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  #21  
Old 10.06.2021, 15:29
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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It's really important to achieve this during your probation period because later you'll certainly have to put all your efforts to urgent workload and your career will never start.
Anyone joining my team wouldn't pass their ~90 day probation period if during that time they didn't put a very large part of their effort into urgent workload.

I completely agree that building network and relationships is important, but showing you're worth your salary on actual deliverables is a better focus in the first few months.
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  #22  
Old 10.06.2021, 16:24
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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there is also another issue - i don't know exactly how it works, but it has something to do with either the social insurance or accident insurance or something like that... and you can't be covered by two different employers...

Let's say you have an accident, for example. Which accident insurance covers you?
I also read/heard about this issue. Anyone here with definitive knowledge?
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Old 10.06.2021, 17:04
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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I also read/heard about this issue. Anyone here with definitive knowledge?

If you have an accident (or other events) depending on your benefits your work insurance will cover you. This is also during holiday period and its why sometimes for some of us in IT it is not possible to work from an other country eventhough our jobs can be fully virtual, but the insurance contract is not.


If you need to leverage this - which employers insurance are you leveraging?


Honestly Bokabil, what you are considering here is potentially fraud. It is just not worth it.


My 2c.
  #24  
Old 10.06.2021, 17:37
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

You don't need to tell your old employee anything. And what you do in your holiday time is up to you. So say nothing, get your holiday paid which you are fully entitled to and your shares as per your contract. There is nothing illegal in this at all.

If I was your new employer, I would not compensate you for any loss of shares, and I doubt that he will, so don't even bother asking, it may just put you in a bad light before you even start!
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Old 10.06.2021, 17:40
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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Of course, current company will look out for what is best for them and this means avoid paying me if they can. So any benefits I lose will need to be compensated by the new company. They are the one who want me earlier so it is only right that they pay up. Whatever new company come up with, I just want to make sure that it is legal as I don't want to end up a criminal.
Excellent approach!
The way you treat your old employer now is the way the new employer will have to assume to be treated themselves later on.

It wouldn't hurt if your flexibility earned you some kind of goodie, an individual bonus.
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Per swiss code of obligations, all IP created during your employment belongs to your "old" employer (certain exceptions apply, but lets keep is simple here).
The fact that today's employment contracts tend to contain clauses giving the employer IP rights indicates that your claim is false. Got some reliable source to back it up?
But yes, this aspect could cause problems if OP's contract contains relevant wording.
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Let's say you have an accident, for example. Which accident insurance covers you?
That shouldn't matter because the insurance company is the same, they merely collect premium twice for august.

AHV premiums paid may be an issue, not sure if they can be checked later on by an ex-employer. But either way that doesn't matter as OP won't play games (kudos).
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  #26  
Old 10.06.2021, 17:51
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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That shouldn't matter because the insurance company is the same, they merely collect premium twice for august.
The two employers may possibly have insured their accident risk with different insurance companies, or not. Even if they had chosen the same insurer, if there were an accident they would still be potentially set to do a thorough investigation of which employer's policy is being used.

OP, just don't try to have two employers at once, unless they have both given you permission, in writing.
  #27  
Old 10.06.2021, 19:05
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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You don't need to tell your old employee anything. And what you do in your holiday time is up to you. So say nothing, get your holiday paid which you are fully entitled to and your shares as per your contract. There is nothing illegal in this at all.

If I was your new employer, I would not compensate you for any loss of shares, and I doubt that he will, so don't even bother asking, it may just put you in a bad light before you even start!
Actually, you are obliged by law to tell them ... it would be illegal (in the sense of violating the employment contract) to work for another company without your employer's agreement. This is part of the Code of Obligations legislation for employment contracts.
  #28  
Old 10.06.2021, 20:54
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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Nonsense. The current employer cannot change the already agreed terms of separation. They can only change by mutual consent. I think you missed the fact that the OP has already given notice.
I think you missed the fact that the OP wants to work another job while still employed with his existing employer (which often is prohibited) or wants to cut his notice period short.
  #29  
Old 10.06.2021, 20:57
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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Do NOT do that. Very very bad advise. You could get in serious trouble!

Per swiss code of obligations, all IP created during your employment belongs to your "old" employer (certain exceptions apply, but lets keep is simple here). Your new employer would not be so happy if your "old" employer make a claim on the IP of your work results at your "new" employer.
You must treat companies with utter contempt, because that is how they treat employees. Don't be fooled by all the BS rhetoric about how people come first.
  #30  
Old 10.06.2021, 21:40
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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Do NOT do that. Very very bad advise. You could get in serious trouble!

Per swiss code of obligations, all IP created during your employment belongs to your "old" employer (certain exceptions apply, but lets keep is simple here). Your new employer would not be so happy if your "old" employer make a claim on the IP of your work results at your "new" employer.
Oh dear do we have another patent attorney on here? (Guessing by the content of your Post and the "EP" Portion of your usernane).

I agree that's potentially a problem - but only if they are in a profession where there is a realistic chance of creating IP (and even then it would be essentially impossible for the former employer to know it was created during the crossover period and even then (if Swiss law is the same as British) they'd have to demonstrate it was made during the course of the employees normal duties - very hard if they are no longer attending work. Real world the risk is low imho.
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  #31  
Old 10.06.2021, 21:42
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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Excellent approach!

The fact that today's employment contracts tend to contain clauses giving the employer IP rights indicates that your claim is false. Got some reliable source to back it up?
The contractual term is merely confirmatory. IP created by an employee during the course of their duties belongs to the employer essentially everywhere.
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Old 10.06.2021, 22:04
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

Thank you all for sharing your wisdom!

I will make sure that my contracts don't overlap. I don't want to commit fraud and have issues with AHV, insurance, or get into breach of contract sh*t.

First option is of course status-quo. I will start 1-Sep according to the new contract I already signed. If new company insist on 1-Aug then I will negotiate:
(a) holidays -> cash or credit as holiday
(b) shares -> cash or equivalent shares
I will shoot for 100% but I'm willing to negotiate.

Once I get this into writing then I will talk to current company and ask them to release me earlier. They don't need to pay me for Aug and I forfeit the shares. Its a win-win for them so I'm confident they will agree.
  #33  
Old 11.06.2021, 00:30
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

I am in a similar position but looking to work for a company outside of Switzerland and being paid outside Switzerland

My question is whether I can start the new job whilst on garden leave / notice? Will they come out and if they did what would be the consequences ?
  #34  
Old 11.06.2021, 03:01
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

There are several posts in this thread, above yours, advising against doing what you are asking about, and setting out the reasons.
  #35  
Old 11.06.2021, 09:13
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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Actually, you are obliged by law to tell them ... it would be illegal (in the sense of violating the employment contract) to work for another company without your employer's agreement. This is part of the Code of Obligations legislation for employment contracts.
Which part of CO are you referring to?

There is a "duty of loyalty" clause, which includes this:

"For the duration of the employment relationship the employee must not perform any paid work for third parties in breach of his duty of loyalty, in particular if such work is in competition with his employer."

But that doesn't exclude working for another employer, or require you to inform your current employer, as long as you are not impacting their rights.

A typical case where it is allowed would be working X% for one company, Y% for another (non-competing), where X + Y <= 100% (of normal working hours).

However in this specific case it IMO it would breach that clause - working for two employers literally at the same time means you are not delivering the agreed effort for at least one of them.
  #36  
Old 11.06.2021, 11:20
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

How can this be correct when you have many people who work 100% and then have board memberships and teaching memberships.

Frankly I think you are mistaken. There is no ability to restrict working somewhere else as long as it does not interfere with your Day job

I asked about working within notice period and whilst on garden leave and I think it’s fine. Anyway how will they even know and if they did find out I can always claim it did not affect my employment contract
  #37  
Old 11.06.2021, 17:37
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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The contractual term is merely confirmatory. IP created by an employee during the course of their duties belongs to the employer essentially everywhere.
AFAIK that is limited to work hours (which may be difficult to identify with WFH). In my (admittedly vvery limited) experience, the job contract will broaden the scope to non-work hours.
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  #38  
Old 11.06.2021, 20:15
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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Frankly I think you are mistaken. There is no ability to restrict working somewhere else as long as it does not interfere with your Day job.
Of course there is - employment contracts can and frequently do place limitations on other work you may have, for reasons of competition, conflicting interests and also duty of care from the employer.

Ours clearly state that any other work must be declared and obviously must not be in conflict with our company. We also have to check that the number of hours worked overall are not in breach of the law.
  #39  
Old 11.06.2021, 22:37
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

Damn straight. You owe the company nothing, you are of no consequence to them when they want to cut costs, downsize, etc and your previously loyalty will mean nothing to them. Pursue all you're entitled to and never feel bad for the company, you will always be a replaceable number on the books.
  #40  
Old 11.06.2021, 22:44
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Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract

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I think you missed the fact that the OP wants to work another job while still employed with his existing employer (which often is prohibited) or wants to cut his notice period short.
Actually in this position right now Will be a month overlap between my current job and new job in August. Plan is to do absolute minimum in current job for a month while working in new job. Legally, yeah could be a consequence but really?
 




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