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-   -   Medical sick note (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/303516-medical-sick-note.html)

PoppyGirl 06.04.2021 22:32

Medical sick note
 
My company require a sick note after three days off as is common in Swiss law

If someone is ill on Monday and goes to see the doctor on wedensday does the doctor start the note from the wed or Monday ?

curley 06.04.2021 22:42

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PoppyGirl (Post 3293344)
My company require a sick note after three days off as is common in Swiss law

If someone is ill on Monday and goes to see the doctor on wedensday does the doctor start the note from the wed or Monday ?

Normally from Monday but you need to tell him when it started.

Kittster 06.04.2021 23:52

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 3293351)
Normally from Monday but you need to tell him when it started.

Careful, it depends on what you have and the doctor. Many doctors say they can only give you a note that starts from the day that they see you. Which makes sense. However, since the note is required from the third day, the first two are in good faith, so no worries.

PoppyGirl 07.04.2021 10:49

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittster (Post 3293371)
Careful, it depends on what you have and the doctor. Many doctors say they can only give you a note that starts from the day that they see you. Which makes sense. However, the not is required from the third day, the first two are in good faith, so no worries.

Are you quite sure about that? This contradicts the advice from the previous post which says it needs to be backdated to the Monday.

Does anyone know for sure what the right answer is?

treeg 07.04.2021 11:08

Re: Medical sick note
 
The best answer is to ask your employer - from what day they need the sick note. Your employer`s insurer sets these rules, as they are the ones that pay, when you are sick, longer than a certain number of days.

Kittster 07.04.2021 14:59

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PoppyGirl (Post 3293446)
Are you quite sure about that? This contradicts the advice from the previous post which says it needs to be backdated to the Monday.

Does anyone know for sure what the right answer is?

1. Why does it matter? If you can be sick for two days without a note and are still too sick to work on day three, then you are still compliant with rules if your note starts on day three.

2. I gave you the right answer, based not only on official guidance but also on personal experience. I used to get sick quite often before I changed jobs, so I "collected" over a dozen sick notes in the past ten years. Some doctors only agree to make the note out from the day you were in their office, others will ask you from when you had symptoms. It also depends on the nature of your illness.

3. Simply apply your common sense: If you rock up at the doctor's with a rotten cold on Wednesday and say you have had it since you had to leave work earlier on Friday afternoon because you felt so terrible, do you really expect them to just take your word for it and write you a note from them on? Even if you say Monday, there is no guarantee that you are telling the truth.

The doctor should only consider backdating the sick note (an official document) if they see clear evidence that your illness has lasted since the time that you say it did but even then, anything more than a few days is pushing it. For example, if they x-ray your lungs after hearing a rattling noise when you breathe and they are full of gunk, it's pretty certain that this did not happen within 24 hours. If you come in saying you have a stomach bug, then you will more than likely only get a note that starts on the day you presented yourself to the doctor.

bowlie 07.04.2021 15:52

Re: Medical sick note
 
IMHO sick notes are the silliest thing on the planet. Most Drs will issue one for a few days off on request.

In a previous life I had someone reporting to me who was constantly off Fridays and Mondays because she was feeling poorly. HR asked a few times for sick notes as it was so frequent. She always got one.

I asked HR if we could ask for a second opinion, ie to send her to a Dr of our choice. Not possible, I was told.

curley 07.04.2021 16:02

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittster (Post 3293371)
Careful, it depends on what you have and the doctor. Many doctors say they can only give you a note that starts from the day that they see you. Which makes sense. However, since the note is required from the third day, the first two are in good faith, so no worries.

Agreed. And legally correct your way.

One can be ill 2 days without a doctor's certificate anytime (if one doesn't do it too often and/or always around the week-end :D)
The doctor can only do it the day they see you and the first two days are covered anyway (no insurance pays for those).

Accidents are different. They start on the day the accident happened even if the person only sees a doctor a while after (which is often the case).

Landers 07.04.2021 18:12

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittster (Post 3293371)
Many doctors say they can only give you a note that starts from the day that they see you. Which makes sense.

It makes no sense. Often if you're too ill to go to work you're too ill to go to a doctor.

hoover1 07.04.2021 19:50

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 3293598)
Agreed. And legally correct your way.


Accidents are different. They start on the day the accident happened even if the person only sees a doctor a while after (which is often the case).

I never been there however as far I have seen my HR - option to have 2nd opinion is possible based on what i was told.

However for things that be difficult to prove - it be of little value and as a manager - you'd have damaged relationship with your employee right there so it's one way street no matter what the outcome (from 2nd opinion ) is.

newtoswitz 07.04.2021 21:18

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3293670)
It makes no sense. Often if you're too ill to go to work you're too ill to go to a doctor.

I've only ever had one sick note (for flu) and I didn't go to the doctor - I phoned, he called me back and asked my symptoms etc. Told me to stay away to avoid spreading it and posted me a note.

Kittster 07.04.2021 22:01

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3293670)
It makes no sense. Often if you're too ill to go to work you're too ill to go to a doctor.

I'm not disputing the unfairness of the system for those who are really in a terrible way. I don't remember anything about some of the times where I dragged myself in for a note because I was so out of it. I worked for someone who basically felt the only acceptable type of note was one that got tied to your big toe with string. One time, all the assistants got ill one after the other and he called me to say I couldn't leave him hanging, doctors' notes were nonsense anyway. I ended up going in the next day despite still running a 39.5° temperature and vaguely hallucinating.

bowlie 08.04.2021 07:26

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hoover1 (Post 3293709)
I never been there however as far I have seen my HR - option to have 2nd opinion is possible based on what i was told.

However for things that be difficult to prove - it be of little value and as a manager - you'd have damaged relationship with your employee right there so it's one way street no matter what the outcome (from 2nd opinion ) is.

In the case I mentioned I had intended to use ii as a threat, or a warning. ie HR is getting concerned about your absences, next time you are off they will want you to talk to Dr. Bloggs before approving your sick time.

The young lady was not happy in her job and somewhat bored. She left after a short period of time.

Susie-Q 08.04.2021 08:24

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3293670)
It makes no sense. Often if you're too ill to go to work you're too ill to go to a doctor.

I just emailed mine last time I had the flu, she put it in the post & sent a bill...

araqyl 08.04.2021 13:04

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlie (Post 3293595)
IMHO sick notes are the silliest thing on the planet. Most Drs will issue one for a few days off on request.

In a previous life I had someone reporting to me who was constantly off Fridays and Mondays because she was feeling poorly. HR asked a few times for sick notes as it was so frequent. She always got one.

I asked HR if we could ask for a second opinion, ie to send her to a Dr of our choice. Not possible, I was told.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlie (Post 3293821)
In the case I mentioned I had intended to use ii as a threat, or a warning. ie HR is getting concerned about your absences, next time you are off they will want you to talk to Dr. Bloggs before approving your sick time.

The young lady was not happy in her job and somewhat bored. She left after a short period of time.

I was going to say that behaviour like this simply means they're next to go when somebody needs to leave, but it seems like she was just doing the minimum she could get away with until she found another job.

hoover1 08.04.2021 15:05

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by araqyl (Post 3293954)
I was going to say that behaviour like this simply means they're next to go when somebody needs to leave, but it seems like she was just doing the minimum she could get away with until she found another job.

Right there is opportunity for a manager to motivate and care for emoloyee - understand reasons or sometimes reflect on past experiences , don't we all sometimes oversell the job to prospect employee , don't we "expect"rather than "support"... list goes on an on.

There is people that are hard to motivate - that's where you find managers either helping or judging . I have seen many managers ...and very few leaders .

Urs Max 08.04.2021 20:01

Re: Medical sick note
 
It's not true that paid sick leave must kick in on the first day. There can be up to three so-called KarenzTage, i.e. it's possible that the first days (up to 3) are unpaid.

This depends on your employment contract.

hoover1 08.04.2021 20:19

Re: Medical sick note
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 3294207)
It's not true that paid sick leave must kick in on the first day. There can be up to three so-called KarenzTage, i.e. it's possible that the first days (up to 3) are unpaid.

This depends on your employment contract.


I guess reason is simple that first 3-days of sick leave is paid (or not) by the company's and after 3-rd day it's insurance that takes over the costs ( depends on salary it be full or %).

That is the reason one should provide "Ärztliche Zeugnisse" as insurance company may request it .

with "Ärztliche Zeugnisse" there is also a fee you pay to the doctor - which is in fact insurance against 3rd party claims ( insurance calling for 2nd opinion ) and proving wrong doing.


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