Hi

First time poster but always read these forums

From yesterdays announcement and insideparadeplatz it looks certain that I will be Rifd. I work at CS and am VP level

I have been in Zurich for five years to date always in the same team and my year end performance reviews have always been good or very good. I was even on the promo list last year but did not make it.

My question is as follows:

1) Is the RIF guaranteed to stay or can they change the rif policy?
2) How many months does rif buy me - I currently have three months notice but I heard that rif is another two months
3) If I get the blue letter do they have to give it to me in my hand or can they just post it to my address?
4) Is there any way to delay service of the blue letter by changing address / cantons on the day that the letter is delivered thereby forcing the employer to resend the letter
5) If I am sick whilst on the rif does that extend the rif period or not?
6) Is there any way to fight rif for being unfair etc?

As you can imagine this is very difficult time and I am scared. The department was doing quite badly even before but the signs are all there that this will happen.

If anyone has been through rif it would help a lot !

Sorry to hear this. My inputs and I am sure with others will build further. Assume RIF is organisation specific (RIF is a very banking term).

1) Is the RIF guaranteed to stay or can they change the rif policy?
Organisations can change their policy at any time unless they have an obligation to consult with Employee Reps. CH law is fairly flexible.
2) How many months does rif buy me - I currently have three months notice but I heard that rif is another two months
3) If I get the blue letter do they have to give it to me in my hand or can they just post it to my address?
Incase you cant/dont take it personally, it can be sent via post.
4) Is there any way to delay service of the blue letter by changing address / cantons on the day that the letter is delivered thereby forcing the employer to resend the letter
Not really.
5) If I am sick whilst on the rif does that extend the rif period or not?
Being on medical leave does get you some protection but you can still be made redundant if they so prefer.
6) Is there any way to fight rif for being unfair etc?
Employment laws in CH are very employer friendly so I would avoid UNLESS you have good legal insurance and your employer is very sensitive re. reputational risk. However this is quite a painful and negative process so avoidable unless absolutely necessary.

Hope things play out in your favour. Take care and keep a level head. And remember, dont react in the moment if it does happen. Let the emotions pass and then decide what you want to do.

__________________
Logotherapy
That which gives reason for being.

Very interesting thread and I’d be keen to hear from others who have gone through this

When you say in 6 that you can fight it if you have insurance what insurance are you talking about?? For some people this might be a great way of getting insurance now before the letters have been sent !! I guess the op is talking about discrimination or bullying as an excuse for fighting the rif

Sorry to hear bad news op

Sorry this is happening to you. Always a shock
CS has been "RIFing" for a number of years.

Giving you a couple more months pays is a "cover their ass" to prevent you complaining, claiming extra pay,refusing to take holidays during notice etc.

Cannot really fight it, in CH you can be fired as long as notice period is respected (general statement excluding severe mobbing or sexual harrassment or illegal practice etc for the purpose of this situation).

To be honest I would suggest to you that instead of trying tricks to extend by a month or so you take a deep breath, you mourn your situation and then accept it as something that just happens and focus your energy on finding a new job, navigating the RAV etc.

As said, CS has been doing this for years, they know how and yes, perhaps you can squeeze one more month of salary from them but at what cost?

Stay strong.

The op asked very specific questions about people experience with the rif process and in particular whether getting ill during this period would extend the rif period

So far that has not been answered and I would be keen to understand that in more detail

Look at post 2, some sensible answers. And apparently either not many peope are in to this or reluctant to disclose.

Ask the Union maybe?

Well it certainly was at UBS during the last recession. Early exiters got a retraining allowance, a lump sum payment etc... where are the later ones just got the extra notice period.




Don't know, but 2 months seems within reason for VP level



Most likely it will be done in person, with a requirement to sign an acknowledgement that you received it.



I would not recommend this tactic, I have know people that have found other positions within the company while working out the notice period and also people who where taken back once things improved.


If you play silly buggers you rule yourself out of those opportunities.



In reality no. They can terminate you at any time by following the procedure in your contract, there is not concept of unfair. You might delay it a while, but if they have decided you are going, you are going.




Well first of all it has not happened yet and it may not happen, there have been several times over my 30 years working in Switzerland where it looked like they'd close down the department I was working for and it only happened once in the end. And on that occasion I was only too delighted to exit.



And even if it does happen you have at least a two year buffer before it becomes critical. And by then the chances are good that you'll have found something else by then.




At at CS, but at UBS years ago now. And on that occasion the people that remained also lost - the work pressure created by having so few staff eventually drove many of them to resign and leave with nothing.


I know it does not feel like it now, but looking back you may realize that is not the worst outcome.

__________________
"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela

Without knowing the details - in general yes, sickness during notice period can extend the notice period but it depends on a number of factors and obviously it's there to protect people who are genuinely sick and not those who will run to get a doc certificate when served notice.

I think the reason people are reluctant to answer is that it's a real stupid tactic. You have to be fit to work to be on RAV and the banking world is a small one. The same HR people that will know you are trying to play the system are the ones writing your reference letter, answering reference calls and potentially evaluating you for hiring elsewhere in the bank either now or later.

So me personally I was trying to get OP to realize that he needs to accept what is happening and focus energy on getting a new job etc.

Bear in mind that RIF is not notice period, it is something else the bank is offering. So there is no way to know what the sickness rules are without seeing the contract.

But I echo the previous point - cheating is not the way to go. If you get caught they could fire you without notice, the RAV won't pay you initially, and then the RAV may make life harder for you because they won't trust you.