF, 200CHF (or maybe higher) per hour? I don't want to overshoot when negotiate.

Second question is about type of cooperation. Each country have some differences in that area.
As I researched, in Switzerland, an umbrella company would be the easiest/best choise for foreigner (EU), am I right? Setting up some kind of LTD might be tricky. What is your opinion/experience? Are there actually huge tax benefits with LTD schema in Switzerland?
What are your experiences with umbrella companies? Can you recommend or warn from cooperating with some specyfic agencies?


Looking forward for your answers.
Thanks,
I'm sorry nobody has actually answered your second question. Might not be the best choice for CH, considering the level of taxation is already quite low compared to other countries.
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