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  #21  
Old 06.10.2020, 16:36
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

@karl why not just ring SVA: https://svazurich.ch/ and simply ask? They the AHV people and basically they are the only ones to worry about (given you will add invoices to your tax summary)
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  #22  
Old 06.10.2020, 17:18
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

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@karl why not just ring SVA:
Because they'll only give answers that he doesn't like. What he wants is

"Yes, go for it. It'll be fine and work out lovely, as you stroll into the bright new sunlit future, with global trade deals and unicorns..." Ooops. Sorry, went a bit brexitty there....

I really don't understand the mentality of people who ask a question, and then when they don't like the answers get all arsey. At least I am taking the piss. The others were wanting to help.
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  #23  
Old 06.10.2020, 18:48
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

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What exactly is your problem? You've had your questions answered. Here's a summary:
Yes.

You do. You will not have multiple clients and so will not qualify.

Every job has its own AHV liability quite independently of any other job, so this is utterly irrelevant.

Well, they will reject your application. How you behave after that is entirely up to you. If you choose to work for them via invoice and forget any paperwork, and your client doesn't object, you might get away with it. But it isn't in accordance with the rules, and if they find out, they will hit your client with a bill for the AHV you haven't paid.

There we are. All your questions answered (again).
I call bullshit. Knee-jerk answer as if you know what you're talking about. You don't. I will do the footwork and phonework and get back to you with the real answer. This forum sucks because most people answer based on opinion dressed up as fact.
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Old 06.10.2020, 19:57
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

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I call bullshit. Knee-jerk answer as if you know what you're talking about. You don't. I will do the footwork and phonework and get back to you with the real answer. This forum sucks because most people answer based on opinion dressed up as fact.
So why are you still here and why are you threatening to come back?
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  #25  
Old 06.10.2020, 20:05
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

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I call bullshit. Knee-jerk answer as if you know what you're talking about. You don't. I will do the footwork and phonework and get back to you with the real answer. This forum sucks because most people answer based on opinion dressed up as fact.

You can call Bullshit if you like. Doesn't make you any less wrong/any more right.


Several of the people who have answered your question on here have genuine expertise or experience in exact the area you discuss. Just look at some of their past posts and you will see.


Kind regards




Ian
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  #26  
Old 06.10.2020, 22:46
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

Some good advice and some red-herrings I must admit.


OP wants to do some work "on the side", while working a regular job as an employee. He calls this "freelancing" meaning he doesn't want to be employed by this company.



He wants to know how to go about it and thinks he might have to register as "self-employed"

He can't actually register as "self-employed" as he doesn't meet the Swiss requirements for this. In the UK, for example, this might be possible depending on the nature of the work, which is what some are trying to get at. Here and there, you would have to be able to show or convince that you are "a business in your own right" otherwise tax is due by the client. Even if this were the case, the Swiss make it easy -the OP wouldn't be eligible (not least because he's already employed).


So he asks what his options would be.
In the UK, formerly one would set up a company and this route is usually used as a tax avoidance contrivance. UK taxman has tried for a number of years to crack down on this. In Switzerland the view is similar. If it looks like you're an employee, someone has to pay the tax that an employer would have paid. OP can't do that as "self-employed".
OP could open a company here but might run into the same problem. If he declared all the company earnings as salary to him as an employee then it might work(?) In any case it's a bit of a hassle for what might be temporary.

Usually the only practical way to go about it is to instruct a payroll company who would essentially contrive an employment relationship with the freelancer and a bone-fide company to client relationship. They would bill the client and pay the freelancer a variable salary. It is purely a contrivance to get around the liability of taxes falling on the hiring company but the Swiss don't mind too much as they get the taxes. I'm not sure how easy it would be for the OP to find one willing to take his situation on.


As for simply declaring extra income on the tax form, I have no knowledge of this. In a couple of posts above which contain good info it is suggested to contact the tax authorities and ask, which I think is a good idea. Simply to be able to put the amounts into a tax return and receive a bill for taxes owed would be great, but somehow I think that would be too easy.
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  #27  
Old 07.10.2020, 00:11
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

Karl,
It’s good advice and it’s correct.

You are allowed to earn up to 2300 CHF (only) per year for an individual service without being subject to social securities.
You may add this with your salary sheet from your employer when you prepare your tax declaration
Above 2300 CHF you are subject to social securities.

Those social securities are either paid by the person/company for whom you are doing «freelance» work, hence you’re not really freelancing, you’re basically employed in a 2nd job
Or
You pay your own social securities.
But to do so you’ve got to register as an independant and you’ve got to prove you have 10 customers (it’s 10 I believe, please correct me if I’m wrong)

It’s a risk....
I think there’s additional catch.... something like from the moment you become an independent, you’re no longer entitled to RAV if you need it, even if you have an employer in addition to being an independent.
I’m really not sure.. please if anybody could confirm or correct this, that would be much appreciated.

Not sure you can become an independent if you don’t have the viable 10 customers.

Hope this makes sense.
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  #28  
Old 07.10.2020, 16:03
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

As I understand it, you can have a status of employed or self-employed and not both. Whether that means if you declare self-employed for a second job your existing employer becomes your first client thus passing the "more than one client" rule I don't know.


BTW in the UK there was a case ruling that one could in fact be classed as self-employed when working for a single client and using the client's equipment as long as they otherwise were not working "like an employee" so the Swiss rules seem rather harsh but do help to avoid a grey area.
For example, if I hire a builder and it so happens that I always have enough work for that builder and I insist the builder uses a piece of my equipment for quality control purposes then the builder doesn't automatically become an employee. He doesn't have to refuse my work to take someone else's to prove he's self-employed.
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  #29  
Old 07.10.2020, 17:33
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

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As I understand it, you can have a status of employed or self-employed and not both. Whether that means if you declare self-employed for a second job your existing employer becomes your first client thus passing the "more than one client" rule I don't know.

It is possible and somewhat common to be an employee and also be part-time self-employed. Moneyhouse notes (translated):

"A part-time, self-employment is not only permitted in Switzerland, but is becoming increasingly popular. In 2017, about 7.6% of the workforce will have more than one job, compared to 4.0% in 1991. Around 19.4% of the 352,000 so-called multiple-jobholders are self-employed."

https://ratgeber.moneyhouse.ch/strat...-man-beachten/
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  #30  
Old 07.10.2020, 17:42
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

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I call bullshit
Nice of you to admit it.
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  #31  
Old 07.10.2020, 18:58
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

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As I understand it, you can have a status of employed or self-employed and not both. Whether that means if you declare self-employed for a second job your existing employer becomes your first client thus passing the "more than one client" rule I don't know.
Complete & utter rubbish, it's possible to be part time self employed, such a status is even possible when receiving RAV benefits.

1 year 1 had 8 employers in 3 cantons, Part time self employment & RAV benefits. Part self employment in 1 months with a RAV payout & other months with multiple employers plus self employment.
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  #32  
Old 07.10.2020, 19:19
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

I stop reading the thread, when Karl didn't like the answer for the second time.

First, question: Why ask when you "know" already the answers?

Can you have one client? Possible. Specially at the beginning and when it is not 100%. But as mentioned it might pretty soon become a case of "Scheinselbständig" (fake independent). The is a problem for the pseudo freelancer as well as the company hiring the freelancer. Suddenly standard labor law notice periods might apply, insurance premiums, and pillar 2 contribution have to be back paid for several years.

A criteria of you are a freelancer or not is if you can organize your time as you wish and reject work as you go.

Hiring a freelancer will hardly be cheaper if the freelancer bills the company correctly. A freelancer never the less has to pay social security and wants something extra for general risk, retirement savings, sick days and holidays.

Some more information:
https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/2.02.e
https://payrollplus.ch/rechtliches/s...r-unternehmen/
https://www.beobachter.ch/arbeit/arb...der-angestellt
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  #33  
Old 07.10.2020, 20:34
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

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Question: do I have to register as "Selbstandig"
No.
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What do I do if they reject my application because of having only one client?
Ignore it.
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Can I just work for them, send invoices, and forget about any other paperwork?
Yes

Moderators - you can close the thread now. It's answered entirely to the OP's satisfaction.
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  #34  
Old 07.10.2020, 23:49
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

Could someone translate this for me in relation to declaring oneself as selbststaendig? Maybe it only refers to working for the same company.



Ist von der Ausgleichskasse der Statuswechsel vollzogen, gelten Sie überall als selbstständig erwerbend.
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  #35  
Old 08.10.2020, 00:40
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Re: Freelancing with just one client?

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Could someone translate this for me in relation to declaring oneself as selbststaendig? Maybe it only refers to working for the same company.
It is the Ausgleichskasse (Compensation office) which decides if someone is employed or independent (as said you can be employed for one activity, and be independent for an other). The decision of the Ausgleichskasse is also binding for others such as pension provider, work accident insurance etc.
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