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  #41  
Old 26.02.2021, 22:55
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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Obviously, that’s not the way. The simple truth is that outsourcing has been around for a while... and in the vast majority of projects failed miserably. Yes, new technology makes it easier but I don’t think there will a mass exodus of IT specialists any time soon. I believe that the whole “lower your rate or we move the whole project to Poland” is just a threat used to negotiate prices down.

But when it comes to what to do: there are well documented and discussed trends in automation as well as outsourcing. Look at them in regards or your specific job and learn new things that help you to future proof your work. Very hard to generalize it but in essence do most outsourcing projects fail due to communication and business know how. If you don’t “just” know IT but also understand the industry and business your employer is in... you will be much safer. If you can also talk to business users and understand them (imagine doing that in Swiss German...) will you be hard to outsource.
IT? That's a confusion. I replied to flakey's comment about outsourcing. The thread is about job market in general, not IT. If it has been hijacked by IT, I better leave.
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  #42  
Old 26.02.2021, 22:58
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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IT? That's a confusion. I replied to flakey's comment about outsourcing. The thread is about job market in general, not IT. If it has been hijacked by IT, I better leave.
Every thread gets hijacked by IT eventually...
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  #43  
Old 26.02.2021, 23:48
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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IT? That's a confusion. I replied to flakey's comment about outsourcing. The thread is about job market in general, not IT. If it has been hijacked by IT, I better leave.
Sorry, I misunderstood it then... IT is the number one supporting function that typically gets outsourced. What do you do that you are scared of getting outsourced as well...?
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  #44  
Old 27.02.2021, 15:07
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

Hello guys,

I'm Leo, a new member of the forum. I hope I will have good time here and moreover I will try not to be boring with my posts.

I have a question about the swiss job market. Besides IT sector (programmers, etc.) are the other (let's call them) 'winners of the pandemic': pharma, biotech and biomed industry? Do these tech branches hire more (or at least at the the same level as before the health crisis)?


Kind regards,

L.
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  #45  
Old 02.03.2021, 12:07
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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Hello guys,

I'm Leo, a new member of the forum. I hope I will have good time here and moreover I will try not to be boring with my posts.

I have a question about the swiss job market. Besides IT sector (programmers, etc.) are the other (let's call them) 'winners of the pandemic': pharma, biotech and biomed industry? Do these tech branches hire more (or at least at the the same level as before the health crisis)?


Kind regards,

L.

Hi Leo,

I am in FMCG and we have done very well in 2020 thanks to increased consumer demands of supermarket goods during the stay at home periods.
We have been hiring continuously throughout the year and nobody was let go or put on kurzarbeit.
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  #46  
Old 04.03.2021, 09:38
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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Perhaps for IT, even though some banks still have to hire people here because of data privacy regulations (some type of data MUST stay and be processed on CH/EU servers, so outsourcing is not an option, even if it totally makes sense). Perhaps the same thing with some other companies' strictly confidential data policies.

Plus, you will still be able to attract best talent in CH. I.e. where I currently work, we have "twin" departmants in India and China doing the same stuff as we do, which are much cheaper. Yet, the tangible results show that output/dollar is still higher in CH.

Reminded me of this:

https://youtu.be/s5f8hjzxmkA
I don't see the outsourcing going far shore more near shore. There is tremendous talent in Europe at substantially cheaper prices. And the eastern europeans (especially poland) are getting far better as well.

Don't get me wrong, there are always the unicorn jobs, but looking at the big IB's, IM/AM etc like CS/UBS and co, the reality is that there are relatively few of these jobs required to be domiciled in Switzerland, especially seeing as lots of this business has to curtail to EU regulation anyway....

Looking at a budget of 50 people in Switzerland versus elsewhere makes for extremely compelling arguments....
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  #47  
Old 04.03.2021, 09:58
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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Hello guys,

I'm Leo, a new member of the forum. I hope I will have good time here and moreover I will try not to be boring with my posts.

I have a question about the swiss job market. Besides IT sector (programmers, etc.) are the other (let's call them) 'winners of the pandemic': pharma, biotech and biomed industry? Do these tech branches hire more (or at least at the the same level as before the health crisis)?


Kind regards,

L.
No - if you've seen some of my other posts on the subject, the big pharmas are taking advantage of the fact that the pandemic has shown we can do our job from anywhere.

Roche is currently starting a new model where they are moving contracts for current "global" Switzerland based roles to cheaper locations like the UK. Novartis has already been doing this for several years. My company is only hiring in our Bangalore location unless you are a very senior executive & they are trying to attract talent for Switzerland based roles from countries where salaries are low, so they can pay them less here. It is honestly really bad at the moment.
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  #48  
Old 04.03.2021, 10:52
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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IT? That's a confusion. I replied to flakey's comment about outsourcing. The thread is about job market in general, not IT. If it has been hijacked by IT, I better leave.
Maybe “it” was meant to be. It is good to have any job nowadays. It is a good thing to have “it”
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  #49  
Old 04.03.2021, 12:18
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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No - if you've seen some of my other posts on the subject, the big pharmas are taking advantage of the fact that the pandemic has shown we can do our job from anywhere.

Roche is currently starting a new model where they are moving contracts for current "global" Switzerland based roles to cheaper locations like the UK. Novartis has already been doing this for several years. My company is only hiring in our Bangalore location unless you are a very senior executive & they are trying to attract talent for Switzerland based roles from countries where salaries are low, so they can pay them less here. It is honestly really bad at the moment.
I'm sure it's no small part of the reason I got employed here! I got a really good job here for a great company and I do not believe for a second there were no Swiss candidates qualified!
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  #50  
Old 04.03.2021, 21:15
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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Just received an invitation from a headhunter to apply for a job at one of Basel's monsters. Employers must be desperate
No amount of money is worth working for the Evil Empire.
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  #51  
Old 04.03.2021, 21:37
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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No amount of money is worth working for the Evil Empire.
Every company is an Evil Empire. Some just sell themselves cheap for the Good Liar Empires.
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Old 04.03.2021, 21:51
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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I don't see the outsourcing going far shore more near shore. There is tremendous talent in Europe at substantially cheaper prices. And the eastern europeans (especially poland) are getting far better as well.

Don't get me wrong, there are always the unicorn jobs, but looking at the big IB's, IM/AM etc like CS/UBS and co, the reality is that there are relatively few of these jobs required to be domiciled in Switzerland, especially seeing as lots of this business has to curtail to EU regulation anyway....

Looking at a budget of 50 people in Switzerland versus elsewhere makes for extremely compelling arguments....
Doom and gloom claims. Utter nonsense

Sure there will be outsourcing and delocalization but not more than before. Do you seriously think that UBS had to wait for Covid to learn about videoconference and virtual desktop??? Do you even know a thing or two about banks
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Old 04.03.2021, 23:41
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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Doom and gloom claims. Utter nonsense

Sure there will be outsourcing and delocalization but not more than before. Do you seriously think that UBS had to wait for Covid to learn about videoconference and virtual desktop??? Do you even know a thing or two about banks
No, but you are forgetting that the streamlining of the business as a whole especially outside of the pure strategic FO stuff is getting substantially faster due to automation thanks to cheap computing, regulation and harmonisation as well as divesting in certain business types.

I would hope I know something about "banks" or they're just paying me to be a pretty face .

Reality is that its hard to sustain a competitive advantage in this globalised world, and it's increasingly harder to make a case for different business streams to remain in very high cost locations............when they're not revenue influencing.
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Old 05.03.2021, 08:24
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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I'm sure it's no small part of the reason I got employed here! I got a really good job here for a great company and I do not believe for a second there were no Swiss candidates qualified!
Don’t sell yourself short mate. All the best!
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  #55  
Old 05.03.2021, 11:55
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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Don’t sell yourself short mate. All the best!
Temet Nosce

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  #56  
Old 17.05.2021, 10:10
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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Doom and gloom claims. Utter nonsense

Sure there will be outsourcing and delocalization but not more than before. Do you seriously think that UBS had to wait for Covid to learn about videoconference and virtual desktop??? Do you even know a thing or two about banks
I don't agree with this stance. Covid-19 has shown a lot more jobs can be done from home, without the need to come into the office. Companies are also learning that they can save money on office space and resources (like heating and power) [which is much needed given everyone is going to be demanding they have more space when/if they return].

I never forget going to a meeting with a company in Geneva where the office had about 12 people working within it. In a single room, with three rows of desks, so they were either back to back or directly facing each other. It wasn't an environment I would want to work within. And it certainly would not be considered covid-19 compliant today.

I think there is going to be more outsourced roles, although maybe not overseas in different time zones, the roles will remain in Europe.

Will they look look east to Poland or Romania, unsure. There isn't a lot of love for eastern Europe in Switzerland I feel and English isn't used internally in small companies [obviously] or medium ones for the most part unless their market is truly international. They will surely look to France, Germany and Italy, depending of course the canton they're based in.

All that said I think there going to need a new bread of managers to make these sort of arrangements really work.
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  #57  
Old 17.05.2021, 13:13
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Re: How is the job market doing throughout Covid?

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I don't agree with this stance. Covid-19 has shown a lot more jobs can be done from home, without the need to come into the office. Companies are also learning that they can save money on office space and resources (like heating and power) [which is much needed given everyone is going to be demanding they have more space when/if they return].

I never forget going to a meeting with a company in Geneva where the office had about 12 people working within it. In a single room, with three rows of desks, so they were either back to back or directly facing each other. It wasn't an environment I would want to work within. And it certainly would not be considered covid-19 compliant today.

I think there is going to be more outsourced roles, although maybe not overseas in different time zones, the roles will remain in Europe.

Will they look look east to Poland or Romania, unsure. There isn't a lot of love for eastern Europe in Switzerland I feel and English isn't used internally in small companies [obviously] or medium ones for the most part unless their market is truly international. They will surely look to France, Germany and Italy, depending of course the canton they're based in.

All that said I think there going to need a new bread of managers to make these sort of arrangements really work.
Companies have also been burned by outsourcing - Warsaw and Krakow are incredibly hard to hire in now, and the turnover is very high. Russia and Ukraine were popular for a long time but that obviously got complicated really quickly.

People have realised that chasing cheap labour is a never ending story and one which can be a distraction from delivery, so I think there's a limit on how much we will see.

That said, while many companies are bringing things back, many others are still looking for more outsourcing in their mix, so it's all in the detail. And having worked with offshore staff on your CV is a useful skill.
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