Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17.10.2020, 14:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,013
Groaned at 126 Times in 62 Posts
Thanked 515 Times in 275 Posts
markalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputation
55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

So lost my job that was killing me anyway in September 2019, will lose my benefits in March 2021 I think.

Will be 55 by that point with rather slim prospects for employment it looks like.

Now I can survive on my investments making a monthly loss between 1-2K a month. Meaning I burn minimum 12K a year of my savings, more likely 18K a year.

Three years from now and with 60K less cash in the bank I can retire at 58? yes? How would take have worked? I will stop paying into a pension in March 2021 when chomage finishes.

How will it work? Anybody retired @ 58?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17.10.2020, 14:51
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,125
Groaned at 369 Times in 310 Posts
Thanked 14,105 Times in 6,567 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Intend to retire at 60, will use my Pillar 3 amounts to cover some years and intend to use my Pillar 2 to invest (no drawing of a pension in the future). At 64/65 Pillar 1 and the other minimal amounts I get from some countries plus a pension from one employer.

Case of doing your maths and check what you need per month
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 17.10.2020, 14:53
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,511
Groaned at 384 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 2,082 Times in 866 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Have you seen this?

https://www.laliberte.ch/news-agence...dinaire/556810

At 60 if you are on chômage you can get full pension benefits even if you don't work until your retirement.

This is new law voted few months ago

Ideally you work for 12 months at 59 and you can slide into retirement with the new law, albeit income level must be capped
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17.10.2020, 15:18
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,523
Groaned at 218 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 7,452 Times in 3,295 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Quote:
View Post
Now I can survive on my investments making a monthly loss between 1-2K a month. Meaning I burn minimum 12K a year of my savings, more likely 18K a year.

Be aware that you must still pay AHV and if you don't have an income it is calculated on assets.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 17.10.2020, 16:19
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,013
Groaned at 126 Times in 62 Posts
Thanked 515 Times in 275 Posts
markalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputation
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

OK, But what is AHV? And to whom do I pay it? Already exited last year for a few months to try and remain my sanity a little, signed back in January this year.

And what happens if I have gaps in payment? which I think I have since I have slipped in and out of the system before, all be it briefly.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank markalex for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 17.10.2020, 16:53
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,125
Groaned at 369 Times in 310 Posts
Thanked 14,105 Times in 6,567 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

AHV is pillar 1
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17.10.2020, 17:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,232
Groaned at 348 Times in 188 Posts
Thanked 5,918 Times in 2,710 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Quote:
View Post
OK, But what is AHV? And to whom do I pay it? Already exited last year for a few months to try and remain my sanity a little, signed back in January this year.

And what happens if I have gaps in payment? which I think I have since I have slipped in and out of the system before, all be it briefly.
Do you know what, I think that if you’re as far as identifying that you have gaps in your AHV payment, then you have already have access to all the necessary links.

Would be interested to know how this pans out for you - let us know! Maybe it could be useful to others on the site.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04.11.2020, 20:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,057
Groaned at 95 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 12,442 Times in 5,051 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Here's a good basic explanation of the Swiss pension system. The English versions use the German abbreviations, but by clicking at the top right, on FR or IT, you can get to the terms used in those language regions.

https://www.ch.ch/en/manage-retirement-provision/
How do I manage my retirement provision?
Swiss retirement provision is based on the three pillar principle. Pillar 1 consists of Old age and Survivors’ Insurance (AHV), Invalidity Insurance (IV), as well as supplementary benefits (for situations where pensions and income do not cover the basic cost of living). The 1st pillar is compulsory and should cover basic living expenses. Pillar 2 consists of an occupational pension (pension fund), which is also compulsory. The 3rd pillar is a voluntary private pension.

https://www.ch.ch/en/occupational-pension/
Occupational pension
How do occupational (2nd pillar) and private pensions (3rd pillar) work? How can you avoid gaps in AHV contributions? How can you cash in your pension fund in advance, and where can you apply for a new AHV card?
And here's more in-depth info on the Pension Pan (2nd Pillar): https://www.bsv.admin.ch/bsv/en/home...und-zweck.html

Last edited by doropfiz; 04.11.2020 at 21:30.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04.11.2020, 21:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,057
Groaned at 95 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 12,442 Times in 5,051 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

OP, here's what to do if you're trying to tidy up and check that you've got all the parts together, and as few gaps as possible:

First Pillar: Apply to the AHV for a current statement.
Check this against all the periods you've lived in Switzerland (or, if Swiss, lived abroad, too), to be sure that each employer really did register you with the AHV and really did pay in your contributions, or that the unemployment office did, or that you yourself did, during any intervals between jobs. If you see that you had any lax employers who neglected to pay in your contributions as they ought to have done, chase them up to catch this up. If they won't, report that to the AHV. If you have gaps, apply to be allowed to fill them by contributing now. This is allowed only within some limited framework.
Second Pillar: Pension Plans of Employers
As you leave each employer in Switzerland, the employer (or their pension fund) is supposed to inform you of your vested benefits from the employer's Pension Plan. The law on this is called, in German, BVG, and some companies offer benefits which extend beyond those legally prescribed in the BVG. This pot of vested benefits must be transferring into the pension scheme of the next employer. Where there is no employer for a while, the pot is parked, and waits, until you get a job with the next employer.

Therefore, ditto, check for each employer that they did, in fact, properly insure you in their pension scheme, and did, in fact, transfer your vested benefits out, and that you properly transferred them into the next pension plan. Anyone who has had has several employers, perhaps been unemployed, been away, come back, been employed again, does well to check all the dates to make sure some pot hasn't been left behind somewhere along the way.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 04.11.2020, 22:16
BasP72's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Adliswil (close to Zurich)
Posts: 1,921
Groaned at 82 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,777 Times in 848 Posts
BasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Intend to retire in 2 years at 50, looking at Puglia at the moment (but this changes every monrh, so... )
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank BasP72 for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 04.11.2020, 23:06
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,767
Groaned at 72 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 1,928 Times in 1,114 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Quote:
View Post
How would take have worked? I will stop paying into a pension in March 2021 when chomage finishes.

How will it work? Anybody retired @ 58?

I'm not quite sure what the question is. In general if you have a company pension (pillar 2) which is based upon the value of the pension pot, when you retire that pension pot amount is converted into an annual payout. The pension company can tell you how much. There might be options to take a lump sum. That's pretty much it.

I know with pillar 3 you can choose when to 'activate' each one you have but I have no idea if you can do that with separate pillar 2 pensions or even indeed if separate ones can exist.


AHV/Pillar 1 is the state old age pension and is a relatively small amount and based upon the number of contributing years.


Hopefully an early retiree will come along and comment.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04.11.2020, 23:25
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,135
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Quote:
View Post
Intend to retire at 60, will use my Pillar 3 amounts to cover some years and intend to use my Pillar 2 to invest (no drawing of a pension in the future). At 64/65 Pillar 1 and the other minimal amounts I get from some countries plus a pension from one employer.

Case of doing your maths and check what you need per month
Yep but pay the minimum AHV (pillar 1) up until you actually retire. Or the pay outs will drop! So called "Lücken" are really to be avoided, there is a minimum for people not working.

OP what ever you do, do not stop paying pillar one. Register with the Vaudoise equivalent of SVA. I'm sure someone living "down there" can tell you the link.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05.11.2020, 07:14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Vaud
Posts: 258
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 113 Times in 78 Posts
Gravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of many
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Quote:
View Post
So lost my job that was killing me anyway in September 2019, will lose my benefits in March 2021 I think.

Will be 55 by that point with rather slim prospects for employment it looks like.

Now I can survive on my investments making a monthly loss between 1-2K a month. Meaning I burn minimum 12K a year of my savings, more likely 18K a year.

Three years from now and with 60K less cash in the bank I can retire at 58? yes? How would take have worked? I will stop paying into a pension in March 2021 when chomage finishes.

How will it work? Anybody retired @ 58?
From an earlier thread I know that you can develop apps. Is it your main professional activity or one you could do and enjoy doing?

Talking about surviving till legal retirement sounds a bit depressing. If you are a software developer find some interesting remote work. Don't look at the money, but rather find something agreeable which you would enjoy doing and it pays the bills. Between 1 and 2 k a month should be easy to get. I would leave the savings for later.

If your main professional skills are not related to software development, and are not fit for a remote home work, you may look to expand your horizon, try something new in life. For example create paid courses which you can publish via udemy, write professional books, etc.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Gravity for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 18.11.2020, 04:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,057
Groaned at 95 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 12,442 Times in 5,051 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Quote:
View Post
So lost my job that was killing me anyway in September 2019, will lose my [unemployment?] benefits in March 2021 I think.

Will be 55 by that point ...

Now I can survive on my investments ... burn minimum 12K a year of my savings, more likely 18K a year.

Three years from now and with 60K less cash in the bank I can retire at 58? yes? How would take have worked? I will stop paying into a pension in March 2021 when chomage finishes.

How will it work? Anybody retired @ 58?
The First Pillar is AHV (in German) and AVS (in French) and there is no problem at all to just keep contributing. While one is employed, the employer makes this deduction and pays it in, then while unemployed the unemployment office takes on that function. After all unemployment benefits are used up, the person themselves has to pay in, directly to the AHV/AVS.
At normal retirement age (64 for women, 65 for men), that AHV/AVS is paid out. Alternatively, one can take an early retirement pension 1 or 2 years before that age, while accepting a certain specified reduction.

Quote:
View Post
I'm not quite sure what the question is.
I think this question is about the Second Pillar (= pension plan of employer, according to the law called BVG in German, and LPP in French).

Quote:
View Post
In general if you have a company pension (pillar 2) which is based upon the value of the pension pot, when you retire that pension pot amount is converted into an annual payout. The pension company can tell you how much. There might be options to take a lump sum. That's pretty much it.
...
Hopefully an early retiree will come along and comment.
Recently I was part of a conversation, with all Swiss people. The explanations diverged considerably, such that everyone felt the discussion had added a layer of confusion to the topic. Can anyone undo that and shed light (and links) on the matter, please?

Here are the scenarios they described, and how the explained them. Which is right?
Scenario 1.
  • Those who stop being employed have their last accumulated pot of vested benefits paid into a substitute fund, which stands in lieu of the last employer's pension fund.
  • Upon reaching normal retirement age, the insured person will be entitled to an old-age pension from that substitute fund.
Scenario 2.
  • The obligation of the employer's pension plan to extend cover does not cease until another pension scheme takes over. Therefore, anyone who has not found new employment continues to be included in the insurance cover of the pension plan of their last employer.
  • Upon reaching normal retirement age, the former employee will be entitled to an old-age pension from pension plan of that last employer.
Scenario 3.
  • Once one is no longer employed, one no longer has anything to do with, nor any claim against, the former employer or their pension plan (except if disabled and receiving a disability pension from that plan). Instead, the vested benefits are blocked, but they are merely parked and waiting, and not insuring anything, neither old-age nor disability.
  • Upon reaching normal old-age, there is no pension, but the formerly insured person receives the entire pot paid out as a lump sum.
Scenario 4.
  • If a person is disabled, they receive a disability pension from the pension plan.
  • Upon reaching normal old-age, the disability pension stops and the old-age pension starts.
Scenario 5.
  • If a person is disabled, they receive a disability pension from the pension plan. If, before reaching normal retirement age, they cease to be disabled, the disability pension stops.
  • Then, one of the explanations 1., 2. or 3. (which?) will apply. The vested benefit pot is (or is not?) depleted for the years during which a disability pension was paid.
Could anyone please confirm or dispel any of these explanations, perhaps with links? Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 21.11.2020, 23:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,057
Groaned at 95 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 12,442 Times in 5,051 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

I'm bumping this, as the discussions are ongoing and neither my Swiss friends nor I have been able to figure it out. I must be looking in the wrong place(s).

Is anyone able to explain, please, which of these Scenarios 1. to 5. is/are the way things work, or not? Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 22.11.2020, 07:54
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,890
Groaned at 19 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,656 Times in 845 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

About paying into AHV when not working. We recently asked and got told that one does not need to do this. Is it dependant on the Ausgleichkasse? Ours in SVA in Zürich.

K
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank kri for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 22.11.2020, 08:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Olten
Posts: 559
Groaned at 59 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 448 Times in 268 Posts
hoover1 has earned the respect of manyhoover1 has earned the respect of manyhoover1 has earned the respect of many
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

if I am not mistaken starting January new law is introduced where at age of 58 one may remain in the Pillar 2a of the employer regardless if ones employment status. So that "Freizügigkeitskonten"accounts are no longer required for unemployed and that (in my understanding) should provide all the accident coverage etc.

There is also something called "Überbrückungsrente" - that starts at 60 . Have an look and see whenever you could benefit from that - talking to your local Gemainde they may find a person that could assist you.

RAV should also help with advise what they can do for you to get you across the finish line.

There is also Social benefits you may want to claim - start early with your Gemainde - worst case you be cutting grass around the park ( which in itself may be relaxing job)

I guess you may think also of teaching english to Swiss children

My view is - you need support to start again! Look for it and you'll find it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank hoover1 for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 22.11.2020, 09:43
stephen_NE's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Luzern
Posts: 1,461
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1,540 Times in 732 Posts
stephen_NE has a reputation beyond reputestephen_NE has a reputation beyond reputestephen_NE has a reputation beyond reputestephen_NE has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Quote:
View Post
Have you seen this?

https://www.laliberte.ch/news-agence...dinaire/556810

At 60 if you are on chômage you can get full pension benefits even if you don't work until your retirement.

This is new law voted few months ago
Only if you have less than 50K in assets though (quote from the same article):

Fortune nette
Un chômeur aura droit à une rente si sa fortune nette est inférieure à 50'000 francs (100'000 francs pour les couples). Cela implique que les personnes doivent vider leurs économies privées avant de toucher la rente-pont, a critiqué Maya Graf (Verts/GL). C'est une désincitation à la prévoyance privée dans le 3e pilier, a attaqué Alain Berset. Celle-ci est en effet comptée dans la fortune nette.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank stephen_NE for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 22.11.2020, 16:22
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Olten
Posts: 559
Groaned at 59 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 448 Times in 268 Posts
hoover1 has earned the respect of manyhoover1 has earned the respect of manyhoover1 has earned the respect of many
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

https://www.bsv.admin.ch/bsv/de/home...-chomeurs.html

you may park all your assets into self-occupied property to 'qualify'. I'd not go there until absolutely necessary however that exactly is to address "55-new-65" issue at hand.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 22.11.2020, 19:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,057
Groaned at 95 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 12,442 Times in 5,051 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 55 the new 65, but what happens to your pension

Quote:
View Post
About paying into AHV when not working. We recently asked and got told that one does not need to do this. Is it dependant on the Ausgleichkasse? Ours in SVA in Zürich.

K
If you are drawing unemployment benefits, then the unemployment office (the RAV, or Kasse) will pay in your AHV contributions to the SVA in Zürich. They do this for as long as they are paying you benefits.

If you are a married couple, and one is working and the other not (and also not drawing unemployment benefits) it could be that the contributions of the employed spouse are deemed to be sufficient to cover the non-employed spouse. This is akin to the so-called traditional family of husband working plus a stay-at-home housewife, only it is gender-neutral, so that it doesn't matter which spouse is contributing and which is not.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
pension




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pension enquiry - Defined Benefit Pension vs Defined Contribution Pension PeterSoliman Finance/banking/taxation 21 05.09.2018 11:34
2nd pillar / semi-autonomous pension funds / AXA Winterthur pension changes Dr Mick Insurance 10 13.04.2018 19:25
Pension cash in hand: Deposit into a CH pension or invest with Fundsmith? Horatio Gonzales Finance/banking/taxation 6 09.01.2018 23:34
Swisslife Pension fund - possibility to withdraw as opposed to transfer to EU pension zeteo Finance/banking/taxation 1 24.08.2017 09:58
Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?) babel Finance/banking/taxation 18 16.09.2015 12:06


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0