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Old 16.02.2021, 12:27
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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That would be because of the people who 'end up' teaching as a profession.
I love where I ended up. Of course that all the scientists and doctors in the family might agree with you.

Buuuut. Who has the most fun job?

Pssst.

I got some extra glitter. Axa? Trust me.. Even a bit bigger kids need to have knowledge delivered not in the way you think is the most efficient, but in the way it will work out for them. Individually. And it changes, based on their priorities and the quality of their attention. Nothing to do with prestige of a teacher's job nor school funding. Of course I am using glitter as a symbol of that "learning magic". Non-teachers think that everyone learns like them, people are just waiting to get access to the right data and when you get it...Heureka! Mais non. And everyone now has access to "the right data" in their pocket. Only some can do excellently with their own inner learning engine and intrinsic motivation. I think FMF did on his own account, maybe, I did as well which made me want to teach and better than I got taught at some point in my life. Kids are great, on top. They seem to have a ton figured out well, without needing us.
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  #122  
Old 16.02.2021, 12:55
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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That would be because of the people who 'end up' teaching as a profession.
Oh dear, what did your teacher do to you?
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  #123  
Old 16.02.2021, 14:04
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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It is easier to blame externally than to look inwardly, I suppose.
Hehe...of course. I guess that's as old as humankind...
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  #124  
Old 16.02.2021, 16:26
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Great place for data, love it!
That's the sad thing about these discussions: People (exceptions apply) pretend to be an expert based on anecdotal data only. Hardly anybody appears to be interested in the data available, fuzzy and flawed as they probably are because most rely on polls and thus self-declaration.

Especially teachers seem to use their very personal, and therfore inherently flawed and limited experience to claim superiority over others whenever they disagree or demonstrate interest in other people's point of view, ignorant in their limitedness but feeling all the more important.
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  #125  
Old 16.02.2021, 16:39
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Especially teachers seem to use their very personal, and therfore inherently flawed and limited experience to claim superiority over others whenever they disagree or demonstrate interest in other people's point of view.
This is pretty much what everyone on any fora does: though I suspect when you say "superiority " others may say "standing up for oneself." IMO. Obvs.

It's strange how only teachers are singled out for having "limited" experience. They do tend to be bolshy outspoken polymaths, admittedly, deeply averse to bullying behaviour. Safeguarding, you see. It's ingrained.
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  #126  
Old 16.02.2021, 16:48
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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This is pretty much what everyone on any fora does: though I suspect when you say "superiority " others may say "standing up for oneself." IMO. Obvs.
Look up the difference between voicing an opinion vs claiming to be an expert and trying to shout others down. And no, it's not, but thanks for immediately confirming the post you quoted from.
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  #127  
Old 16.02.2021, 17:06
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Look up the difference between voicing an opinion vs claiming to be an expert and trying to shout others down. And no, it's not, but thanks for immediately confirming the post you quoted from.
When have I claimed this? I do, however, understand the teaching profession rather well.

No it's not what? Confirming what? You say the strangest things. I'm not the one shouting those they disagree with down and insulting EF members directly.
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  #128  
Old 16.02.2021, 18:21
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Those who 'end up' teaching are usually the best- as they have had life experience, had other jobs- and CHOSE to teach because they found they really enjoyed it and wanted to 'make a difference'.

Most of my friends went into teaching straight from school- not always a great success. But of course, as said above, totally different experience in CH or UK.

When it comes to being 'experts' at anything- I would say that those who have decades of experience in the subject, including in many different schools, and systems- are probably more 'expert' than those who have not.
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  #129  
Old 16.02.2021, 18:42
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Most of my friends went into teaching straight from school- not always a great success. But of course, as said above, totally different experience in CH or UK.

When it comes to being 'experts' at anything- I would say that those who have decades of experience in the subject, including in many different schools, and systems- are probably more 'expert' than those who have not.
Anecdotal evidence: as far as I noticed unfortunately? those who went into teaching right after graduation didn't last more than 5-10 years on the job. I have a friend who studied to become a primary school teacher, went into teaching and continued her studies for a second degree in parallel but after getting her master's she just gave up teaching for reasons that seemed pertinent to me.... Funnily enough, she emigrated with her partner and is teaching again but in a different country.
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  #130  
Old 16.02.2021, 18:44
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Those who 'end up' teaching are usually the best- as they have had life experience, had other jobs- and CHOSE to teach because they found they really enjoyed it and wanted to 'make a difference'.

Most of my friends went into teaching straight from school- not always a great success. But of course, as said above, totally different experience in CH or UK.

When it comes to being 'experts' at anything- I would say that those who have decades of experience in the subject, including in many different schools, and systems- are probably more 'expert' than those who have not.
Plenty of the ones who 'ended up' teaching did after failing in their previous career, so their life experiences of the real world may be far from ideal. They accepted a lower salary for an easier life.

As far as experts go, those who had interest to learn more did become experts. The ones who just regurgitated the same lesson for 35 years were still just 'entry level' The worst generally had military titles such as Colonel, Captain, Group Captain, Commander or Dr. rather than plain Mr / Mrs / Ms.
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  #131  
Old 16.02.2021, 19:37
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

As you say, anecdotal. Most of those I did the Bac/Matu with went into Primary school teaching- in those days, you just had to do Ecole Normale for 1 year only to do so. All of them stayed in teaching, bar one who became a Librarian.

Personally, there was no way I was to become a teacher! I started teaching to raise money for charity, when my kids were young. Really enjoyed it and decided to qualify. Secondary though, and later mostly 6th Form (16-18) - could have never been a primary school teacher. Was 32 when I qualified and started career.
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  #132  
Old 16.02.2021, 19:59
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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.. Colonel, Captain, Group Captain, Commander..
Oooohhh..!
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  #133  
Old 16.02.2021, 20:04
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Plenty of the ones who 'ended up' teaching did after failing in their previous career, so their life experiences of the real world may be far from ideal. They accepted a lower salary for an easier life.

As far as experts go, those who had interest to learn more did become experts. The ones who just regurgitated the same lesson for 35 years were still just 'entry level' The worst generally had military titles such as Colonel, Captain, Group Captain, Commander or Dr. rather than plain Mr / Mrs / Ms.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? You must be bored as hell to be making so much BS in a single thread.

I worked as a manager in banking prior to becoming an economics teacher. Nothing but passion, I earn less but I love doing something meaningful. There's nothing like getting an email from a student or a former student thanking you. And, by the way, I work fewer hours during the week than before, but I never worked so much during my holidays. Generally, when I left the office my work stopped, nowadays it never does. There is so much more pressure in teaching, for one thing I have deadlines that I can't possibly miss, for every day I have lessons to prepare, so the day before I have to have them ready, and this is repeated every single day. In other professions like the one I was before in, there is a lot of pressure too, but there aren't 4 daily unavoidable deadlines. Also, I work with teenagers, and I need to make sure that they get good grades. If they don't, even if it's their fault, the blame is on me. When I worked with adults I could simply fire an incompetent person. These are some of the few reasons why this job is really hard, but tell me more about your biases.
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  #134  
Old 16.02.2021, 20:16
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Do you have any idea what you are talking about? You must be bored as hell to be making so much BS in a single thread.

I worked as a manager in banking prior to becoming an economics teacher. Nothing but passion, I earn less but I love doing something meaningful. There's nothing like getting an email from a student or a former student thanking you. And, by the way, I work fewer hours during the week than before, but I never worked so much during my holidays. Generally, when I left the office my work stopped, nowadays it never does. There is so much more pressure in teaching, for one thing I have deadlines that I can't possibly miss, for every day I have lessons to prepare, so the day before I have to have them ready, and this is repeated every single day. In other professions like the one I was before in, there is a lot of pressure too, but there aren't 4 daily unavoidable deadlines. Also, I work with teenagers, and I need to make sure that they get good grades. If they don't, even if it's their fault, the blame is on me. When I worked with adults I could simply fire an incompetent person. These are some of the few reasons why this job is really hard, but tell me more about your biases.
I remember going on a skiing holiday with a banker, he spent 4 days of the week on the phone due to market volatility, he was not on holiday just not in the office. His 5 year old son had no idea where his father lived as he rarely saw him, he left for work before the children were up & returned when they were in bed, often working at the weekend. He had been a Don at Cambridge so taught first then got a real job so the reverse of your experience.
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Oooohhh..!
Basically people who wanted you to know they were once very important
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  #135  
Old 16.02.2021, 21:06
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

It is clear that some people who are badly damaged by the 'education' they received, can remain so and very bitter to the end of their lives. Very sad indeed.
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Old 16.02.2021, 21:19
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Do you have any idea what you are talking about? You must be bored as hell to be making so much BS in a single thread.

I worked as a manager in banking prior to becoming an economics teacher. Nothing but passion, I earn less but I love doing something meaningful. There's nothing like getting an email from a student or a former student thanking you. And, by the way, I work fewer hours during the week than before, but I never worked so much during my holidays. Generally, when I left the office my work stopped, nowadays it never does. There is so much more pressure in teaching, for one thing I have deadlines that I can't possibly miss, for every day I have lessons to prepare, so the day before I have to have them ready, and this is repeated every single day. In other professions like the one I was before in, there is a lot of pressure too, but there aren't 4 daily unavoidable deadlines. Also, I work with teenagers, and I need to make sure that they get good grades. If they don't, even if it's their fault, the blame is on me. When I worked with adults I could simply fire an incompetent person. These are some of the few reasons why this job is really hard, but tell me more about your biases.
I was taught economics by someone with this kinda background (I think he was a commercial lawyer rather than a banker) - the single best teacher I ever had. Absolutely insipring.
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  #137  
Old 16.02.2021, 21:25
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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I remember going on a skiing holiday with a banker, he spent 4 days of the week on the phone due to market volatility, he was not on holiday just not in the office. His 5 year old son had no idea where his father lived as he rarely saw him, he left for work before the children were up & returned when they were in bed, often working at the weekend. He had been a Don at Cambridge so taught first then got a real job so the reverse of your experience.

Basically people who wanted you to know they were once very important
That happens everywhere..Except here, it is less formal, more based on skills and competences than some prestige or "once fame".
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  #138  
Old 16.02.2021, 21:58
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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When have I claimed this? I do, however, understand the teaching profession rather well.
If you did, it would show in your posts. Claiming to have a gazillion years of experience is in itself worthless, it only is worth something if it shows in your posts, in their quality, usefulness, and general worth. But if those do show, then the experience doesn't need to be mentioned because it's manifest already.

The bottom line is, trying to trump the other based on some arbitrary metric is an argumentum ad verecundiam in an attempt to establish authority without proof. Those arguments serve to shout the other down, usually due to lack of actual expertise.

Still, and just out of curiosity, how many years of experience do you have in workflow analysis and design? That's what my posts are about at their core.
And while I'm at it, how many years have you tought at Swiss public schools?
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Old 16.02.2021, 23:08
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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If you did, it would show in your posts. Claiming to have a gazillion years of experience is in itself worthless, it only is worth something if it shows in your posts, in their quality, usefulness, and general worth. But if those do show, then the experience doesn't need to be mentioned because it's manifest already.

The bottom line is, trying to trump the other based on some arbitrary metric is an argumentum ad verecundiam in an attempt to establish authority without proof. Those arguments serve to shout the other down, usually due to lack of actual expertise.

Still, and just out of curiosity, how many years of experience do you have in workflow analysis and design? That's what my posts are about at their core.
And while I'm at it, how many years have you tought at Swiss public schools?
What an odd post. Workflow analysis and design is just fancy talk for efficient lesson planning and preparation.

With the advent of digitalisation in schools, materials need to be redesigned and methods reconsidered. Currently, textbooks are seen as archaic relics of the past as we embark on pdfs that now can be used as worksheets while embracing collaboration (student sharing) programs that allow groups to work together digitally. Games, assessments, online testing and project papers are all now created and designed to meet the needs of digital education. Computers need to be fully-powered and maintained in order to increase efficiency in learning. Redesigning curriculums and relentless digital schooling has become a constant stress in teachers' lives. And, in all of this upheaval, teachers are highly aware that students still require school books to increase their productivity in learning and understanding, given that staring into an emotionless screen only covers one part of the methodology process of learning.

So, yeah, teachers need those vacations to stop their heads from spinning.
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Old 16.02.2021, 23:10
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Mind you, I spent a lot of my holidays taking kids on YHA trips, work experience for our 6th Formers, and many ski trips- yes during holidays and by bus to keep cost to minimum, and include as many as possible- especially those who would never have the chance otherwise.
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