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Old 05.01.2021, 15:35
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Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

Hi all,


I have a quick question that I'd be super grateful for thoughts on.


I am working in CH on a fixed-term contract (CDD, contrat à durée déterminée). It was a 5 year contract that is now coming to its close. I have accrued a lot of vacation days over that period that are untaken.


There is a month left on the contract, I have about 3 months of vacation days left.


The question: am I entitled to ask for this as a cash payment at the end of the contract? And, if so, how do I go about doing so (HR where I work is very incompetent...).


Thanks!
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Old 06.01.2021, 12:53
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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Hi all,


I have a quick question that I'd be super grateful for thoughts on.


I am working in CH on a fixed-term contract (CDD, contrat à durée déterminée). It was a 5 year contract that is now coming to its close. I have accrued a lot of vacation days over that period that are untaken.


There is a month left on the contract, I have about 3 months of vacation days left.


The question: am I entitled to ask for this as a cash payment at the end of the contract? And, if so, how do I go about doing so (HR where I work is very incompetent...).
I think that in theory, unless they've insisted that you use or lose any additional vacation days each year, you should be entitled to them to be paid, yes.

Does your "incompetent" HR show you the number of vacation days, or is it just your count? If it's the latter, they may simply turn around, perhaps find some fine print in a contract, and tell you that accrued days from previous years are lost. But if they agree that you would be entitled to them you should either be given all of that time off, paid, at the end period of your contract, or paid a cash sum.

(Someone who knows may be along shortly to point out where I'm wrong, but I thought I'd bump the thread anyway as it had been on the moderator queue since yesterday.)
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Old 06.01.2021, 13:06
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

Working for a multinational company? Usually, the unused vacation days expire after one year. For example, vacations not taken on 2019 must be used on 2020 or bye bye. 3 months of vacations imply the accumulation of several years. Read you contract terms, maybe the vacation days don't exist at all in first place.
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Old 06.01.2021, 13:11
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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Hi all,


I have a quick question that I'd be super grateful for thoughts on.


I am working in CH on a fixed-term contract (CDD, contrat à durée déterminée). It was a 5 year contract that is now coming to its close. I have accrued a lot of vacation days over that period that are untaken.


There is a month left on the contract, I have about 3 months of vacation days left.


The question: am I entitled to ask for this as a cash payment at the end of the contract? And, if so, how do I go about doing so (HR where I work is very incompetent...).


Thanks!
Wow, you have left it really, really late to organise this... how can EF tell you how to do it when many companies are different? You obviously have to ask your HR about if and how this is possible.
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Old 06.01.2021, 13:36
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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Working for a multinational company? Usually, the unused vacation days expire after one year. For example, vacations not taken on 2019 must be used on 2020 or bye bye. 3 months of vacations imply the accumulation of several years. Read you contract terms, maybe the vacation days don't exist at all in first place.
That's incorrect.
Read this: https://www.arbeitsrecht-aktuell.ch/...ng-von-ferien/
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Old 06.01.2021, 14:14
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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Working for a multinational company? Usually, the unused vacation days expire after one year. For example, vacations not taken on 2019 must be used on 2020 or bye bye. 3 months of vacations imply the accumulation of several years. Read you contract terms, maybe the vacation days don't exist at all in first place.
This is not the case under Swiss law - companies say this to encourage usage as big vacation accruals are annoying but in reality vacation is never lost.
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Old 06.01.2021, 14:48
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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This is not the case under Swiss law - companies say this to encourage usage as big vacation accruals are annoying but in reality vacation is never lost.
Yes, ours carry over every year (with management approval). There is no way they are going to take peoples holidays away without riots going on.
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Old 06.01.2021, 14:53
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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Yes, ours carry over every year (with management approval). There is no way they are going to take peoples holidays away without riots going on.
Even if management does nto approve cannot be taken off
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Old 06.01.2021, 14:59
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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Even if management does nto approve cannot be taken off
Still, all carry over still has to be approved by our managers and I think if any carry-over days are over 5 years old then it's potentially forfeit.
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Old 06.01.2021, 15:08
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

Thanks for the correction So, is it 5 years?


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Il y a donc lieu de retenir que le droit aux vacances se prescrit par cinq ans
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  #11  
Old 06.01.2021, 15:12
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

Several friends of mine approaching retirement with substantial holiday entitlement were either paid out or stopped working the relevant number of days before retirement but were paid as normal till the retirement date.

One drawback of being paid out is that it will increase your tax bill as it will be teared as income.
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Old 06.01.2021, 15:21
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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Yes, ours carry over every year (with management approval). There is no way they are going to take peoples holidays away without riots going on.
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Even if management does nto approve cannot be taken off
I've seen people being forced to take time off, in one case, my immediate boss at the time, for two months in one go, to use up holiday and/or acquired TOIL. The employer effectively has to count any carried over holiday as a debt on their accounts, and they really don't like that.
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Old 06.01.2021, 15:30
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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I've seen people being forced to take time off, in one case, my immediate boss at the time, for two months in one go, to use up holiday and/or acquired TOIL. The employer effectively has to count any carried over holiday as a debt on their accounts, and they really don't like that.
Agree with that, company can force you to take holidays but they can never just take the days off if unused as happens in other countries.
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Old 25.01.2021, 23:03
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

Hi all,


With thanks for the responses thus far and sorry for being late.

A bit of further explanation:

The situation is unusual given the type of place I work for. When i say HR is incompetent, I am not exaggerating. But the place is extremely well connected to Genevan politics in general, but not the kind of place you would suspect.


But, in short: my contract (5 years CDD) is one page long and states the right to vacation as usual, and my HR account has confirmed the 3 months left unused. What will be odd about this place as opposed to most is that I do not have a 'manager' in a usual sense. I've worked essentially as I wish for 5 years, for reasons that are hard to explain without giving details. But this is essentially the usual arrangement. Technically, there is somebody who should be managing this kind of thing but they are in reality non-existent.

But the question, really is: my contract says 4 semaines vacances each year, and I have 12 left. There is no further specification in the contract, nor request from management etc. that I take it, and my contract is about to expire. Under Swiss law, can I simply ask for this in cash?

Apologies for being somewhat vague. The place I work at is.... unusual.

With thanks,


OP
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Old 25.01.2021, 23:35
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

Translation of relevant section from below link:

"Compensation of not-taken days of vacation:

Pursuant to Art. 329d para. 2 OR, vacation may not be paid out during the term of the employment relationship (compensation prohibition). Due to the prohibition of compensation, the not-taken vacation days must therefore in principle be taken or granted during the notice period.

Monetary compensation for not-taken vacation days may only be paid in exceptional cases if it is no longer possible to actually take the vacation days by the end of the employment relationship."

https://finanzia.ch/index.php/en-bre...ezogene-ferien
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Old 26.01.2021, 01:31
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

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Translation of relevant section from below link:

"Compensation of not-taken days of vacation:

Pursuant to Art. 329d para. 2 OR, vacation may not be paid out during the term of the employment relationship (compensation prohibition). Due to the prohibition of compensation, the not-taken vacation days must therefore in principle be taken or granted during the notice period.

Monetary compensation for not-taken vacation days may only be paid in exceptional cases if it is no longer possible to actually take the vacation days by the end of the employment relationship."

https://finanzia.ch/index.php/en-bre...ezogene-ferien
Yes.

I heard of one case whereby, once everyone realised that several weeks of vacation were still due, the employer and the employee agreed to extend the duration of the contract beyond the date originally intended when notice was given. The employer paid the usual salary for the extended time.

To illustrate:
The employee's contract was set to end on, say, 31st January.
On 20th January, they all realised that there were 6 weeks' vacation due.
The employee had alloated the last ten days to doing handovers, so couldn't suddenly take vacation right then.
They then drew up an additional contract extending the employment beyond 31st Janaury, up until 15th February. The employee worked just as planned until 31st January, and then took a month-and-a-half's vacaction, on full pay, and still insured in the ordinary ways.

That was a much easier solution, administatively, for all concerned.
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Old 26.01.2021, 21:32
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Re: Vacation Leave on a Fixed Contract

Holidays don't lapse for five years, with the countdown starting at the end of the year they were earned.

They may lapse if the employer has ordered the employee to take them, providing a reasonable window during which to take them. But this remark is just for completeness' sake as it doesn't seem to apply here.

For OP that means all unused holiday days are still valid and to be paid out, in my experience this happens together with the last monthly salary.

As an aside: accident insurance.
Employees are mandatorily insured against accidents by their employer, this insurance lasts for 31 days beyond the employment contract. Follow-on insurance is to be bought as an option that comes with the mandatory health insurance for a small fee, a phonecall should be enough.

However there's that thing called AbredeVersicherung, it's far superior to the above. The ex-employee can buy up to 6 additional months accident insurance. This optional contract must have been concluded before the 31 days mentioned above have ended, conclusion of the contract happens by paying the premium for the duration chosen (up to 6 months). The employee's HR should be able to help along, otherwise see the SUVA webpage.
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