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  #201  
Old 20.02.2021, 10:17
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

So with a class of 30 to 40- how many staff would be present?
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  #202  
Old 20.02.2021, 10:50
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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So with a class of 30 to 40- how many staff would be present?
Presumably 1 as if 2 there would be 2 class between 15-20.
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  #203  
Old 20.02.2021, 13:03
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Surely it's the same in life, some people can't focus, have stress issues & perform badly. Surely the point of a test is to separate those who can complete the task & those who can't?
As RufusB said,I think it depends on the purpose of the test. If a test's results will determine whether you're a good fit for medicine school for instance, I don't see how on earth you can de-standardise those tests. That's just one example. Since you mentioned math - math is also a subject you can't beat around the bush. Sure, some kids need more time, different teaching methods, but in the end they all should be able to comply with the same kind of requirements.
Mind you, I've been through a communist school system and I know what standardisation in excess can do. Things are changing, sure, but not for the better as I notice. I'm subjective and brought up to think in a certain way, so take it as it is.
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  #204  
Old 20.02.2021, 13:22
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Depends very much on the test indeed. I remember the bad old days when students could get an A in a language, and absolutely unable to communicate in it. Just a series of nit picking, useless bits of grammar, which even the natives would not use, and classical literature and regurgitation.
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  #205  
Old 20.02.2021, 13:26
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Presumably 1 as if 2 there would be 2 class between 15-20.
Not necessarily.
Certainly in the Montessori schools Iíve seen there is the main class teacher plus a classroom assistant. There isnít just one person responsible for a large class full of children.
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Old 20.02.2021, 13:30
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Depends very much on the test indeed. I remember the bad old days when students could get an A in a language, and absolutely unable to communicate in it. Just a series of nit picking, useless bits of grammar, which even the natives would not use, and classical literature and regurgitation.
Yep. It's why English Lit A level is so valued in tertiary applications: it's a true "facilitating" subject in that it needs students to be able to research, think and write in the abstract, whilst also being very precise.


Aragyl - thank you for that explanation. It's probably the best I've seen! It's the ultimate in differentiation then? It must be a boon for those on the spectrum? How do SEN students access? Smaller groups or more time on skills?

Do students also take the formal exams? Can Montessori go right up to 19 or do kids need to make a (I imagine quite stressful) transition?

I system without a constant need to show/prove student progress through data and endless AFL. That's what's killing UK teachers.
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  #207  
Old 20.02.2021, 15:18
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Not necessarily.
Certainly in the Montessori schools Iíve seen there is the main class teacher plus a classroom assistant. There isnít just one person responsible for a large class full of children.
So the equivalent of a smaller class, if 2 teachers look after the group.
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  #208  
Old 20.02.2021, 16:06
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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So the equivalent of a smaller class, if 2 teachers look after the group.
In terms of adult to child ratio yes itís exactly the same, theyíre just all in the same classroom.
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  #209  
Old 20.02.2021, 16:15
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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In terms of adult to child ratio yes itís exactly the same, theyíre just all in the same classroom.
However potentially doing different things, which was certainly true at my school. Metalwork being a prime example of an A level group & an O level group being in the workshop together or even sometimes 2 O level groups split between 2 teachers doing 2 separate exams. Group A 'Metalwork', group B 'Engineering workshop theory & practice' the more difficult exam for the brighter kids.
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  #210  
Old 20.02.2021, 16:39
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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However potentially doing different things, which was certainly true at my school. Metalwork being a prime example of an A level group & an O level group being in the workshop together or even sometimes 2 O level groups split between 2 teachers doing 2 separate exams. Group A 'Metalwork', group B 'Engineering workshop theory & practice' the more difficult exam for the brighter kids.
Montessori classrooms Iíve seen have several different Ďstationsí in them so there could be several groups doing different things all at the same time.

Iíve only every been in infant or primary level classrooms though, I donít know how things are in Montessori secondary schools or if they even exist.
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  #211  
Old 20.02.2021, 18:10
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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So the equivalent of a smaller class, if 2 teachers look after the group.
Not necessarily, would depend on level of involvement of the classroom assistant. Same as in UK. Higher Level Teaching Assistants can - and often do - team teach with the class teacher or take a group. "Normal " TAs, of which there are varying levels, are not able /allowed to. There are never ever enough HLTAs because they are relatively expensive (slightly more than an NQT ) to hire.

But we won't know for sure until a Montessori expert tells us!
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  #212  
Old 20.02.2021, 18:15
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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However potentially doing different things, which was certainly true at my school. Metalwork being a prime example of an A level group & an O level group being in the workshop together or even sometimes 2 O level groups split between 2 teachers doing 2 separate exams. Group A 'Metalwork', group B 'Engineering workshop theory & practice' the more difficult exam for the brighter kids.
Not exactly the same, particularly as, I imagine, a private school tech department has even smaller classes.
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Old 20.02.2021, 18:29
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Not exactly the same, particularly as, I imagine, a private school tech department has even smaller classes.
It was probably my biggest group so probably 2 x 16, although by the second year there would possibly be 8 different projects going on in the 2 groups, with the teachers available as needed & would walk round giving advise. Once we were designing our own projects we were pretty much left to get on with it.

For our O level exam we had to build a rig to bend metal, from a design in 2 hours. I finished with time to spare so tested the rig..... Unfortunately it had not been built & tested by the Oxford Examination board! It was severely under designed, it completely buckled rather than bending the specced metal rods.
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  #214  
Old 20.02.2021, 19:22
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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So with a class of 30 to 40- how many staff would be present?
Usually a trained teacher with an assistant, if it's just one room and monolingual.
In a bilingual Montessori school you either have two trained teachers or a trained teacher with an assistant, one native speaker for each language.
When it's two trained teachers, the main part of the team-teaching is ensuring that you cross over, so that the children receive the appropriate nomenclature in both languages.

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Araqyl - thank you for that explanation. It's probably the best I've seen! It's the ultimate in differentiation then? It must be a boon for those on the spectrum? How do SEN students access? Smaller groups or more time on skills?

Do students also take the formal exams? Can Montessori go right up to 19 or do kids need to make a (I imagine quite stressful) transition?

I system without a constant need to show/prove student progress through data and endless AFL. That's what's killing UK teachers.
Maria Montessori herself recommended that each class have only 10% of students with special needs, otherwise it doesn't function smoothly and requires more adult intervention. Those students do have the flexibility they need for their learning - for example, there was one family in a school in which I taught in Australia who had a daughter with Downs Syndrome. Australia had compulsory schooling until age 16 at the point so, rather than having three years in each class, she had four years in each class and didn't have to enter the public school system with tests and so on.

There are Montessori high schools, several on each inhabited continent, but they are not common.
The Montessori concept is that, for the first three years of high school, the children should live and work on a farm - making their lessons far more practical (eg, want to fence off a new area for goats you intend to buy? Calculate the area you will need, measure it out, and then calculate how much fencing you will need to enclose it - and how much feed will these goats need, and where will you store that?). They also have lessons in "regular" academic subjects, including music and art, but they also have jobs to maintain their community environment - feeding/caring for the animals, preparing meals for the community, cleaning the common areas, and so on. There's also a component of running some sort of business - sometimes they run a bed-and-breakfast for visiting parents (or other guests), or they sell some of their harvest at farmers' markets.
When it's not possible to have a farm, there are alternatives (not all of them are boarding schools), but they should each contain practical, physical activities and some sort of business - one school I know of had a plant nursery, propagating and selling plants, for example.

The last three years of high school are more academic, focusing on preparation for university (for those who want it) or a job.

As for formal examinations, in Switzerland the children are free to take the Gymi test (if the canton has one!) along with all of the other kids at the end of 6th Grade. As part of our programme we teach the children how to take tests - since they will encounter tests as part of their future school career (well, most will - we also have some which go into Steiner schools, or other systems without exams). The tests themselves aren't relevant to their "progress" in our school, but some want to take the Gymi test so we also offer exam simulations and specific teaching and feedback on the topics which will be covered in that test. For those outside Zurich, the Gymi test in Zurich covers topics which are beyond the scope of the normal 6th Grade curriculum ...

We've drifted a little off-topic, but I have the time at the moment - in the first week of holidays I don't have to worry so much about prep for the next term, yet.
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Old 21.02.2021, 01:38
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Maria Montessori herself recommended that each class have only 10% of students with special needs, otherwise it doesn't function smoothly and requires more adult intervention. Those students do have the flexibility they need for their learning - for example, there was one family in a school in which I taught in Australia who had a daughter with Downs Syndrome. Australia had compulsory schooling until age 16 at the point so, rather than having three years in each class, she had four years in each class and didn't have to enter the public school system with tests and so on.

There are Montessori high schools, several on each inhabited continent, but they are not common.
The Montessori concept is that, for the first three years of high school, the children should live and work on a farm - making their lessons far more practical (eg, want to fence off a new area for goats you intend to buy? Calculate the area you will need, measure it out, and then calculate how much fencing you will need to enclose it - and how much feed will these goats need, and where will you store that?). They also have lessons in "regular" academic subjects, including music and art, but they also have jobs to maintain their community environment - feeding/caring for the animals, preparing meals for the community, cleaning the common areas, and so on. There's also a component of running some sort of business - sometimes they run a bed-and-breakfast for visiting parents (or other guests), or they sell some of their harvest at farmers' markets.
When it's not possible to have a farm, there are alternatives (not all of them are boarding schools), but they should each contain practical, physical activities and some sort of business - one school I know of had a plant nursery, propagating and selling plants, for example.

The last three years of high school are more academic, focusing on preparation for university (for those who want it) or a job.

As for formal examinations, in Switzerland the children are free to take the Gymi test (if the canton has one!) along with all of the other kids at the end of 6th Grade. As part of our programme we teach the children how to take tests - since they will encounter tests as part of their future school career (well, most will - we also have some which go into Steiner schools, or other systems without exams). The tests themselves aren't relevant to their "progress" in our school, but some want to take the Gymi test so we also offer exam simulations and specific teaching and feedback on the topics which will be covered in that test. For those outside Zurich, the Gymi test in Zurich covers topics which are beyond the scope of the normal 6th Grade curriculum ...

We've drifted a little off-topic, but I have the time at the moment - in the first week of holidays I don't have to worry so much about prep for the next term, yet.

Thank you for taking the time aragyl. That is really interesting. My eldest would likely benefit from such a system but we are too far into the "standard" way now.

Only 10% SEN? Across the whole SEN gamut? Including high functioning? Oh if only. I've had exam classes of 100% SEN and barely any support. I'm betting the average state secondary class is 20 - 45% SEN.

Maria Montessori had it right I think.

Hope you are having a good break. Back to Teams et al for me on Monday. In grateful I'm part time at the mo.
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  #216  
Old 24.02.2021, 06:58
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Thank you for taking the time aragyl. That is really interesting. My eldest would likely benefit from such a system but we are too far into the "standard" way now.

Only 10% SEN? Across the whole SEN gamut? Including high functioning? Oh if only. I've had exam classes of 100% SEN and barely any support. I'm betting the average state secondary class is 20 - 45% SEN.

Maria Montessori had it right I think.

Hope you are having a good break. Back to Teams et al for me on Monday. In grateful I'm part time at the mo.
Many children are able to enter "late" and still work well in Montessori classrooms, so it might not be too late for your eldest. If there's a Montessori school near you, they could always have a few trial days, possibly even a trial week, to see how things go.

Yeah, the 10% is an "ideal world" number ... in reality it's more ... always ... :/

Break's going pretty well, just had a few days in the mountains with my wife & sons. My daughter's B Sci is already running for the second semester (100% online) so she wasn't able to come with us ... :/
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