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  #141  
Old 17.02.2021, 00:33
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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What an odd post. Workflow analysis and design is just fancy talk for efficient lesson planning and preparation.

With the advent of digitalisation in schools, materials need to be redesigned and methods reconsidered. Currently, textbooks are seen as archaic relics of the past as we embark on pdfs that now can be used as worksheets while embracing collaboration (student sharing) programs that allow groups to work together digitally. Games, assessments, online testing and project papers are all now created and designed to meet the needs of digital education. Computers need to be fully-powered and maintained in order to increase efficiency in learning. Redesigning curriculums and relentless digital schooling has become a constant stress in teachers' lives. And, in all of this upheaval, teachers are highly aware that students still require school books to increase their productivity in learning and understanding, given that staring into an emotionless screen only covers one part of the methodology process of learning.

So, yeah, teachers need those vacations to stop their heads from spinning.
Workflow design isn't fancy speak, you seem to fail to see that the technique is applied basically everywhere at the workplace.

That said, what you describe is roughly what I'm aiming at. It's quite a positive surprise to hear that after the many dismissive replies.

How are the docs' (PDFs') contents defined, is it a matter of teacher selection by point and click? And does that define the test material as well, maybe with the default questions replaceable by others? I'm thinking of something like "cover topic xyz next week defines the docs' default content as well as the default test questions".

Do teachers still do the marking, or is that centralised?
Centralisation would remove teacher bias in test marks and grant the application of uniform marking standards for the entire region. And teachers wouldn't be bothered any longer by dissatisfied parents as that could be handled by the marking center's specialists as well.
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  #142  
Old 17.02.2021, 08:06
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

Hmm....everyone still on that?
I really hope the pandemic will be soon over and everyone could go out more, it seems we're stuck on EF debating over and over again, the same things with the same people whose opinions re. education or whatever other topic we already know..

Btw, has anyone else noticed this is the first post OP has ever made here and never came back?
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  #143  
Old 17.02.2021, 08:14
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Mind you, I spent a lot of my holidays taking kids on YHA trips, work experience for our 6th Formers, and many ski trips- yes during holidays and by bus to keep cost to minimum, and include as many as possible- especially those who would never have the chance otherwise.
A free ski trip from the UK, quite attractive to many.
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  #144  
Old 17.02.2021, 08:22
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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A free ski trip from the UK, quite attractive to many.
Trips, visits to museums, theatre etc are also part of the education process.And it's one thing to have kids of certain ages all in the same room - manageable, and a different thing to have them in a very different environment where many of them usually start being..."hyper" and you have to make sure they all come back in one piece. I've been to these kind of trips myself from the accompanying parent position and trust me no-one relaxes. I'm not saying it is not nice, but it's also work.
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  #145  
Old 17.02.2021, 08:34
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Trips, visits to museums, theatre etc are also part of the education process.And it's one thing to have kids of certain ages all in the same room - manageable, and a different thing to have them in a very different environment where many of them usually start being..."hyper" and you have to make sure they all come back in one piece. I've been to these kind of trips myself from the accompanying parent position and trust me no-one relaxes. I'm not saying it is not nice, but it's also work.
You can be fairly certain that they won't all 'always' return from a ski holiday in 1 piece. With H&S gone mad I am amazed it's even possible.
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  #146  
Old 17.02.2021, 09:19
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Do teachers still do the marking, or is that centralised?
Centralisation would remove teacher bias in test marks and grant the application of uniform marking standards for the entire region. And teachers wouldn't be bothered any longer by dissatisfied parents as that could be handled by the marking center's specialists as well.
Online tests can be given with today's technology but they still have to be monitored due to the temptation of cheating from your mobile, books, notes, etc. This means that tests cannot be administered outside of the school.

Online testing that exclusively involves multiple choice or true and false questions do not need a teacher to recheck the marks. However, gap-filling and open end questions still need individual marking.

We have not come to the point where digitalisation of resources and tests save time and money. On the contrary, the time involved quite often exceeds previous methods of resource creation.
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  #147  
Old 17.02.2021, 09:52
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Online tests can be given with today's technology but they still have to be monitored due to the temptation of cheating from your mobile, books, notes, etc. This means that tests cannot be administered outside of the school.

Online testing that exclusively involves multiple choice or true and false questions do not need a teacher to recheck the marks. However, gap-filling and open end questions still need individual marking.

We have not come to the point where digitalisation of resources and tests save time and money. On the contrary, the time involved quite often exceeds previous methods of resource creation.
Also, so far, standardised testing has been shown to disadvantage many students - those who have trouble maintaining focus on a given task for longer periods of time, those with reading difficulties, those who feel test anxiety, and others.

While it sounds "fair" to give everyone the same test, it really rewards those who are good at doing tests. This helped me in my days as a student, because I did really well in written tests, but it makes life really hard for those who can't.

Also, let's not get started on teachers who are pressured into "teaching to the test", since in some cases their job will be heavily influenced by the results their students receive ... and yes, I have a friend who worked in a school where the principal vetted students seeking entry, to take only those who performed well on these tests, so that the school would maintain a reputation as a "great school" (ie, one that always receives high scores on the relevant standardised tests).
Governments "ranking" schools by these tests also leads many parents to only choose a "good" school, resulting in schools with low scores only getting those with no choice but to go there - which often meant the scores were even lower next year.


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Never. Never a creative lesson lost. Kids do not like careful teachers. Even if you are, don't be.


Hahahaha, I know that you are an anti-glitter glue heretic saint! That's why I advertised it a bit, but honestly - not nuts about it either but know a lot of people who are. Glitter and glitter glue. Bubbles and paint mixing. None of this let's not get too dirty schtick.
It's not about kids (or myself) getting dirty, it's about getting another teacher's classroom filthy. When I was casual teaching I wanted to get out the door as soon as possible once the kids were done and gone, not have to spend time checking and cleaning the classroom due to kids making a mess of the place.

There are plenty of forms of creativity like creating stories (or even just characters), poems, songs, sound trails ... none of which involve potentially making a mess in somebody else's classroom.
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  #148  
Old 17.02.2021, 10:23
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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What an odd post. Workflow analysis and design is just fancy talk for efficient lesson planning and preparation.

With the advent of digitalisation in schools, materials need to be redesigned and methods reconsidered. Currently, textbooks are seen as archaic relics of the past as we embark on pdfs that now can be used as worksheets while embracing collaboration (student sharing) programs that allow groups to work together digitally. Games, assessments, online testing and project papers are all now created and designed to meet the needs of digital education. Computers need to be fully-powered and maintained in order to increase efficiency in learning. Redesigning curriculums and relentless digital schooling has become a constant stress in teachers' lives.
It doesn't have to be stressful. It is exciting. I am glad for the changes, technology can speed stuff up, make it easier, more simple and lighter, more accessible tothe digital generation, too. I got lighter bag now with digital books and virtual classrooms than trucking all the paper. It still happens but less. Mostly a couple of memory scards/sticks..Loads of visual aids every class. Prep is time taking but it is exciting, research basically.
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  #149  
Old 17.02.2021, 10:26
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Also, so far, standardised testing has been shown to disadvantage many students - those who have trouble maintaining focus on a given task for longer periods of time, those with reading difficulties, those who feel test anxiety, and others.

While it sounds "fair" to give everyone the same test, it really rewards those who are good at doing tests. This helped me in my days as a student, because I did really well in written tests, but it makes life really hard for those who can't.

Also, let's not get started on teachers who are pressured into "teaching to the test", since in some cases their job will be heavily influenced by the results their students receive ... and yes, I have a friend who worked in a school where the principal vetted students seeking entry, to take only those who performed well on these tests, so that the school would maintain a reputation as a "great school" (ie, one that always receives high scores on the relevant standardised tests).
Governments "ranking" schools by these tests also leads many parents to only choose a "good" school, resulting in schools with low scores only getting those with no choice but to go there - which often meant the scores were even lower next year.




It's not about kids (or myself) getting dirty, it's about getting another teacher's classroom filthy. When I was casual teaching I wanted to get out the door as soon as possible once the kids were done and gone, not have to spend time checking and cleaning the classroom due to kids making a mess of the place.
Yeah...the nomad life of a sub. I miss the thrill of the newness

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There are plenty of forms of creativity like creating stories (or even just characters), poems, songs, sound trails ... none of which involve potentially making a mess in somebody else's classroom.
Of course.

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  #150  
Old 17.02.2021, 10:38
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Trips, visits to museums, theatre etc are also part of the education process.And it's one thing to have kids of certain ages all in the same room - manageable, and a different thing to have them in a very different environment where many of them usually start being..."hyper" and you have to make sure they all come back in one piece. I've been to these kind of trips myself from the accompanying parent position and trust me no-one relaxes. I'm not saying it is not nice, but it's also work.

Great fun, very rewarding, and totally exhausting. Especially when you do so in your own half-term holiday, leaving by bus straight after school on Friday afternoon, travelling by bus overnight to destination, arriving early afternoon the next day- skiing or snowboarding with the kids in their morning lessons to help out, then skiing or snowboarding with the kids, guiding them and praticising what they had learnt with them- then games, more evening activities after supper- then clown, police or social work till late- then return by bus at the end of the week- just in time to do some washing and get back into school. Every year we said, never again- and then next year we were back on the bus- because the kids got so much out of it. Yeah. Some schools did ski trips in term-time, all organised by special companies, with flights, and jakuzzis in the room, and teachers free all day to go skiing on their own- for about 3 to 4 times the cost - but not us. We used to organise second-hand sales for ski clothes, etc, to cut cost again.

YHA trips for disadvantaged kids who never had a chance to get away were at weekends to- bus after school, and return late on Sunday, and school on Monday. Work experience trips to France for out 6th Formers were also during our holiday- driving the bus there and back ourselves. Really fabulous experience for the youngsters- fun but totally exhausting too.

And were the trips 'free' oh yes for sure- but fancy holidays' well, NO.

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  #151  
Old 17.02.2021, 11:47
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Also, so far, standardised testing has been shown to disadvantage many students - those who have trouble maintaining focus on a given task for longer periods of time, those with reading difficulties, those who feel test anxiety, and others.

While it sounds "fair" to give everyone the same test, it really rewards those who are good at doing tests. This helped me in my days as a student, because I did really well in written tests, but it makes life really hard for those who can't.
How are those points a consequence of, or significantly aggravated by, standardisation and digitalisation? Can you elaborate a bit please?

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Great fun, very rewarding, and totally exhausting.
Very much so.

But partaking is far too risky for any man nowadays. One single claim, whether true or maliciously placed (e.g. because a pupil wants to take revenge for what they perceive as unfair "punishment") and you're toast. Even if they turn out to be false, something always sticks.

I would strongly advise any man, of any age, against taking part nowadays, especially against overnight and week-long undertakings.

Last edited by roegner; 17.02.2021 at 13:10. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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  #152  
Old 17.02.2021, 12:33
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If you did, it would show in your posts. ...

Still, and just out of curiosity, how many years of experience do you have in workflow analysis and design? That's what my posts are about at their core.
And while I'm at it, how many years have you tought at Swiss public schools?

16 years. 21 years if you count my previous career.
No Swiss public schools but one private one. Relevance?
How many years have you taught for? Please, do show us your expertise in the field. It's always useful to get a peer's input and an insight into their experience.

Workflow analysis and design, as I understand it, it's how lesson prep, delivery and assessments works. It's continuously striving for operational excellence whilst being constantly aware of the changing needs of your customer in order to support them in reaching their full potential. That's what my experience is in, at its core: continuous improvement.

I understand that by not simplying sitting down and shutting the feck up I appear to be bothering you. So put me on your ignore list and scroll on by.

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Online tests can be given with today's technology but they still have to be monitored due to the temptation of cheating from your mobile, books, notes, etc. This means that tests cannot be administered outside of the school.

Online testing that exclusively involves multiple choice or true and false questions do not need a teacher to recheck the marks. However, gap-filling and open end questions still need individual marking.

We have not come to the point where digitalisation of resources and tests save time and money. On the contrary, the time involved quite often exceeds previous methods of resource creation.
This.

The national exams I have marked for over a decade are now all scanned into a bespoke system but all marking is done by a qualified person. I mark Lit, though, which requires a slightly more complex system of agreed standardisation and skills assessment because, essentially, it's not a "right/wrong" subject. That's mostly my role now: ensuring the standard is reached and maintained.

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Also, so far, standardised testing has been shown to disadvantage many students - those who have trouble maintaining focus on a given task for longer periods of time, those with reading difficulties, those who feel test anxiety, and others.

While it sounds "fair" to give everyone the same test, it really rewards those who are good at doing tests. This helped me in my days as a student, because I did really well in written tests, but it makes life really hard for those who can't.

Also, let's not get started on teachers who are pressured into "teaching to the test", since in some cases their job will be heavily influenced by the results their students receive ... and yes, I have a friend who worked in a school where the principal vetted students seeking entry, to take only those who performed well on these tests, so that the school would maintain a reputation as a "great school" (ie, one that always receives high scores on the relevant standardised tests).
Governments "ranking" schools by these tests also leads many parents to only choose a "good" school, resulting in schools with low scores only getting those with no choice but to go there - which often meant the scores were even lower next year.




It's not about kids (or myself) getting dirty, it's about getting another teacher's classroom filthy. When I was casual teaching I wanted to get out the door as soon as possible once the kids were done and gone, not have to spend time checking and cleaning the classroom due to kids making a mess of the place.

There are plenty of forms of creativity like creating stories (or even just characters), poems, songs, sound trails ... none of which involve potentially making a mess in somebody else's classroom.
Exactly. All of this.

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How are those points a consequence of, or significantly aggravated by, standardisation and digitalisation? Can you elaborate a bit please?
Because there is no standard child. If, in terms of subjects that are skills instead of content based, it is determined that there is only a prescribed way of "being right" it immediately disadvantages those who view the situation differently. Subjects that do have correct answers can benefit but again, if part of the marks are awarded for a demonstration of a process towards that answer then, again, issues arise.

If the task is to write a detailed description of a graveyard in order to demonstrate an ability to skillfully use language techniques in order to hook a reader... then there are a myriad ways of doing that. If the examiner is told to look for a, say, minimum of 5 linguistic techniques etc and a student "only" uses four, but does so skilfully, precisely, engagingly, then why is it wrong?


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Very much so.

But partaking is far too risky for any man nowadays. One single claim, whether true or maliciously placed (e.g. because a pupil wants to take revenge for what they perceive as unfair "punishment") and you're toast. Even if they turn out to be false, something always sticks.

I would strongly advise any man, of any age, against taking part nowadays, especially against overnight and week-long undertakings.

This seems to be key to the way you view life: men as victims. It smacks of projection to me.

Many, many, teachers are male.
Accusations can be made against female teachers too. That's why I say safeguarding works both ways and why unions are so important.

That's why there are carefully defined standards and practices for anyone working in schools and colleges, a live DBS database in the UK , and why safeguarding is a huge area of recruitment, outgoing CPD and is embedded within everything we do. In the UK there are designated safeguarding sections of applications and interviews. The vast majority of people who work in education understand and respects this. It is ingrained from the first days of training. We understand that the very skills that make us effective can be used by those who seek to abuse. It's the same for anyone in authority.

Last edited by RufusB; 17.02.2021 at 13:17. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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  #153  
Old 17.02.2021, 13:19
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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16 years. 21 years if you count my previous career.
No Swiss public schools but one private one. Relevance?
How many years have you taught for? Please, do show us your expertise in the field. It's always useful to get a peer's input and an insight into their experience.
As I already said, none. Not that your experience is of much use, you wouldn't have said "Because standardised materials don't work" if it were.
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  #154  
Old 17.02.2021, 13:22
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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As I already said, none. Not that your experience is of much use, you wouldn't say "Because standardised materials don't work" if it were.
Standardised materials do not work for everyone. Fact. It's why differentiation within lessons and for resources is important and why individual education plans are rife. You would understand that if you also didn't have some bizarre agenda.

You have absolutely no experience in the field but assert that mine is of no use? All you "know" is what you have determined about me, a total stranger on the internet. It's pretty sad. But what do I know? Lots and lots about little boys who think they are big, big men, who believe that all they have to do to get the bitch to STFU is puff up their chests, shout louder and try to put her down. I eats 'em. Whole.

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  #155  
Old 17.02.2021, 15:15
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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As I already said, none. Not that your experience is of much use, you wouldn't have said "Because standardised materials don't work" if it were.
If you knew anything at all about teaching you’d know why standardised models are not the suitable for everyone.
Children are not robots they don’t all conform to an exact set of rules and all learn things in exactly the same way.
A good teacher knows how to adapt things to get the very best out if their students.
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  #156  
Old 17.02.2021, 15:54
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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If you knew anything at all about teaching you’d know why standardised models are not the suitable for everyone.
Children are not robots they don’t all conform to an exact set of rules and all learn things in exactly the same way.
A good teacher knows how to adapt things to get the very best out if their students.
The need for completion/adaptation is a template's core attribute.

It helps to read what others post before you reply. If you can't be bothered there's no discussion in the first place.
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Old 17.02.2021, 16:19
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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If you knew anything at all about teaching you’d know why standardised models are not the suitable for everyone.
Children are not robots they don’t all conform to an exact set of rules and all learn things in exactly the same way.
A good teacher knows how to adapt things to get the very best out if their students.
And that applies to all kinds of teaching, be it academic, or sport. The best ski instructor I have had observed each and everyone in the group- and by second day had worked out what needed to be done to get each student to achieve their potential- even this lobsided one with a much shorter leg and rotten knee. Did 2 different advanced courses with him- and it was amazing to watch him assess and teach.
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Old 17.02.2021, 16:20
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Also, so far, standardised testing has been shown to disadvantage many students - those who have trouble maintaining focus on a given task for longer periods of time, those with reading difficulties, those who feel test anxiety, and others.

While it sounds "fair" to give everyone the same test, it really rewards those who are good at doing tests. This helped me in my days as a student, because I did really well in written tests, but it makes life really hard for those who can't.
Surely it's the same in life, some people can't focus, have stress issues & perform badly. Surely the point of a test is to separate those who can complete the task & those who can't?

I was the annoying kid that in maths would put his hand up & point out the teacher made a mistake on the blackboard which is why their answer is incorrect
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Old 17.02.2021, 16:33
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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Surely it's the same in life, some people can't focus, have stress issues & perform badly. Surely the point of a test is to separate those who can complete the task & those who can't?

I was the annoying kid that in maths would put his hand up & point out the teacher made a mistake on the blackboard which is why their answer is incorrect
Good for you.
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Old 17.02.2021, 16:36
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Re: Do teachers/professors have vacations when kids have it?

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The need for completion/adaptation is a template's core attribute.

It helps to read what others post before you reply. If you can't be bothered there's no discussion in the first place.
I'll try again. In the UK, the National Curriculum is the "template", only it's really a set of skills and areas to cover. Every school, every department, will approach this differently, to the point of using entirely different texts and resources.

Templates, as you appear to understand them, aren't used.

A four-part lesson "template" may be used, but within that will be so many moving parts as for each whole to be entirely different from the rest.

No two teachers will teach the same text in the same way. I wouldn't teach say, Macbeth, the same way to different classes even though the text I am working from is the same. There are many, many routes to learning.
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