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  #21  
Old 04.10.2020, 18:07
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Re: Employment Law

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As a nanny, there is nothing unusual about working 24/7. If the family we work for goes away, we are there to look after everything until they return...... of course we go to sleep, but we are there to wake up with kids at night etc etc...
Clearly you are not working 24/7 but may be called to work, this is somewhat different but still probably illegal in CH.
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Old 04.10.2020, 18:18
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Re: Employment Law

As far as renewing your permit goes... as long as your pay is correct on your contract, I donít think the actual hours matter so much (for getting a new permit).

As far as being paid for 10 days quarantine before starting work.... thatís for you to negotiate with your employer. Not for a lawyer. Generally an employer would not pay you if you choose to leave the country. But maybe you can come to an agreement.

What jumps out to me, is that you shouldnít really be on a B permit, but on a G permit. And as you mainly live in the U.K. you should also be paying tax in the U.K.........and with Brexit who knows if that will even be possible soon..... so if you donít want to open a can of worms, you might want to think twice about correcting the contract and getting lawyers involved.
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  #23  
Old 04.10.2020, 18:21
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Re: Employment Law

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Clearly you are not working 24/7 but may be called to work, this is somewhat different but still probably illegal in CH.
Not illegal, but should be compensated
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/ho...ettdienst.html

Last edited by Sigh; 04.10.2020 at 18:21. Reason: Spelling
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  #24  
Old 04.10.2020, 18:33
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Re: Employment Law

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As far as renewing your permit goes... as long as your pay is correct on your contract, I donít think the actual hours matter so much (for getting a new permit).

As far as being paid for 10 days quarantine before starting work.... thatís for you to negotiate with your employer. Not for a lawyer. Generally an employer would not pay you if you choose to leave the country. But maybe you can come to an agreement.

What jumps out to me, is that you shouldnít really be on a B permit, but on a G permit. And as you mainly live in the U.K. you should also be paying tax in the U.K.........and with Brexit who knows if that will even be possible soon..... so if you donít want to open a can of worms, you might want to think twice about correcting the contract and getting lawyers involved.
G permit returns return home at least once a week, so a no go.

Dual tax residency is likely.
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Old 04.10.2020, 18:34
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Re: Employment Law

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Not illegal, but should be compensated
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/ho...ettdienst.html
Depends on the total no oh hours actually worked in any week.
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Old 04.10.2020, 19:06
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Re: Employment Law

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G permit returns return home at least once a week, so a no go.

Dual tax residency is likely.
Well technically she's home more than that, it's just not a weekly routine. To maintain a B permit, mustn't your centre of life be in Switzerland and mustn't you spend more than 50% of the year here? (Guessing this will become more important after Brexit transition). Tax very likely.
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Old 04.10.2020, 19:16
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Re: Employment Law

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Well technically she's home more than that, it's just not a weekly routine. To maintain a B permit, mustn't your centre of life be in Switzerland and mustn't you spend more than 50% of the year here? (Guessing this will become more important after Brexit transition). Tax very likely.
She does not go at least once a week to the UK which is the rule. Nothing to interpret 'average' is not mentioned.
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Old 05.10.2020, 06:57
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Re: Employment Law

Good morning
I am here legally, on a B permit as I work a minimum of 10 days, but most months I work more. ie Aug - 14 days, Sept - 20 days, Oct - 16 days etc etc.
From that side itís all above board. As far as taxation goes, that was also explained to me in the beginning by the swiss tax attorney and my account in the UK. I do not need to pay tax twice, I pay tax in Switzerland as it is the higher rate, so I donít need to pay on the Uk side again.
As for hours, yes, it is 24/7. I live in when at work, I am responsible for the children at all times, I have a special needs child who I have to get up with at night too. This is not abnormal for a nanny at all. I was hoping to get information on my holiday structure and self isolation as those are the parts I am struggling with. I am also happy to hear I wonít be getting into trouble regarding the hours my employer says Iím working etc.
Thank you all for your help. Is there perhaps an a way to find an employment lawyer on the forum? 🙏🙏🙏
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  #29  
Old 05.10.2020, 09:14
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Re: Employment Law

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Good morning
I am here legally, on a B permit as I work a minimum of 10 days, but most months I work more. ie Aug - 14 days, Sept - 20 days, Oct - 16 days etc etc.
From that side itís all above board. As far as taxation goes, that was also explained to me in the beginning by the swiss tax attorney and my account in the UK. I do not need to pay tax twice, I pay tax in Switzerland as it is the higher rate, so I donít need to pay on the Uk side again.
As for hours, yes, it is 24/7. I live in when at work, I am responsible for the children at all times, I have a special needs child who I have to get up with at night too. This is not abnormal for a nanny at all. I was hoping to get information on my holiday structure and self isolation as those are the parts I am struggling with. I am also happy to hear I wonít be getting into trouble regarding the hours my employer says Iím working etc.
Thank you all for your help. Is there perhaps an a way to find an employment lawyer on the forum? 🙏🙏🙏
You need to declare in the UK too, any Swiss tax given as credit however I doubt the Swiss tax is higher unless your salary is slightly above or below the UK personal allowance. Nannies earn a fortune or the English ones I know who work in London / Paris / Monaco & Moscow part time like you certainly do.
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Old 05.10.2020, 09:35
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Re: Employment Law

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You need to declare in the UK too, any Swiss tax given as credit however I doubt the Swiss tax is higher unless your salary is slightly above or below the UK personal allowance. Nannies earn a fortune or the English ones I know who work in London / Paris / Monaco & Moscow part time like you certainly do.
Interesting - I would love to know what you consider a fortune. Please send me some details as to where they found these jobs
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  #31  
Old 05.10.2020, 20:36
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Re: Employment Law

OP, it seems to me that since July 1 this year your job is mandatorily subject to a "Normalarbeitsvertrag", a normed contract signed off by the authorities. AFAIA, but IANAL, the conditions mentioned there are binding for all employees of said jobs/job groups. See this page by Kanton ZŁrich, also the link to the normative contract and regulations (direct link here).

They also mention Nannyverein Schweiz, certainly they can help you better than the bunch of foreigners that make up the majority population of this forum. After all you won't be the first to ask, English may well be their lingua franca. Since they're mentioned (thus implicitly recommended) by the Canton you can safely assume that they know their stuff. At the same time they're not an official part of the government, hence no obligation to rat you out if parts of your job aren't exactly within the legal limits.



Here's the parts of the Normalarbeitsvertrag I found particularly noteworthy:

Subject to what your job is actually seen as (au-pair, nanny, housekeeper), weekly fulltime work hours seems limited to 43 hours or less. Hours worked beyond that have to be paid for on top of your ordinary salary.

Another very interesting aspect WRT what's been disussed in this thread is ß36 and followings. It rules that the hours where you're basically on call (including the nights) need to be paid for with at least 35% of the normal hourly wage, or its calculated equivalent, but not less than 7 CHF. Being "called" turns the presence time into work time and is to be paid accordingly, with a 25% top-up during the night.

From this ("35% is at least 7 CHF") follows that your minimum hourly wage is 20 CHF. Considering your description of your common history that would seem awfully little, but at least this gives you the absolute minimum you know you're to be paid.

Another thing is that, given the above, your job situation is probably Ok in the legal sense, i.e. nothing to fear WRT the working permit. OTOH your employers may need to brace for a huge bill for your not-yet-paid-for hours worked during the last 9 years.

Best of luck!

ETA
It's not immediately clear to me whether 20 per hour is gross or net. Given the situation i'd take it as the minimum net, but excluding holidays and any form of overtime pay.

Last edited by Urs Max; 05.10.2020 at 20:59.
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  #32  
Old 07.10.2020, 07:55
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Re: Employment Law

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OP, it seems to me that since July 1 this year your job is mandatorily subject to a "Normalarbeitsvertrag", a normed contract signed off by the authorities. AFAIA, but IANAL, the conditions mentioned there are binding for all employees of said jobs/job groups. See this page by Kanton ZŁrich, also the link to the normative contract and regulations (direct link here).

They also mention Nannyverein Schweiz, certainly they can help you better than the bunch of foreigners that make up the majority population of this forum. After all you won't be the first to ask, English may well be their lingua franca. Since they're mentioned (thus implicitly recommended) by the Canton you can safely assume that they know their stuff. At the same time they're not an official part of the government, hence no obligation to rat you out if parts of your job aren't exactly within the legal limits.



Here's the parts of the Normalarbeitsvertrag I found particularly noteworthy:

Subject to what your job is actually seen as (au-pair, nanny, housekeeper), weekly fulltime work hours seems limited to 43 hours or less. Hours worked beyond that have to be paid for on top of your ordinary salary.

Another very interesting aspect WRT what's been disussed in this thread is ß36 and followings. It rules that the hours where you're basically on call (including the nights) need to be paid for with at least 35% of the normal hourly wage, or its calculated equivalent, but not less than 7 CHF. Being "called" turns the presence time into work time and is to be paid accordingly, with a 25% top-up during the night.

From this ("35% is at least 7 CHF") follows that your minimum hourly wage is 20 CHF. Considering your description of your common history that would seem awfully little, but at least this gives you the absolute minimum you know you're to be paid.

Another thing is that, given the above, your job situation is probably Ok in the legal sense, i.e. nothing to fear WRT the working permit. OTOH your employers may need to brace for a huge bill for your not-yet-paid-for hours worked during the last 9 years.

Best of luck!

ETA
It's not immediately clear to me whether 20 per hour is gross or net. Given the situation i'd take it as the minimum net, but excluding holidays and any form of overtime pay.
WOW!!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH 😊
You reply has been so helpful.
I received my renewed permit yesterday, so have and will continue to be legally here.
I really appreciate the links.
Have a fabulous day. 🦋🦋🦋🦋🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
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  #33  
Old 07.10.2020, 09:20
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Re: Employment Law

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Iím more concerned about who pays isolation
You do.

Tom
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Old 07.10.2020, 09:31
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Re: Employment Law

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Good morning
I am here legally, on a B permit
If you are here on a B permit, than your main place of residence is considered to be Switzerland. Your travel to the UK is purely for your own personal pleasure and neither work nor residency related. On the other hand if you had a cross border commuter permit G we could talk about compensation and such.
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Old 07.10.2020, 14:23
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Re: Employment Law

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If you are here on a B permit, than your main place of residence is considered to be Switzerland. Your travel to the UK is purely for your own personal pleasure and neither work nor residency related. On the other hand if you had a cross border commuter permit G we could talk about compensation and such.
Thanks for that. I shall pop off to visit my family asap 🙏
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Old 07.10.2020, 14:24
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Re: Employment Law

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You do.

Tom
Hello Tom,
You sound ďvery sureĒ of that. May I ask where you got that information? 🙏
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  #37  
Old 07.10.2020, 15:15
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Re: Employment Law

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If you are here on a B permit, than your main place of residence is considered to be Switzerland. Your travel to the UK is purely for your own personal pleasure and neither work nor residency related. On the other hand if you had a cross border commuter permit G we could talk about compensation and such.
Whilst that is true for Swiss taxation & other matters the UK will still consider the person UK resident for tax purposes as they spend too much time in the UK.
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