Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 10.05.2021, 18:53
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 78
Groaned at 16 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 22 Times in 15 Posts
Marog has become a little unpopularMarog has become a little unpopular
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
Are you really going with this logic ? Not quite sure what Planet you live on, but clearly not the same one as me.
That's how Oxford dictionary defines it and a JD should not be Open to Interpretation. It should be precise, the Natives are know for exactly that aren't they ?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users groan at Marog for this post:
  #62  
Old 10.05.2021, 18:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,684
Groaned at 406 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 6,503 Times in 2,988 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
But, we live in a country with 25% foreigners. How can you tell what language someone speaks by the skin? Also consider people is fluent in 2, 3 or 4 languages.
.
That’s a good point. In Switzerland many have at least one language as a second language, that they have learned either as a choice or mandatorily at school. So it‘s not uncommon that Swiss put on their CV that they are bi-lingual or multi-lingual. For example, as mentioned, daughter has 2 „Muttersprachen“ which came from her parents since birth.

In addition, she‘s (in my eyes at least) quite fluent in French and pretty good in Spanish from years of mandatory or chosen advanced studies and exams at school. Swiss German is something „additional“.

But she would never say that one of those is her „Muttersprache“, or even apply for a job requiring this. It‘s true - it‘s common for Swiss people to have additional languages, but how do you weed-out what‘s really usable for the job?

Have you ever heard a Swiss German speaking French, after a lifetime of obligatory and plus chosen additional school years? It‘s often kinda special, like many Swiss Germans speaking English as well infact ...

Kinda like many Americans speaking German

It has nothing to do with skin colour...
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 10.05.2021, 18:57
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,602
Groaned at 2,592 Times in 1,849 Posts
Thanked 39,696 Times in 18,714 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
Management level is not affected by that. If perfect local language is needed, a local is sent to work with the customer. But, who earns more? Management or the one talking to the customer in the common Mutterspräche?

The managers I've met have a good language portfolio but only 1 or 2 at Muttersprache level. The rest are only small talk level in the language of employees, and of course not writing at all.
Alas, for small companies this is certainly NOT the case!

Current problem for us is that I am one of the two remaining German speakers, the Italians are all at A0!

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10.05.2021, 18:58
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 78
Groaned at 16 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 22 Times in 15 Posts
Marog has become a little unpopularMarog has become a little unpopular
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
To be honest if I'd read it I would just assume by "mother tongue" they simply mean the level of German - i.e. it needs to be perfect.

I speak a language that is not my mother tongue, but I learned it very well by living in that country for 15 years. I speak at the level where folks do not believe that I did not learn it as a kid, so on my CV I simply put the level at "mother tongue" because C2 does not really give it justice.
Assumption ? why ? is there a deficiency in the English or German language that lends itself for assumptions ? Although done in good faith it's a lie.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at Marog for this post:
  #65  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:00
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,804
Groaned at 386 Times in 324 Posts
Thanked 15,431 Times in 7,122 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
That's how Oxford dictionary defines it and a JD should not be Open to Interpretation. It should be precise, the Natives are know for exactly that aren't they ?
So? No idea what your native language is…. Not everyone cares about what the Oxford dictionary has to say about Muttersprachler.

And what is a JD???
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:02
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,602
Groaned at 2,592 Times in 1,849 Posts
Thanked 39,696 Times in 18,714 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
That’s a good point. In Switzerland many have at least one language as a second language, that they have learned either as a choice or mandatorily at school.
And it normally sucks.

Most Swiss I know only speak one language at the mother-tongue level, though I have certainly known several who could do 4 or 5 (usually from Grischun)

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:02
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,804
Groaned at 386 Times in 324 Posts
Thanked 15,431 Times in 7,122 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
Assumption ? why ? is there a deficiency in the English or German language that lends itself for assumptions ? Although done in good faith it's a lie.
Yes there is. Is your previous name here Omtatsat??
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,684
Groaned at 406 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 6,503 Times in 2,988 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
yes there is. Is your previous name here omtatsat??
drum roll...............
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:22
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 78
Groaned at 16 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 22 Times in 15 Posts
Marog has become a little unpopularMarog has become a little unpopular
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
So? No idea what your native language is…. Not everyone cares about what the Oxford dictionary has to say about Muttersprachler.

And what is a JD???
Thankfully in a court of law (even non English ones) no one if going to come to you to decipher any text. Guess where they will go though.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Marog for this post:
  #70  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:24
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,804
Groaned at 386 Times in 324 Posts
Thanked 15,431 Times in 7,122 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
Thankfully in a court of law (even non English ones) no one if going to come to you to decipher any text. Guess where they will go though.
You might want to decipher what you said? No clue what you want to say.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:28
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,602
Groaned at 2,592 Times in 1,849 Posts
Thanked 39,696 Times in 18,714 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
Assumption ? why ? is there a deficiency in the English or German language that lends itself for assumptions ? Although done in good faith it's a lie.
Where do you come up with this racist rubbish?

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,684
Groaned at 406 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 6,503 Times in 2,988 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
Thankfully in a court of law (even non English ones) no one if going to come to you to decipher any text. Guess where they will go though.
Just noticed that you‘re from Chigwell (guess that‘s the UK) - which Swiss position are you looking at?

Sometimes it helps to just put in your covering letter for a position in Switzerland, for which you are qualified for a position in Switzerland with work permits etc. that although German is not your mother tongue, you are completely and utterly fluent in German and have absolutely no problem with Swiss German either? Forgot to mention, that you also need to apply for a position that no Swiss person is available to fill (if you‘re not Swiss)...

Last edited by ZuriRollt; 10.05.2021 at 19:41.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post:
  #73  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,939
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,038 Times in 1,188 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
You might want to decipher what you said? No clue what you want to say.
English not your mother-tongue? I guess the company advertising the job wants to avoid such things like the mis-understandings that are present on this forum every day.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:47
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
English not your mother-tongue? I guess the company advertising the job wants to avoid such things like the mis-understandings that are present on this forum every day.
I can think of plenty of mother tongue English couples who constantly misunderstand what the other one said
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:47
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,939
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,038 Times in 1,188 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
Just noticed that you‘re from Chigwell (guess that‘s the UK)
It has a particular reputation but I wouldn't want to be racist
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:47
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,804
Groaned at 386 Times in 324 Posts
Thanked 15,431 Times in 7,122 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
Thankfully in a court of law (even non English ones) no one if going to come to you to decipher any text. Guess where they will go though.
Quote:
View Post
English not your mother-tongue? I guess the company advertising the job wants to avoid such things like the mis-understandings that are present on this forum every day.
Would be glad to get a translation 😀

No, not a native speaker in that language (as most know). No one if going to come does not sound like the Queens English?

I do understand though what was asked for in the advert 😀
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #77  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,684
Groaned at 406 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 6,503 Times in 2,988 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
Would be glad to get a translation ��

No, not a native speaker in that language (as most know). No one if going to come does not sound like the Queens English?

I do understand though what was asked for in the advert ��
Have to admit that I understood your post, but not Marogs. But I‘m from nature naive, and always critised for speaking (almost) queens English. My Mom was from Liverpool, so she opted to take elocution lessons. Took me years to tone it down in Bromley.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post:
  #78  
Old 10.05.2021, 20:20
lpuerto's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 93
Groaned at 13 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts
lpuerto has annoyed a few people around herelpuerto has annoyed a few people around herelpuerto has annoyed a few people around here
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
You are overthinking this. A lot. When the add says "mother tongue" did the Swiss who wrote this not at all differentiate between any of your terms... he used an online dictionary to find out what "Muttersprachler" is in English.

I just had a call where the customer basically complained that he has to speak standard German with me instead of his dialect... with me replying that I understand Swiss German... so yes, that's a big thing around here. Better get over it as you wont change the Swiss on that point.
The ad was in German and it said "Muttersprachler".
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 10.05.2021, 20:42
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,403
Groaned at 365 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 23,772 Times in 8,603 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
The ad was in German and it said "Muttersprachler".
The key bit missing in this discussion: for what job was the ad?

English is not my first language, so I simply accept that I will never be a Radio Host on the bbc... and I think it’s ok if the SRF does the same. If they were hiring a chef or a cleaner is it more debatable...
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 10.05.2021, 20:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 11,427
Groaned at 407 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 17,460 Times in 8,846 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: German as a mother tongue?

Quote:
View Post
The irony in all this is that probably is that the offer OP read was a low paid job. The higher you go in salary or more specialized the job, the less important the language skills. The perfect knowledge of local language is needed when you deal only with locals that only know 1 language which are low income on average. So, not a lot of money can be made from such customers.
This.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
discrimination, job ads, language




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Homeschooling - mother tongue languages, home country programs et al. MusicChick Education 0 27.02.2016 10:04
I am an au pair and I am forced to teach the kids my mother tongue fpcsstnjjk Employment 22 26.04.2015 21:56
MS Office 2007 in Foreign but want it in Mother Tongue? NotAllThere Other/general 2 25.04.2010 13:51
English (as Mother Tongue) Speech Therapist in Zurich and area? kalahari Girl Family matters/health 4 17.02.2009 10:20
Work in tourism Industry - Mother tongue = Spanish GUSI Employment 2 13.04.2007 10:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0