Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 14.02.2021, 19:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,821
Groaned at 242 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 2,052 Times in 1,007 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Yes, but the rôle of the Form Tutor here and in the UK is very different, they don't teach the group.

Are you talking about primary or secondary here BM? I have never heard of secondary teachers replacing others, especially not in their subject area, and/or Heads of Departments preparing lessons for them.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 14.02.2021, 19:08
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,446
Groaned at 430 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 21,010 Times in 11,080 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post

UK teachers (full time, state) are contracted for 195 days a year, 1265 hours of directed time (including teaching time, meetings, break/beforeschool/after school duty, parent's eves etc) but excluding any necessary planning or marking time needed to do the job.

This.
Wow, that is part time 6.48 hours a day for 39 weeks. Most people do 1265 hours in 31 weeks.

Thanks for explaining.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 14.02.2021, 19:18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: In your head
Posts: 331
Groaned at 43 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 1,057 Times in 378 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
Wow, that is part time 6.48 hours a day for 39 weeks. Most people do 1265 hours in 31 weeks.

Thanks for explaining.
Key words: directed time, whatever other time is necessary to plan and mark.

So that's 6.4 hrs per day (yes I can do the maths too) before any lessons are planned, resources made or marking done. Let alone reports written, data crunched. A set of GCSE english essays will take c 8 hours to mark with effective feedback. A set of books c 2-3 hours per class. Some subjects are very marking heavy - no concessions made.

7.30 am - 5.30 pm days, 10 mins for lunch, are very common.

As soon as teachers get to a certain rung, pay-wise (a hike of a princely 500 quid p.a.) then there are no limits on directed time hours. You are, to be blunt, at the beck and call of the HT, both terms time and holidays, with the exception of 28ish days.

Again. Your point?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank RufusB for this useful post:
  #84  
Old 14.02.2021, 19:21
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,446
Groaned at 430 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 21,010 Times in 11,080 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
Key words: directed time, whatever other time is necessary to plan and mark.

So that's 6.4 hrs per day (yes I can do the maths too) before any lessons are planned, resources made or marking done. Let alone reports written, data crunched. A set of GCSE english essays will take c 8 hours to mark with effective feedback. A set of books c 2-3 hours per class. Some subjects are very marking heavy - no concessions made.

7.30 am - 5.30 pm days, 10 mins for lunch, are very common.

As soon as teachers get to a certain rung, pay-wise (a hike of a princely 500 quid p.a.) then there are no limits on directed time hours. You are, to be blunt, at the beck and call of the HT, both terms time and holidays, with the exception of 28ish days.

Again. Your point?
I never had a job in the UK or Switzerland that had 28 days holiday.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 14.02.2021, 19:25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: In your head
Posts: 331
Groaned at 43 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 1,057 Times in 378 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
I never had a job in the UK or Switzerland that had 28 days holiday.
Well, I guess that's the choice you made.

Though that is the statutory legal minimum in the UK. If you weren't getting the legal minimum then I guess you should have been better informed.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank RufusB for this useful post:
  #86  
Old 14.02.2021, 19:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,821
Groaned at 242 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 2,052 Times in 1,007 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Bet he has never worked with groups of 32+ teenagers either- for sure. Another massive difference between CH and UK !
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #87  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:11
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,446
Groaned at 430 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 21,010 Times in 11,080 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
Well, I guess that's the choice you made.

Though that is the statutory legal minimum in the UK. If you weren't getting the legal minimum then I guess you should have been better informed.
Not worked in the UK for over 25 years, long before such statutory requirements & max working hour. Hopefully this will end due to BREXIT.

Switzerland is 20 days IIRC. TV & Film is excluded from the 65 hour a week with working on Sundays completely standard.
Normal film business day is 10 before overtime. 12 hours for feature films with a 6 day week as standard. 12 hours is scheduled shooting & does not cover data back up or preparation for the next day. 15/16 hour days was normal.
Music videos probably a 20 hour day expected, my longest music video shoot in Geneva was 28 hours 8am till 12 noon the following day, obviously collecting / returning equipment was 'included' in the definition of a day so 32 hours in total.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:20
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 12,706
Groaned at 205 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,774 Times in 8,556 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but the rôle of the Form Tutor here and in the UK is very different, they don't teach the group.

Are you talking about primary or secondary here BM? I have never heard of secondary teachers replacing others, especially not in their subject area, and/or Heads of Departments preparing lessons for them.
As I stated it was secondary.

It was pretty much exactly the same here as it was in the UK when I was at school. How can you have a class without a form tutor?

When my son was in secondary here every teacher who was absent was replaced by another teacher. How the lesson was organised depended on why the teacher was absent, how much notice they had, what teacher replaced them etc.
Just like in the UK.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 14.02.2021 at 21:24.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #89  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:30
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,829
Groaned at 361 Times in 248 Posts
Thanked 19,354 Times in 10,104 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

What's a form tutor...Maître de classe? Homeroom teacher?
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:32
araqyl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zurich, West-side
Posts: 2,036
Groaned at 7 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 1,170 Times in 629 Posts
araqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
As I stated it was secondary.

It was pretty much exactly the same here as it was in the UK when I was at school. How can you have a class without a form tutor?

Every teacher who was absent was replaced by another teacher. How the lesson was organised depended on why the teacher was absent, how much notice they had, what teacher replaced them etc.
When I first started out teaching (in Australia) I didn't have a permanent position, so was on the casual list for a number of schools close to where I lived. Sometimes I'd be called a massive half-hour before I was supposed to be in the classroom teaching, so I had a "standard kit":

- guitar, along with a repertoire of simple & well-known age-appropriate songs;
- story / essay ideas, arranged according to English ability;
- a set of good books to read to the class, with comprehension questions and "extension" creative writing ideas; &
- four or five geography & history quizzes, also sorted according to what should have been covered in various grades in each term of the year

Usually that got me through a day, in case the class teacher had not prepared something.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank araqyl for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:35
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,829
Groaned at 361 Times in 248 Posts
Thanked 19,354 Times in 10,104 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
When I first started out teaching (in Australia) I didn't have a permanent position, so was on the casual list for a number of schools close to where I lived. Sometimes I'd be called a massive half-hour before I was supposed to be in the classroom teaching, so I had a "standard kit":

- guitar, along with a repertoire of simple & well-known age-appropriate songs;
- story / essay ideas, arranged according to English ability;
- a set of good books to read to the class, with comprehension questions and "extension" creative writing ideas; &
- four or five geography & history quizzes, also sorted according to what should have been covered in various grades in each term of the year

Usually that got me through a day, in case the class teacher had not prepared something.
What, no a set of stuffed animals, lollipops, bandaids, tiger balm? Sunsreen! Ukulele! A mini watercolor kit and a bit of playdough, glitter glue?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #92  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:41
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,821
Groaned at 242 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 2,052 Times in 1,007 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
What's a form tutor...Maître de classe? Homeroom teacher?

Maître de classe, but it is a totally different rôle in CH to UK.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,821
Groaned at 242 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 2,052 Times in 1,007 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
As I stated it was secondary.

It was pretty much exactly the same here as it was in the UK when I was at school. How can you have a class without a form tutor?

Every teacher who was absent was replaced by another teacher. How the lesson was organised depended on why the teacher was absent, how much notice they had, what teacher replaced them etc.
Yes, in the UK- not the same in CH, at all. The Form Tutor in the UK has a much much wider and more important rôle in the UK, including some teaching as for PSE (or whatever it is called as it changes all the time), career advice, personal/counselling advice, helping with communication with other members of staff, and so much more.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:46
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 12,706
Groaned at 205 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,774 Times in 8,556 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, in the UK- not the same in CH, at all.
It was exactly the same to me.
How do you think it’s different in the UK?
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,821
Groaned at 242 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 2,052 Times in 1,007 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

The rôle of the form Tutor in the UK is totally different to the Maître de classe in Switzerland. And secondary teachers in Switzerland are not contracted to stay in school to supervise lunch-times, or remain on site for the whole school day, even when not timetabled to teach, and do not routinely expected to cover to absent for teachers as a norm.

And don't normally teach classes of 30+ either.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 14.02.2021, 20:59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: In your head
Posts: 331
Groaned at 43 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 1,057 Times in 378 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
Not worked in the UK for over 25 years, long before such statutory requirements & max working hour. Hopefully this will end due to BREXIT.

Switzerland is 20 days IIRC. TV & Film is excluded from the 65 hour a week with working on Sundays completely standard.
Choices. They were yours. Lots of jobs have 15/16 hour days and weekend working. In my logistics days that was common.

Hmm. My OH got more than 20 days in CH and he was classed as a local hire.

Why are you keen for working conditions to get worse in the UK? You don't have any skin in the game so I can only assume it's some general bitterness. Bizarre.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 14.02.2021, 21:09
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 12,706
Groaned at 205 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,774 Times in 8,556 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
The rôle of the form Tutor in the UK is totally different to the Maître de classe in Switzerland. And secondary teachers in Switzerland are not contracted to stay in school to supervise lunch-times, or remain on site for the whole school day, even when not timetabled to teach, and do not routinely expected to cover to absent for teachers as a norm.

And don't normally teach classes of 30+ either.
You keep saying that it’s totally different but you haven’t explained how it is different.
Would you mind telling me exactly what the difference is please?

The secondary teachers here were definitely expected to cover for absent teachers maybe it’s different in your school district?
Not lunchtimes but definitely lessons.

I’m not even sure why we’re discussing the UK as that wasn’t what the OP asked.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #98  
Old 14.02.2021, 21:25
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,446
Groaned at 430 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 21,010 Times in 11,080 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
Why are you keen for working conditions to get worse in the UK? You don't have any skin in the game so I can only assume it's some general bitterness. Bizarre.
Getting more than 20 days is possible as is pension on entire salary, neither are legal requirements in CH.

The future is about being competitive with the rest of the world, most lower paid jobs will be done with AI, McDonald's hires way less people since min wage went up, thats progress nothing to be bitter about, being a cashier at McDonald's was a shitty job. Amazon has stores without a check out....... the future will be different to the past, get used to it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #99  
Old 14.02.2021, 21:29
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,829
Groaned at 361 Times in 248 Posts
Thanked 19,354 Times in 10,104 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

https://www.geneva.edu/blog/career/w...-never-go-away

Me and my glitter glue are safe.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 14.02.2021, 21:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Steinach SG
Posts: 8,561
Groaned at 417 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 11,200 Times in 5,882 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Quote:
View Post
Because a good teacher adapts their material to the needs of their class. I am glad we have some freedom in what Materials we use. Not every material suits every teacher. Some freedom makes the job interesting

As for hours, a full time teacher has the same full time hours as in any other job. They are just unevenly distributed. During school holidays we can compensate for the overtime during term time.
Quote:
View Post
Because standardised materials don't work - they need to be adapted to the students in front of you. Differentiation is key. Plus each eacher has their own style. Teaching from somone else's lesson plan can be like cooking in someone else's kitchen.
The world isn't black or white, it's almost always grey. A template doesn't preclude adaptation, but it provides a solid base the teacher knows is accurate and up-to-date.

A template might even be easier because the starting point is the same every year, whereas personal material would need to be versioned (you need a neutral version to start off from to reset adaptations you made to meet the needs of the previous class). Plus stuff gets outdated so it needs to be updated at least annually, this kind of error is basically excluded with a centralised actor who doesn't overlook this detail or that. And the few errors that do get distributed are virtually guaranteed to be detected and corrected immediately. None of that is the case with personal material, you'll keep outdated info until you learn of the change.
Quote:
View Post
We have an acquaintance here who went to teach in a secondary school after 10 years of working in IT. He's never been happier. He has a bunch of kids himself...
Sure. The first programming course I took, fully paid and 9 months long, I had three ex-teachers as classmates. One went back to teaching before its end, two stayed and were quite good.

But that's just anecdotal evidence, it means nothing in the broader context because every generalisation has counterexamples among the group it applies to. Engineers chose that direction because they're more interested in dealing with things (or abstraction), teachers prefer to deal with kids/people (provided people are allowed to chose and aren't compelled to take some choice by external factors). If that weren't the case they'd chose differently in the first place.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Laws on school head / teachers manhandling kids Gaelic Mama Education 27 05.02.2019 16:23
Naked kids at the park, brought by the teachers! Singorchid Complaints corner 215 29.06.2011 01:01
Kids summer clothes for winter vacations at the beach for sale casiopea Commercial 0 27.10.2010 10:57
Professors or professional librarians? I need your help! AngelB Daily life 3 20.07.2010 15:32
Any teachers with Muslim kids out there? Txell Swiss politics/news 5 14.05.2010 18:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0