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  #41  
Old 12.05.2021, 00:43
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

Yes.

Think about RAV as your employer: if you register at 50%, you will have to look for a job at 50% and you will be paid at 50%.

Benefits will be calculated depending on the last 6 or 12 months salary (longer in case of matrrnity leave).

If I were OP friend, I would double check what option makes more sense based on salary, availability and cost of child care: going back to work or staying at home.
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  #42  
Old 12.05.2021, 05:01
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

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The poster is on here asking for advice having paid into this insurance system for 15 years. The tone of "RAV is not a personal babysitter" is unnecessary - this person's husband earns less than 4k per year and they have a baby to look after, it is already a difficult situation.

I don't understand where the compassion is nowadays. Bringing up a child is an exhausting process and for someone who has worked diligently throughout this long period there should be applause and an appetite to help, not cynical remarks about babysitting.
Maybe. But when you have a child you should know that you’ll either have to work and pay for child care (unless you’re lucky with grandparents) or someone will have to give up work. I’ve paid into RAV for many years too, but I don’t expect they’ll pay for me to stay at home and care for my dog (unfortunately).
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  #43  
Old 12.05.2021, 05:15
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

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... A former neighbor lost her 100% job and decided 50% would be better for her health long-term. RAV only paid benefits based on the 50% rate because she wasn't available to work 100%. She applied for a desk job but was instead offered a job as a cleaning lady at the same business. The company notified RAV of the job offer. She was basically forced to take the cleaning job because otherwise that would be refusal of a job and RAV wouldn't pay anything.
This example sounds rather extreme. What was her previous job?

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5. When is a job considered to be reasonable for me?

In principle you have to accept any work without delay. Work that is deemed to be unreasonable, and therefore excepted from this obligation to accept it, is one that:

.
.
.
  • does not satisfy your usual working conditions;
  • does not take due consideration of your skills and your previous line of work (this does not apply to persons under the age of 30);
  • hinders the reintegration in your own profession, assuming there is a chance of that happening within a reasonable amount of time;
Source: https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/...edien/faq.html
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  #44  
Old 12.05.2021, 08:04
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

I don't think there is a shortage of jobs for frontline medical workers. If she signs up for RAV then they'll ask her to apply for such roles.

If she doesn't apply they'll stop benefits.
If she does, but makes no effort, they follow up/find out they'll stop benefits.
If she does, and gets offered the job, but refuses, they'll stop benefits.
If she does takes the job, but it turns out to be a nightmare, leaves, they'll stop benefits.

You have one year to decide, when you sign up for RAV they look at your employment over the past two years. Look after the baby and look at ways you might be able to save money in the meantime.

Even if you paid into the system for 15 years, 1 year after you stop... your eligibility will be zero.

Do you have a car, maybe you could survive without it...get rid of it.
Do you [applies to both parents] smoke, stop.
Do you [applies to both parents] drink, stop.
Do you [applies to both parents] have a phone contract, cancel it, use pay as you go.
Where does husband work, could you move to somewhere cheaper, closer to his work, save money on transport/time.
Do you pay high charges on the place you live in, find somewhere cheaper.
Do you have any subscriptions you could do without, netflix?

Look at where your spending money, and find places you could cut back.
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  #45  
Old 12.05.2021, 08:17
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

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Maybe. But when you have a child you should know that you’ll either have to work and pay for child care (unless you’re lucky with grandparents) or someone will have to give up work. I’ve paid into RAV for many years too, but I don’t expect they’ll pay for me to stay at home and care for my dog (unfortunately).
Good example. Will your dog grow up to pay for your retirement through it taxes ?

We are not arguing the same point. As with the previous poster you are being completely binary - this is the law, see where you sit. I make the point that this is not good enough in these situations. If you don't care for children then you are setting yourself up for a fall later on as they grow. RAV should be flexible and work with parents with children, not deny them payment and point them at the notoriously difficult social services.

Using your above example that "if you have a child you know that you'll either have to work and pay for childcare... I don't expect RAV will pay for me to stay at home and care for my dog" is this the explanation you would give to someone who's salary providing partner had been killed in a car accident, leaving them without income ?

Or would you have a softer message perhaps.
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  #46  
Old 12.05.2021, 08:29
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

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Good example. Will your dog grow up to pay for your retirement through it taxes ?

We are not arguing the same point. As with the previous poster you are being completely binary - this is the law, see where you sit. I make the point that this is not good enough in these situations. If you don't care for children then you are setting yourself up for a fall later on as they grow. RAV should be flexible and work with parents with children, not deny them payment and point them at the notoriously difficult social services.
You make a good point Mikers, but wait is this what the poster is asking? Sadly many posts on EF seem to slow but surely go off subject. She has QUIT her job to look after the baby, can RAV help. In short no.

She needs to talk to Social Services, RAV are for a service for people who have LOST their jobs.
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  #47  
Old 12.05.2021, 08:39
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

I do understand that we all think we are entitled to benefits, and rightly so, but we shouldn't forget that unemployment is an insurance, and the purpose of this particular insurance is to help if you have lost your job.

Not if you are thinking of switching career.
Not (really) if you quit your job for whatever reason -> although RAV still helps you if you quit your job (if it should, it's another matter)
Not if you need financial help for your family.
Not if you want a free paid 2 years holiday (believe me, so many people think "I have paid into it, now I am just taking a paid vacation". If RAV paid out the same amount that people actually paid into, we would all receive a couple of salaries at most).

I don't agree with posters who wrote that RAV should be more understanding of family needs. Why? Why should RAV favour a particular category of people? Why not favour +50 years old? Or young people? Or women?

Again, RAV is there for one purpose and one purpose only. A parachute for when you lose your job, hoping you will never need said parachute. But if you do, it's there (and it's a quite generous one, compared to many other countries). They pay you a salary in exchange for a job: looking for work. They might or might not decide to you need to participate in whatever course might help you get employed faster. Or they will ask you to take any reasonable job that might get offered to you. Even if it's far (up to 2 hours), even if it's not what you used to do.

There are so many services and aids for financial needs, social services being one of them.

This being said, I really hope OP friend reaches out to social services. And checks in with RAV about how much her benefits would be if she signed up for 60%.
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  #48  
Old 12.05.2021, 08:43
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

[QUOTE=IslanderInTheMountains;3305155]This example sounds rather extreme. What was her previous job?

Difficult to say if it was extreme or not, it depends on a lot of factors (qualifications, previous role, age, work %, etc.).
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  #49  
Old 12.05.2021, 08:55
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

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I do understand that we all think we are entitled to benefits, and rightly so, but we shouldn't forget that unemployment is an insurance, and the purpose of this particular insurance is to help if you have lost your job.

Not if you are thinking of switching career.
Not (really) if you quit your job for whatever reason -> although RAV still helps you if you quit your job (if it should, it's another matter)
Not if you need financial help for your family.
Not if you want a free paid 2 years holiday (believe me, so many people think "I have paid into it, now I am just taking a paid vacation". If RAV paid out the same amount that people actually paid into, we would all receive a couple of salaries at most).

I don't agree with posters who wrote that RAV should be more understanding of family needs. Why? Why should RAV favour a particular category of people? Why not favour +50 years old? Or young people? Or women?

Again, RAV is there for one purpose and one purpose only. A parachute for when you lose your job, hoping you will never need said parachute. But if you do, it's there (and it's a quite generous one, compared to many other countries). They pay you a salary in exchange for a job: looking for work. They might or might not decide to you need to participate in whatever course might help you get employed faster. Or they will ask you to take any reasonable job that might get offered to you. Even if it's far (up to 2 hours), even if it's not what you used to do.

There are so many services and aids for financial needs, social services being one of them.

This being said, I really hope OP friend reaches out to social services. And checks in with RAV about how much her benefits would be if she signed up for 60%.
I agree this is a completely accurate summary of the rules. And RAV will apply the rules, regardless of the context, as they are written down, as is often the case in Switzerland on many topics. The discussion on that point isn't a logical one, its a case of opinion so i think we probably draw a line under it here.
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  #50  
Old 12.05.2021, 08:59
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

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RAV are for a service for people who have LOST their jobs.
Also of their own accord.

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She has QUIT her job to look after the baby, can RAV help. In short no YES.
FTFY.

Tom
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  #51  
Old 12.05.2021, 10:57
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

Thread is already derailed so...helping is a skill. You have to be open to vague and dumb questions. If the person asking for help could formulate the right question, it's quite probable the help would not be needed at all. Maybe asking about RAV is not the right question, so? Telling the person RAV is no the way to go does not solves anything. If RAV is not the solution, what are the alternatives?

It's a bit like helping someone drowning: the person will not cooperate. But that doesn't mean you'll let the person drown.

Back to topic, there's also family allowances depending on the canton https://www.ch.ch/en/family-allowances/
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  #52  
Old 12.05.2021, 11:23
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

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Thread is already derailed so...helping is a skill. You have to be open to vague and dumb questions. If the person asking for help could formulate the right question, it's quite probable the help would not be needed at all. Maybe asking about RAV is not the right question, so? Telling the person RAV is no the way to go does not solves anything. If RAV is not the solution, what are the alternatives?

It's a bit like helping someone drowning: the person will not cooperate. But that doesn't mean you'll let the person drown.

Back to topic, there's also family allowances depending on the canton https://www.ch.ch/en/family-allowances/
To be fair, several links have been provided and social services have been mentioned over and over. These services are provided by the city/village of residence of OP friend.

OP friend (well, her husband) should already receive family allowances, but they might be entitled to more help depending on their Canton.

It would be useful to get a follow up from OP once this is over as it might help others in the same situation.
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  #53  
Old 14.05.2021, 15:23
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

first of all thank you all very much for your constructive and critical inputs. The answer to the question asked is clear, No RAV won't help you to look after your baby. However as already stated my friend is open to work from 40% to 60% but its now also clear that RAV still wouldn't help if the reason for quitting previous job is related to what was written by markalex and sinking, in fact we got this confirmed from the RAV consultant .

As I wrote already my friends are naturalised Swiss and speak Swiss German. They have never been on benefits and don't intend to ask for social help, that would be their last resort. It's just the situation they are in their life right now that makes them search for other possibilities. They live a minimalistic life anyway but thanks for the inputs to reduce unnecessary expenses. The good news is they have successfully managed to find an affordable baby day care.

Finally regarding the judgemental posts, I must admit I wasn't surprised nor did I take it personally. But it just got me wondering about something, as some of you wrote, if RAV is only intended for people who lost their job then what is your opinion of people who do contract IT / consultant kind of jobs and intentionally choose the next contract few months after (even though there is a new contract opportunity available immediately) and during those unemployed months withdraw money from RAV?

Also, a completely unrelated topic, this news about a recent murder of a man in Zurich. sadly I knew him, great guy doing a great job and well established in this country. Even if we all live in this fairytale land, You just don't know when bad luck will strike you and what consequences that could leave for your family.

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/nach-mo...t-323997037635

Funny enough, before I moved to this country I spent a fair amount of time in the UK and USA and thanks to the small bubble I lived in back there, a neighbourhood with highly skilled workers expats + wealthy locals, I also got into thinking that I was in a fairytale land but only after I got out of there i could see whats real and whats not. But yeah I was just another naive foreigner (even now).
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  #54  
Old 14.05.2021, 16:24
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

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What you are saying is that we need overpopulation to keep an overpopulated and destructive system alive. The same logic as in a pyramid scheme.
Sad maybe, but true.

The only way out is for productivity to increase so fewer people can create more wealth. After all, it's not really about how many people contribute but about how much they contribute cumulatively.

If low payed jobs are replaced by robots, average and median wages rise automatically. But the question is how long you can keep doing that.
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  #55  
Old 14.05.2021, 16:47
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Re: Quit job to take care of baby. Can RAV help?

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Yes, we contributors to RAV should pay for her to have a child, because the world needs more people after all ...
We aren't going to have much equality for women with that attitude. A lot of mothers want part time work. Feminism is about choice remember?
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