Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11.02.2021, 16:30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 48
Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts
lcdega has no particular reputation at present
Overtime payment - right amount

So in the last couple of years I have a accumulated around 100hrs of overtime.
My boss agreed to pay out half of the them and today I have received the sum.

I just want to double check if what I have received is right and if somebody has experience with that, because I have read different info online such as the one below and I am a bit confused:

Quote:
Overtime
Employees are entitled to 25% extra pay for overtime hours or, if workers agree, to compensatory time off. The daily limit for overtime is generally 2 hours, and the annual limit is 170 hours for workers whose regular workweek is 45 hours long and 140 hours for those whose regular workweek is 50 hours. Federal Law on Work in Industry, Trade, and Commerce of March 13, 1964, arts. 1113.
Is this extra referring to a payment "on top" of the standard salary, where each hours is compensated starting from the 25%, or does it mean that every hour should be counted as 125% of the standard rate?

In the first case, if I normally earn 50chf per hour and I got paid 25% for each overtime hour, I would earn only 12.5chf per hour.
In the second, 62.5Chf

My confusion comes from the fact that amount I have received is simply a multiplication of hours * standard hourly salary

tl;dr
Should I be pissed at my boss or thankful?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11.02.2021, 16:39
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,205
Groaned at 109 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 6,940 Times in 3,156 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

You should receive 1.25 x your normal hourly wage. Why would you work extra hours for quarter pay???
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 11.02.2021, 16:57
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 48
Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts
lcdega has no particular reputation at present
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

Ok, and the taxation is the same or does something change?
I mean, at the moment, I did the math, I have been compensated with the usual hourly rate
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11.02.2021, 17:38
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 150
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 127 Times in 70 Posts
jjake has no particular reputation at present
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

It really depends if this is true "overtime" = working more than certain number of hours in a day or "flexitime" balance. The later is quite common and is paid out at 100% rate.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank jjake for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 11.02.2021, 17:49
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 48
Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts
lcdega has no particular reputation at present
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

Quote:
View Post
It really depends if this is true "overtime" = working more than certain number of hours in a day or "flexitime" balance. The later is quite common and is paid out at 100% rate.
It's more the second case.
The point is in the last two years I have managed to take always the standard days off but never the extra time.
Because other people of my team left, leaving us with more work, I couldn't see any chance to really compensate with time off, and my boss agreed on that.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lcdega for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 11.02.2021, 18:06
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,550
Groaned at 280 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 21,884 Times in 8,864 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

Quote:
Employees are entitled to 25% extra pay
I've highlighted the important word. It's extra. You don't get paid less for overtime, you get paid more. Perhaps the rest you can take as time off in lieu. If you are on taxed at source, you may pay more tax for the month in which the overtime is paid. Otherwise, it just means you pay more tax because you earned more.

Basic principle of law. You must be paid for work done, and you must be paid at the contractual rate.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 11.02.2021, 18:19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 48
Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts
lcdega has no particular reputation at present
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

Quote:
View Post
I've highlighted the important word. It's extra. You don't get paid less for overtime, you get paid more. Perhaps the rest you can take as time off in lieu. If you are on taxed at source, you may pay more tax for the month in which the overtime is paid. Otherwise, it just means you pay more tax because you earned more.

Basic principle of law. You must be paid for work done, and you must be paid at the contractual rate.
Given the result, I will try to get the rest as time off.
Yes, I am taxed at source, so maybe something was different.
The things is that I got my monthly salary and this compensation separately.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11.02.2021, 19:15
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,778
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

Are you actually subject to the Federal Law on Work in Industry, Trade, and Commerce?
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/ho...ordnungen.html

Are you subject to a general work contract (Gesammtarbeitsvertragh)? Such a contract could overrule the default of the law.

The full Art. 13 ArG reads like this:
Quote:
Der Arbeitgeber hat den Arbeitnehmern für die Überzeitarbeit einen Lohnzuschlag von wenigstens 25 Prozent auszurichten, dem Büropersonal sowie den technischen und andern Angestellten, mit Einschluss des Verkaufspersonals in Grossbetrieben des Detailhandels, jedoch nur für Überzeitarbeit, die 60 Stunden im Kalenderjahr übersteigt

The employer shall pay employees a wage supplement of at least 25 percent for overtime work. Office workers, technicians and other employees, including sales personnel in large retail businesses, shall only be paid a wage supplement for overtime work that exceeds 60 hours in a calendar year.
One thing which has to be understood is that Überzeitarbeit is not the same as Überstunden.

Überstunden / Extra hours (*): More than what is stated in your contract.
Überzeit / Overtime : More the usual legal worktime per week which is either 45 hours or 50 hours.
A good worktime tool/software will keep track of those two pots and print it on the monthly time sheet.

Compensation for Überstunden is, if your contract does not specify something else, also 25%. Art. 321c Code of Obligations.
As you can see Überstunden and Überzeit are handled in to completely different federal acts. The former is contract law, the later worker protections and health.

Extra hours vs. Overtime. It is a matter of definition and usage which is which. Just be clear that one means above the contractual time and the other beyond the legal worktime.
https://www.ch.ch/en/overtime-and-extra-hours/
https://www.hampshire.edu/sites/defa...es%20FINAL.pdf
__________________
On Hiatus- Normal operation will resume 22.02.2022 22:02:20.22
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 11.02.2021, 19:36
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,099
Groaned at 48 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,411 Times in 1,145 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

In cases like this, it can be the most simple solution to get in touch with the HR department and ask them to go through the calculation together with you.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12.02.2021, 10:14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 48
Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts
lcdega has no particular reputation at present
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

Quote:
View Post
In cases like this, it can be the most simple solution to get in touch with the HR department and ask them to go through the calculation together with you.
Unfortunately there is no HR, we are a rathe small Büro and the boss handles everything
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12.02.2021, 10:20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 48
Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts
lcdega has no particular reputation at present
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

Quote:
View Post
Are you actually subject to the Federal Law on Work in Industry, Trade, and Commerce?
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/ho...ordnungen.html

Are you subject to a general work contract (Gesammtarbeitsvertragh)? Such a contract could overrule the default of the law.

The full Art. 13 ArG reads like this:


One thing which has to be understood is that Überzeitarbeit is not the same as Überstunden.

Überstunden / Extra hours (*): More than what is stated in your contract.
Überzeit / Overtime : More the usual legal worktime per week which is either 45 hours or 50 hours.
A good worktime tool/software will keep track of those two pots and print it on the monthly time sheet.

Compensation for Überstunden is, if your contract does not specify something else, also 25%. Art. 321c Code of Obligations.
As you can see Überstunden and Überzeit are handled in to completely different federal acts. The former is contract law, the later worker protections and health.

Extra hours vs. Overtime. It is a matter of definition and usage which is which. Just be clear that one means above the contractual time and the other beyond the legal worktime.
https://www.ch.ch/en/overtime-and-extra-hours/
https://www.hampshire.edu/sites/defa...es%20FINAL.pdf
For what I can read from the link, our office is not exempted from the list.
My contract list as such for the Überstunden

Name:  Screenshot_1.jpg
Views: 229
Size:  90.5 KB
We also have a software that tracks our time, and every month we send a report, which is then acknowledge and sent us back along with the total hour worked in the year up to that point
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12.02.2021, 11:02
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,778
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

Quote:
View Post
For what I can read from the link, our office is not exempted from the list.
My contract list as such for the Überstunden
It says that Überstunden are not paid out and must be compensated.
Based on the agreement it should be hard to accumulate Überzeit, specially with a 40 hour week.

As you get it paid out there was a side agreement which extended your usual work contract and company rules. From this point it gets tricky. First, what is what this agreement contains. And second, if you want to fight for you rights.

The agreement should have state at which rate the hours are paid out. The agreement should have been done in writing. Verbal is legal but harder to proof what was agreed. A simple e-mail is good, a paper signed by both parties is better. If nothing was stated than Art. 321c Code of obligations and an extra 25% should have been paid.

Quote:
View Post
We also have a software that tracks our time, and every month we send a report, which is then acknowledge and sent us back along with the total hour worked in the year up to that point
The statement should show
Überstunden: 100:00
Überzeit: 0:00
__________________
On Hiatus- Normal operation will resume 22.02.2022 22:02:20.22
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 12.02.2021, 11:04
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,356
Groaned at 42 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 6,459 Times in 2,966 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

From what I can see 100 hours 'plus hours' over a few years is not getting into the situation of being paid 25% extra salary per hour.


Real overtime, is work beyond the maximum 50 hours/week or whatever it is exactly, that is considered beyond reasonable for your specific contract or type of work.



For your tax-at-source the plus hours would be paid out at normal rate then taxed at normal. All your plus hours would also have the other standard insurance deductions, pension etc. I would be worried if you were given a cash lump payment without all the deductions as then the employer is avoiding paying their compulsory pension payments on those worked hours.


Hope that helps...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 12.02.2021, 11:08
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,356
Groaned at 42 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 6,459 Times in 2,966 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Overtime payment - right amount

from the German, from what I understand -



on the additional overtime/overhours agreement, it says that up to 8 hours/month is paid normal, and more than 15 hours 'plus' per month is not approved.



Unless you want to argue with your employer over individual this and that hours being paid over. I'd go with your original plan of agreeing to take 50% as paid out at the normal rate, and the other half they need to schedule as proper time off. And regardless of being under-staffed, I'd make a plan to take this in the next x months or year.



In my former job we tried to keep all staff below 50 plus hours per year. And that was a workplace requiring continuous staffing levels and a lot of flexible working. Otherwise the over-hours become a financial burden as if you resign, these must be paid out in cash.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
overtime, payment, salary




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Overtime kamiyu Employment 56 28.11.2019 08:48
PostFinance - Failed payment to US, Not being credited full amount jetset Finance/banking/taxation 28 25.05.2015 16:50
Law on overtime Ollie Employment 20 22.04.2013 19:50
Overtime Mac2012 Employment 60 08.02.2012 10:51
Where is the overtime ? simonminissale Employment 9 25.07.2011 21:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0