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  #41  
Old 08.10.2020, 17:28
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

sound very much like my old company I resigned in Oct, I still got the bonus but it was a tiny, and I mean tiny fraction of what I'd go every other year, was paid in april, but they really might as well not bothered, it was the last F**k you from them to me.
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  #42  
Old 08.10.2020, 17:47
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

Can’t seem to quote. Glad to stand corrected on the legalese (thanks aSwissInTheUS), I was trying to point out the cut-off date: employer counter signs hand delivered letter of notice vs incoming registered letter w/o acknowledgment. As I understood OP’s issue – when are the wheels set in motion? Either way, a day or two apart – neither nuts, cigar nor bonus…
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  #43  
Old 08.10.2020, 19:52
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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The lack of a legal right to bonus is well understood. What would be interesting is, what constitutes "resign" and the effective date of a resignation from a legal standpoint.
Your contract and the relevant legislation makes it very clear on how you must proceed in order to terminate your contract.

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Logo123 and Bowlie seem to allude to the fact that in Switzerland you can announce my resignation with a future . Thus, if properly worded the resignation is effective as of the last day of the employment and as such, could I argue that I actually did not "resign before the payout of the bonus"?
Sorry but this is just a lot of waffle, you either follow the legal procedure as set out and resign nor you don't.

And in any case once you tell them you are leaving the bonus is gone and in fact they might decide to let you go sooner and save the salary as well.
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  #44  
Old 08.10.2020, 20:01
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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I have asked a simple question, under Swiss Law / Code of Obligation when is an employee deemed to have resigned, is it when the employee hands in his resignation or the last day of his employment?
You resign on the day you hand in your notice and you leave on the last day of the notice period. Not that it makes the slightest difference to your situation since you have not legal bases to challenge their decision on a bonus.

This is not a common law jurisdiction, there are not grey areas. If your contract does not specifically state that you are entitled to a prorate bonus, then you are not.
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Old 08.10.2020, 20:04
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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sound very much like my old company I resigned in Oct, I still got the bonus but it was a tiny, and I mean tiny fraction of what I'd go every other year, was paid in april, but they really might as well not bothered, it was the last F**k you from them to me.
Actually it reminds of a colleague at big bank... normally got 4 to 6 months salary as bonus. Ya, he got a leaving bonus alright - not even enough to buy himself lunch in the canteen at staff rates!
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  #46  
Old 09.10.2020, 09:18
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

Thanks everyone for the helpful contributions.
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  #47  
Old 09.10.2020, 17:16
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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Our discretionary bonuses are announced mid February and paid out end of March.

Allegedly you need to have not handed your notice in at the time of announcement to be paid. I know of no one in the 11 years I‘ve worked in the Swiss entity (rules in London are clear - resign before payout = forfeit bonus) who has taken the risk of resigning between their bonus being announced and it being in their bank account.

If it‘s worth so much, I would just wait. If you are so valuable to your new company they will either wait for you or offer to buy out your bonus.
I was actually wondering what is the rule around this. So if you received your bonus announcement letter and you resign shortly after, can they still retract it? I mean, I wouldn´t risk it, but is that letter legally binding?
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  #48  
Old 09.10.2020, 21:38
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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You resign on the day you hand in your notice and you leave on the last day of the notice period. Not that it makes the slightest difference to your situation since you have not legal bases to challenge their decision on a bonus.

This is not a common law jurisdiction, there are not grey areas. If your contract does not specifically state that you are entitled to a prorate bonus, then you are not.
To be clear here - you can hand in your notice and state a longer period before leaving than the minimum, I have done that once because it allowed my boss to open a vacancy a bit earlier so he filled the position to start immediately after I left.

But in most cases there isn't any point and significant risk - the company could in turn round and give you notice with the original minimum instead!
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  #49  
Old 10.10.2020, 15:20
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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I was actually wondering what is the rule around this. So if you received your bonus announcement letter and you resign shortly after, can they still retract it? I mean, I wouldn´t risk it, but is that letter legally binding?
I would imagine that very few companies would announce a specific figure for a bonus to a given person precisely to avoid this situation. It would have to be a very green HR person to do this (and if I were his boss, he'd probably soon be looking for a job himself!)
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  #50  
Old 10.10.2020, 18:26
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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I would imagine that very few companies would announce a specific figure for a bonus to a given person precisely to avoid this situation. It would have to be a very green HR person to do this (and if I were his boss, he'd probably soon be looking for a job himself!)

I think he means what happens if you resign right after receiving your bonus confirmation letter, which is usually given a week or 2 before the payroll runs.
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  #51  
Old 10.10.2020, 18:53
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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I was actually wondering what is the rule around this. So if you received your bonus announcement letter and you resign shortly after, can they still retract it? I mean, I wouldn´t risk it, but is that letter legally binding?
Yes it would be legally binding, same as anything else really.

But it may have small print... I've received bonus letters that explicitly state "as long as you are still employed and have not given notice".

Typically you don't get the letter until it's too late for them to change anything anyway; it's always a pain for managers to give them out just-in-time for payroll, we only have a couple of days but it's got to be done personally etc.
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  #52  
Old 10.10.2020, 20:12
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

Bonus calculation is a joke. the department head has a budget for the team that should be distributed based on performance but usually has no correlation and definitely not on merit. Resigning will instantly send a signal to everyone that they can expect their bonus allocation to increase. They have no incentive to pay out what you think you deserve - this is in my company anyway.
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  #53  
Old 12.10.2020, 16:40
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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I would imagine that very few companies would announce a specific figure for a bonus to a given person precisely to avoid this situation.
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Bonus calculation is a joke. the department head has a budget for the team that should be distributed based on performance but usually has no correlation and definitely not on merit. Resigning will instantly send a signal to everyone that they can expect their bonus allocation to increase. They have no incentive to pay out what you think you deserve - this is in my company anyway.
This is not always the case. As mentioned a couple of times, my last place paid my bonus 3 months after I started my new job.

The bonus at my last place and the current place is tied to audited numbers of the Group and/or Business Unit with measures such as: free cashflow, EBIT/EBITDA growth, net sales growth, sustainability targets etc. so you could calculate your entitlement yourself. The only thing that they could screw me on is individual performance but this would result in a small haircut and open themselves up to potential litigation if the historic (including most recent) performance review has been good.
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  #54  
Old 12.10.2020, 16:54
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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This is not always the case. As mentioned a couple of times, my last place paid my bonus 3 months after I started my new job.

The bonus at my last place and the current place is tied to audited numbers of the Group and/or Business Unit with measures such as: free cashflow, EBIT/EBITDA growth, net sales growth, sustainability targets etc. so you could calculate your entitlement yourself. The only thing that they could screw me on is individual performance but this would result in a small haircut and open themselves up to potential litigation if the historic (including most recent) performance review has been good.
Based on your first post this is simply not correct - you actually pasted this line from your contract:

"The employee does not have a right to receive any such payment or grant and any payments or grant made, cannot be taken as a precedent for future or further payments or grants."

It covers both the fact that you have no contractual right for this, and that historic trend is irrelevant.
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  #55  
Old 12.10.2020, 17:41
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

If you are going to quote me, I would appreciate it if you would at least not do a Trump and quote me selectively! The key sentences were:

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This is not always the case. As mentioned a couple of times, my last place paid my bonus 3 months after I started my new job.
This quote on the other hand relates to my current place that I am looking to quit.

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Based on your first post this is simply not correct - you actually pasted this line from your contract:

"The employee does not have a right to receive any such payment or grant and any payments or grant made, cannot be taken as a precedent for future or further payments or grants."

It covers both the fact that you have no contractual right for this, and that historic trend is irrelevant.
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  #56  
Old 12.10.2020, 17:43
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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This quote on the other hand relates to my current place that I am looking to quit.
Good, so we all agree you have zero chance of getting a bonus from your current place when you quit before payout?
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  #57  
Old 12.10.2020, 17:51
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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Good, so we all agree you have zero chance of getting a bonus from your current place when you quit before payout?
I don't know for certain... That is what I have gathered from my fellow Forumites... for now what I do know for certain is that my previous work place paid my full entitlement 3 months after I left.

I will report back on my current place once I have resigned and had it confirmed one way or the other
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  #58  
Old 12.10.2020, 18:09
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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I don't know for certain... That is what I have gathered from my fellow Forumites... for now what I do know for certain is that my previous work place paid my full entitlement 3 months after I left.

I will report back on my current place once I have resigned and had it confirmed one way or the other
It's a shame you left your old place, the new place will give you zero.
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  #59  
Old 12.10.2020, 18:51
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

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This is not always the case. As mentioned a couple of times, my last place paid my bonus 3 months after I started my new job.

The bonus at my last place and the current place is tied to audited numbers of the Group and/or Business Unit with measures such as: free cashflow, EBIT/EBITDA growth, net sales growth, sustainability targets etc. so you could calculate your entitlement yourself. The only thing that they could screw me on is individual performance but this would result in a small haircut and open themselves up to potential litigation if the historic (including most recent) performance review has been good.
As far as I've seen it, I think that kind of arrangement, with a fixed entitlement, is rare for a bonus. Good for you that it was so at your previous employer.

Even where such parameters have explicitly been named, if the bonus is a bonus (as opposed to a definite part of the contractual salary package), it is frequently not considered guaranteed or any income to which the employee is necessarily legally entitled.

I've also seen those kinds of factors named, and then the senior management explained very nicely that here, folks, are all the figures of the bonus we would have liked to have paid you, but due to x, y and z, we're diminishing those by a factor of 0.4, so thanks, folks, that's all for now, and see you back in the office next week.
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  #60  
Old 12.10.2020, 19:58
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Re: Bonus payout when resigning

What does your HR group say? If this bonus is part of your formal STI or LTI compensation, the rules are usually very clear and not up to interpretation - similar to options or RSA's. Everyone knows the rules and why you often see people "hang on" until a certain milestone date passes to lock in a vesting or full payout.

If you are a manager, you should know these rules anyway.
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