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-   -   Freshly terminated (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/303519-freshly-terminated.html)

marcofbbr 07.04.2021 00:04

Freshly terminated
 
I just wanted to share my negative work experience in CH

Hired 1 year ago.
Quickly realised that the company organisation was a total mess. (a multinational)

I quickly got the impression that they hired me instead of hiring a contractor (to save on costs?!) and they did the same with a couple of other colleagues.

The employer is outsourcing the ICT department.

Got a termination letter with 3 months notice, without requirements to work during the notice, but the holidays/overtime won't be payed (around 40-45 days) .

Conclusion: the risks of working in CH as an employee are REAL. In my case I have been squeezed like a contractor. At least I was lucky as my colleagues who joined later cannot even get the unemployment benefits.

Chuff 07.04.2021 07:02

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcofbbr (Post 3293373)
I just wanted to share my negative work experience in CH

Hired 1 year ago.
Quickly realised that the company organisation was a total mess. (a multinational)

I quickly got the impression that they hired me instead of hiring a contractor (to save on costs?!) and they did the same with a couple of other colleagues.

The employer is outsourcing the ICT department.

Got a termination letter with 3 months notice, without requirements to work during the notice, but the holidays/overtime won't be payed (around 40-45 days) .

Conclusion: the risks of working in CH as an employee are REAL. In my case I have been squeezed like a contractor. At least I was lucky as my colleagues who joined later cannot even get the unemployment benefits.

This sucks, but the same can happen in pretty much any country. They gave you the proper contractual 3 months notice with no requirement to work it... that's a pretty good outcome.

Badly managed companies exist everywhere.

kri 07.04.2021 07:20

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcofbbr (Post 3293373)
I just wanted to share my negative work experience in CH

Hired 1 year ago.
Quickly realised that the company organisation was a total mess. (a multinational)

I quickly got the impression that they hired me instead of hiring a contractor (to save on costs?!) and they did the same with a couple of other colleagues.

The employer is outsourcing the ICT department.

Got a termination letter with 3 months notice, without requirements to work during the notice, but the holidays/overtime won't be payed (around 40-45 days) .

Conclusion: the risks of working in CH as an employee are REAL. In my case I have been squeezed like a contractor. At least I was lucky as my colleagues who joined later cannot even get the unemployment benefits.

Can try to fight the vacation/overtime thing. If you have legal insurance a nicely worded letter might do it.

Other than that, yeah the risks are real. Partly compensated by the high salaries. Anybofnus can be let go with just notice and not many rights.

NotAllThere 07.04.2021 08:29

Re: Freshly terminated
 
If there's no requirement to work the three months, then that's where the holiday and overtime will go.

Sinking 07.04.2021 08:31

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 3293404)
If there's no requirement to work the three months, then that's where the holiday and overtime will go.

This.

Just check that overtime + entitled number of holidays do not exceed the 3 months notice (probably not).

Agreed that this has nothing to do with a negative Swiss experience but rather a negative employer experience.

Good luck.

kri 07.04.2021 09:25

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 3293404)
If there's no requirement to work the three months, then that's where the holiday and overtime will go.

Yep - can still try to make a claim on it and perhaps employer will give in. Not mandatory I agree but not a big loss to at least try and make a claim it will not be possible to take any vacation given you are busy with searching for a new role etc etc.

Does not hurt to try, have seen it work.

hoover1 07.04.2021 14:13

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3293394)
This sucks, but the same can happen in pretty much any country. They gave you the proper contractual 3 months notice with no requirement to work it... that's a pretty good outcome.

Badly managed companies exist everywhere.

just a note that legal is 1-month termination notice after 1-year employment so 3-months is nothing you could complain about and in that time you may consume your accumulated holidays

Sinking 07.04.2021 14:17

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hoover1 (Post 3293551)
just a note that legal is 1-month termination notice after 1-year employment so 3-months is nothing you could complain about and in that time you may consume your accumulated holidays

According to the law, yes.

According to his employer, it depends.

My contract has a 3 months notice period after the first year.

Chuff 07.04.2021 14:18

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hoover1 (Post 3293551)
just a note that legal is 1-month termination notice after 1-year employment so 3-months is nothing you could complain about and in that time you may consume your accumulated holidays

True, although depending on the job and level some contracts stipulate a 3 month notice period.

litespeed 07.04.2021 15:47

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Termination periods are contract specific, but work both ways.

3 months tends to be standard, but I have seen 2, 3, 4 and 6 months in other contracts. Usually the more business critical the job, the longer the resignation period.

marcofbbr 07.04.2021 19:22

Re: Freshly terminated
 
thanks everybody for your comments.

Do you know whether the termination reason could impact the unemployment benefit?

I have just checked the termination letter and it is not mentioned so I am not sure what to specify for the unemployment registration. Anybody could help with that?

This what they stated: "For the reason explained to you verbally, we are forced to terminate...."

komsomolez 07.04.2021 19:25

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcofbbr (Post 3293696)
thanks everybody for your comments.

Do you know whether the termination reason could impact the unemployment benefit?

I have just checked the termination letter and it is not mentioned so I am not sure what to specify for the unemployment registration. Anybody could help with that?

This what they stated: "For the reason explained to you verbally, we are forced to terminate...."

Although this is a weird sentence, you are fine as long as they terminate and you don't decline any offer of a new contract.

hoover1 07.04.2021 19:58

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcofbbr (Post 3293696)
thanks everybody for your comments.

Do you know whether the termination reason could impact the unemployment benefit?

I have just checked the termination letter and it is not mentioned so I am not sure what to specify for the unemployment registration. Anybody could help with that?

This what they stated: "For the reason explained to you verbally, we are forced to terminate...."

https://www.jobs.ch/de/job-coach/das...n-der-schweiz/

https://www.unia.ch/uploads/media/Br...bruf_dt_A6.pdf

You may want to ask to write termination letter differently .

Pretty standard is "due to change in economic situation" which is applicable almost always (with very few exceptions )


You should ask for Arbeitszeugnis
https://www.ch.ch/de/arbeitszeugnis/

"Worth knowing: If the employer has not taken the necessary steps so that the employee can actually take his vacation, the employee may request that the vacation be paid in full again when terminating the employment relationship."

You may try that if your employer didn't ask you to use your holidays in the 3-months of your termination.

Jim2007 07.04.2021 19:58

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcofbbr (Post 3293696)
thanks everybody for your comments.

Do you know whether the termination reason could impact the unemployment benefit?

I have just checked the termination letter and it is not mentioned so I am not sure what to specify for the unemployment registration. Anybody could help with that?

This what they stated: "For the reason explained to you verbally, we are forced to terminate...."

Then you need to be very careful in giving your description to the RAV, as the employer will also have to complete a form explaining the reason for your termination.

Landers 08.04.2021 00:06

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hoover1 (Post 3293713)
"Worth knowing: If the employer has not taken the necessary steps so that the employee can actually take his vacation, the employee may request that the vacation be paid in full again when terminating the employment relationship."

You may try that if your employer didn't ask you to use your holidays in the 3-months of your termination.

It might be worth trying, certainly if you have legal insurance, maybe not so much if you don't. One argument is if you're looking for work then you're not enjoying a vacation. E.g. you spend two weeks looking for a job then get one within that three months.

Landers 08.04.2021 00:10

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hoover1 (Post 3293713)
You may want to ask to write termination letter differently .

Pretty standard is "due to change in economic situation" which is applicable almost always (with very few exceptions )


You should ask for Arbeitszeugnis

I don't think the termination letter is of any particular relevance. The reason isn't normally a concern for the RAV. However, if you were to tell them that the reason given verbally was because you were black/white/man/moman/gay etc then it might be, but then again...

Certainly more important is the reference letter, which you usually can negotiate if you don't like the wording.

Landers 08.04.2021 00:16

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcofbbr (Post 3293373)

Conclusion: the risks of working in CH as an employee are REAL. In my case I have been squeezed like a contractor. At least I was lucky as my colleagues who joined later cannot even get the unemployment benefits.

Certainly coming from somewhere like the UK (such as the UK, for those who don't understand) where you have a certain amount of job protection, working in Switzerland is very insecure. At least we get more than the oft quoted US "two weeks notice".

Even if you work here as a contractor, you're usually contrived into an employment contract with the same statutory protection as any other employee, including unemployment insurance. The protection if you do lose your job after 12 months is also REAL.

cremebrulee 08.04.2021 09:04

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Sorry to hear about your termination. It sounds like you received a proper termination and that your employment contract probably had a 3 month notice period which they are now honouring.

As others have mentioned, your outstanding holidays are intended to be covered by your notice period, during which you time you are not required to work. You could try to seek payment for your outstanding holidays - you have a 50/50 chance that they will agree. It's possible they didn't offer this to you because you haven't been around that long.

But if you end up renegotiating the terms of your termination, beware that they might ask you to work your notice period as a trade off ...

komsomolez 08.04.2021 09:15

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim2007 (Post 3293714)
Then you need to be very careful in giving your description to the RAV, as the employer will also have to complete a form explaining the reason for your termination.

OP mentioned outsourcing, but if employer does not provide a reasons in writing pobably best to answer "do not know" or "unclear". But again, it is clear they terminate, it appears that this effect others in the org and no other job has been offered. I see no reason why OP would not get regular RAV withoit problems. Usual 5 or 20 day "waiting time" and off you go.

st2lemans 08.04.2021 09:26

Re: Freshly terminated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcofbbr (Post 3293696)
This what they stated: "For the reason explained to you verbally, we are forced to terminate...."

What did they state verbally? :confused:

Tom


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