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Old 08.05.2021, 19:05
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Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

I have changed user name to protect my identity

I have been off work since December 2020 after a number of personal factors all came together including a horrible team, death of relatives, relationship breakdown and a change in manager who made it clear I was not welcomed.

As this is now month six I expect the protection notice to finish and therefore able to be terminated. I worked for five years in total and have a B permit which has been renewed.

My doctor has supported me and continued to sign me off but he is not sure what happens next.

a) If I do receive the termination letter is that the end of my job with my employer?
b) Is there any further help from the employers insurance? I heard there was 720 days of insurance but I dont know how this works exactly.
c) Will the employer UBS terminate me as they are not actually paying or will they leave it to the case manager who works for the insurance company to decide?
d) does my manager decide if I should be kept on whilst sick or is it HR and company wide policy?

I do not want to go onto IV and I also feel bad about claiming from the RAV

My situation has improved and I am hopeful to be back at work in a few months time

Question b is really the most important one for me
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  #2  
Old 08.05.2021, 19:17
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

The employer will have contracted insurance with an external provider for the 720 days. In cases I know, this insurance will keep paying even after termination, but this depends on the.contract b/w the two. In my case, this is explained in an annex to my employment contract.

You will have to check with UBS, I guess.
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Old 08.05.2021, 21:40
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

Re a) Employers may not terminate the employment of employees off work due to illness or pregnancy.

https://www.ch.ch/en/inability-work-...ess-pregnancy/
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Old 08.05.2021, 21:52
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

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Re a) Employers may not terminate the employment of employees off work due to illness or pregnancy.

https://www.ch.ch/en/inability-work-...ess-pregnancy/
That is not correct. Employer can terminate after a certain period which is dependent on tenure of employment.

https://www.beobachter.ch/arbeit/arb...bei-entlassung
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Old 08.05.2021, 22:10
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

In your title you state that your employer is UBS. In this case UBS HR/Social Counseling will automatically contact you after a certain level of sick leave, and explain the procedure. They will also provide you with documentation showing the timeline of what happens and when, according to sick-leave taken, time employed at company, age etc. according to Company policy which is in-line within Swiss regulations.

I would just drop a line to HR asking them for these details, and they‘ll provide them together with any support you might need. Circumstances such as horrible team, personal circumstances etc. will not impact the outcome - so focus on your health and recovery!

Speak not as a UBS HR employee, but as a UBS employee.

Good luck!
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Old 08.05.2021, 22:23
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

An employer is liable to continue to pay your salary if you are ill. The employer will have insured this risk, so that they can claim your salary back from their insurer. That, however, is a transaction which does not involve you, as your salary payments will continue to arrive from your employer.

How much and for how long the salary is paid should be defined in your employment contract, or, as ZuriRollt wrote, this information can be obtained from the HR department, which might give you a copy of the rules, or might refer you to their insurer.

In some cases, the insurer, having the main interest, will send a case manager to visit you, to enquire about your health and your reasons for not being able to go to work. Always remember that the case manager represents the insurer, and so their priorty is to try to get you back to work so they can stop paying and close their file on you. The case manager aims to figure out what, exactly, you would need from the employer, to be able to return to work. They may identify factors to do with the content of the work, the physical environment, and psychological needs, including what you yourself tell them, and considering whatever your doctors/therapists have specified.

The employer officially has a duty to try to help prevent disability, and some employers do this better than others. Ideally, they will work together with you and the case manager. The case manager should coordinate with HR, with your current line manager and more senior levels, and possibly with other departments, to try to get you back to work.

Obviously, they cannot go against a doctor's certificate which says you cannot work. A doctor's certificate can specify that you are 100% off work, or less, say, 50%. Since, as you say, you don't want to go to the IV, it can be a good idea - once your doctor considers you fit - to try to work half days. This, especially if the case manager can motivate to get you into a healthier work environment. If it seems to work, you could increase from 50% to 80% and then back to 100%, each step after some weeks or months. If that works out, the matter is over and you will be earning regularly again.

Whether or not you do try 50% or so, if it becomes clear that your health has deteriorated to such an extent that you cannot work, at all, or cannot work enough to earn as much as you were achieving before having become long-term ill, then you will be registered at the IV. This can be done by you, or your doctor, or the case manager or in some cases HR. Disability, in Switzerland, is measured by comparing "income achieved while well" with "lesser income achieveable while ill".

RAV is out of the picture for as long as you are ill and cannot work. To claim from RAV, one has to be "vermittelbar", which means able to be sent out to work.

Last edited by doropfiz; 09.05.2021 at 09:52. Reason: added explanation that disability is measured in terms of relative earnings.
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Old 09.05.2021, 19:00
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

Hi

On Rechtswissen.ch you will find a tool that tells you your wage-entitlements and the protection against dismissal in the event of illness. Maybe it can help you.

Here is the link: https://rechtswissen.ch/tools/lohnfo...-sperrfristen/

Kind regards

Lordthebruce
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Old 09.05.2021, 19:25
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

If your employer has salary insurance to cover the 720 days then you effectively *must* apply/register with IV as any IV money would re-imburse the insurer. They will contact you. In the first instance they work with the employer to establish likelihood of being able to return to work and if any interventions can help you do that. If you refuse to register with the IV the insurer will stop paying and may reclaim money paid to you. After a while the IV will establish whether you're permanently unable to work and to what extent. After this you then might have a claim against your pillar 2 pension depending on the level of cover and you might have a claim to benefits that might be due to you in other countries you've lived in.
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Old 09.05.2021, 19:35
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

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I have changed user name to protect my identity

I have been off work since December 2020 after a number of personal factors all came together including a horrible team, death of relatives, relationship breakdown and a change in manager who made it clear I was not welcomed.

As this is now month six I expect the protection notice to finish and therefore able to be terminated. I worked for five years in total and have a B permit which has been renewed.

My doctor has supported me and continued to sign me off but he is not sure what happens next.

a) If I do receive the termination letter is that the end of my job with my employer?
b) Is there any further help from the employers insurance? I heard there was 720 days of insurance but I dont know how this works exactly.
Check your contract. Generally the employer will make all arrangements. If there is insurance the IV will get involved, whether you like it or not, and they will want to work with the employer and it could be that you don't get fired in this period.

Quote:
I do not want to go onto IV and I also feel bad about claiming from the RAV
My situation has improved and I am hopeful to be back at work in a few months time
IV won't pay out until they've made an assessment and even so it's not very much. As you say your situation has impreoved it's unlikely the IV will give you anything. RAV won't pay unless you're fit to work.

All the best.
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Old 09.05.2021, 19:40
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

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I have changed user name to protect my identity

I have been off work since December 2020 after a number of personal factors all came together including a horrible team, death of relatives, relationship breakdown and a change in manager who made it clear I was not welcomed.

As this is now month six I expect the protection notice to finish and therefore able to be terminated. I worked for five years in total and have a B permit which has been renewed.

My doctor has supported me and continued to sign me off but he is not sure what happens next.

a) If I do receive the termination letter is that the end of my job with my employer?
b) Is there any further help from the employers insurance? I heard there was 720 days of insurance but I dont know how this works exactly.
c) Will the employer UBS terminate me as they are not actually paying or will they leave it to the case manager who works for the insurance company to decide?
d) does my manager decide if I should be kept on whilst sick or is it HR and company wide policy?

I do not want to go onto IV and I also feel bad about claiming from the RAV

My situation has improved and I am hopeful to be back at work in a few months time

Question b is really the most important one for me
I am sorry to hear that and I can't imagine situation you are in. Since you use new username for that purpose I imagine that it has high impact on you . My advise would be :

- Contact someone who can advise on the matter outside of UBS - check where that help could come from.

- Make sure you have your "Zweichenzeugnis" from your former manager - that be "the most important" pace of paper. Use it.

- Look at positive side - worst is behind you - take action to find new place within UBS first - that is what your HR should think of after you check it's best course of action (see above).

Check with HR and seek whenever you'd fit for different opportunities whenever possible and you open to new opportunities.
Be positive and as reason find things that are not pointing against people/company .

Do not give up on UBS - it's easier to find job internally than applying externally .
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Old 09.05.2021, 20:15
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Re: Long Term Ill After Six Months - UBS

Keep in mind that the protection from your employment being terminated depends on how long you've been in the job. If someone is their first year with the employer, their employment may not be terminated in the first 30 days of sickness.
In the 2nd - 5th year, the protection period is 90 days. After that it is 180 days.
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