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-   -   New employer wants me to start before end of current contract (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/304514-new-employer-wants-me-start-before-end-current-contract.html)

bokabil 09.06.2021 14:13

New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
I gave notice in my current company. Per contract, my notice period is until 31-Aug. Because of unused holidays, etc, I am told that mid-July is my last day and I don't need to come back.

New company would like me to start 1-Aug (ok, next day since its holiday), since I will work on an urgent project. New company knows that 31-Aug is the end of my current contract. I have shares vesting in Aug, hence I planned my notice to end 31-Aug. I am willing to start 1-Aug as long as it can be done legally and I get compensated for the shares I lose.

What do you propose should be my "opening statement" to the new company?
Thanks.

roegner 09.06.2021 14:36

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Ask your current company. Had the same and we agreed that I could start earlier with the new company.

bokabil 09.06.2021 14:43

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3315465)
Ask your current company. Had the same and we agreed that I could start earlier with the new company.

I haven't asked, but I'm almost sure my current company is willing to let me go by 31-Jul... it will save them a month of my salary, so win-win for them.

What I want to ask, what reasonable offer should the new company offer me for starting 1-Aug and me losing shares and "holidays" in the process.

Mica 09.06.2021 15:22

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
One idea:
- Offer your current employer that they can save one month of your salary and in return you keep the shares (if that is possible);
- Ask your new employer to (i) pay out your holiday salary, or (ii) agree that in future you will have one more month of paid holiday.

newtoswitz 09.06.2021 19:44

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bokabil (Post 3315468)
I haven't asked, but I'm almost sure my current company is willing to let me go by 31-Jul... it will save them a month of my salary, so win-win for them.

What I want to ask, what reasonable offer should the new company offer me for starting 1-Aug and me losing shares and "holidays" in the process.

You won't lose any holidays - one month less at old place, one month more at new place. If you mean the garden leave then that's different.

If I was hiring you, the answer would be "nothing, and I'm a bit annoyed you want to start your employment on this basis".

komsomolez 09.06.2021 19:50

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Exactly, try to keep the shares, old employer still saves money. You cannot really ask for anything from the new company except for one month worth of salary.

If I were you, I would take time off, collect your shares, and start 1 Sept as per contract.

shalom 09.06.2021 23:50

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3315465)
Ask your current company. Had the same and we agreed that I could start earlier with the new company.

Nonsense. Your current company is not looking out for your best interest.

Give notice to your company and let your shares vest.

Start with your new company during your vacation (and wait with updating linkedin until AFTER you have ended your employment with your current company).

That way you will get everything you have earned.

Keep in mind, companies also hire new people and then get rid of an incumbent by sending him/her on garden leave. Treat them the same way.

doropfiz 10.06.2021 00:28

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Roegner's post clearly isn't nonsense given that she was reporting what had already worked for her, her previous and her new employer.

shalom 10.06.2021 00:37

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3315610)
Roegner's post clearly isn't nonsense when she was reporting what had already worked for her, her previous and her new employer.

If you go to your current employer, you risk losing $$$ while there is no need to take that risk. So, yes, nonsense.

Gravity 10.06.2021 02:15

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bokabil (Post 3315461)
New company would like me to start 1-Aug (ok, next day since its holiday), since I will work on an urgent project.

That's sounds a bit stressing, isn't it? Do you really want to start in a new place working on an urgent project? (-`).。oO( ... ) Think about it twice!
Unless you have some masochistic traits you rather wish to start as easy as possible. Perhaps you can't dodge it so at least enjoy your time and recharge before the unavoidable.

NotAllThere 10.06.2021 07:50

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shalom (Post 3315612)
If you go to your current employer, you risk losing $$$ while there is no need to take that risk. So, yes, nonsense.

Nonsense. The current employer cannot change the already agreed terms of separation. They can only change by mutual consent. I think you missed the fact that the OP has already given notice.

jjake 10.06.2021 08:14

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shalom (Post 3315607)
Nonsense. Your current company is not looking out for your best interest.

Give notice to your company and let your shares vest.

Start with your new company during your vacation (and wait with updating linkedin until AFTER you have ended your employment with your current company).

That way you will get everything you have earned.

Keep in mind, companies also hire new people and then get rid of an incumbent by sending him/her on garden leave. Treat them the same way.

As you are already in your notice period, you can potentially get away with starting with the new company during your 'vacation'.
BUT: From contract perspective, however, you may be violating contracts of both companies, if the contracts require that you do not work for another employer without their agreement.
This should not be a problem with the new employer but I would still ask them to acknowledge it in writing, otherwise you could be in breach of the new contract.
Additional complexity happens in case your old and new employers are competitors. In such case, it is for sure a legal issue.
Finally, regarding the shares, it depends on the plan rules. Many companies have a rule that states that if you start working for a competitor (which would usually be listed in the plan rules or so), you immediately forfeit any unvested shares. Plan rules also usually do not allow for an earlier vesting unless there is a special reason (i.e., retirement, disability or death).
I would doubt your current employer would override that as this would be precedent setting (unless they already had precedents :))

If you want to do it correctly, you'd need (written) agreement from both employers. From the first one to start working for the new company during your notice period/vacation. From the new one acknowledging that you are still employed with the old company until the end of August. Not sure both would agree ;)

newtoswitz 10.06.2021 11:06

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravity (Post 3315618)
TDo you really want to start in a new place working on an urgent project?

On the whole I would say yes you do, it's a lot better for job security and long term opportunities than starting work on a project nobody really cares about.

bokabil 10.06.2021 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mica (Post 3315476)
One idea:
- Offer your current employer that they can save one month of your salary and in return you keep the shares (if that is possible);
- Ask your new employer to (i) pay out your holiday salary, or (ii) agree that in future you will have one more month of paid holiday.

Thanks! I think its a reasonable compromise between current and new employer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 3315528)
You won't lose any holidays - one month less at old place, one month more at new place. If you mean the garden leave then that's different.

If I was hiring you, the answer would be "nothing, and I'm a bit annoyed you want to start your employment on this basis".

The days from mid-July to Aug are the holidays with my current employer. I am not on garden leave at this time. I am not on-call nor will I need to go back. So if start 1-Aug, I lose these days unless compensated in some way.

If you read my first post, it is my new employer who wants me to start earlier. I am perfectly happy to start 1-Sep and enjoy my off. I am all for compromise and told them I'm willing to start 1-Aug but I don't want to be a pushover either and just lose the benefits that I've earned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3315531)
Exactly, try to keep the shares, old employer still saves money. You cannot really ask for anything from the new company except for one month worth of salary.

If I were you, I would take time off, collect your shares, and start 1 Sept as per contract.

Exactly, I would gladly start 1-Sep and enjoy... 1-Sep is the contract I signed with the new employer. When I told them my last day with current employer, then they popped up the idea if I could start earlier. And here we are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalom (Post 3315607)
Nonsense. Your current company is not looking out for your best interest.

Give notice to your company and let your shares vest.

Start with your new company during your vacation (and wait with updating linkedin until AFTER you have ended your employment with your current company).

That way you will get everything you have earned.

Keep in mind, companies also hire new people and then get rid of an incumbent by sending him/her on garden leave. Treat them the same way.

Of course, current company will look out for what is best for them and this means avoid paying me if they can. So any benefits I lose will need to be compensated by the new company. They are the one who want me earlier so it is only right that they pay up. Whatever new company come up with, I just want to make sure that it is legal as I don't want to end up a criminal.

bokabil 10.06.2021 12:04

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravity (Post 3315618)
That's sounds a bit stressing, isn't it? Do you really want to start in a new place working on an urgent project? (-`).。oO( ... ) Think about it twice!
Unless you have some masochistic traits you rather wish to start as easy as possible. Perhaps you can't dodge it so at least enjoy your time and recharge before the unavoidable.

I have no worry about what I need to do, it is really more timing and so on.
I also have 2 weeks in July to relax if I start Aug. And I can also wrap up things here in my current company by end of June.

irish_marmot 10.06.2021 12:06

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bokabil (Post 3315461)
I gave notice in my current company. Per contract, my notice period is until 31-Aug. Because of unused holidays, etc, I am told that mid-July is my last day and I don't need to come back.

New company would like me to start 1-Aug (ok, next day since its holiday), since I will work on an urgent project. New company knows that 31-Aug is the end of my current contract. I have shares vesting in Aug, hence I planned my notice to end 31-Aug. I am willing to start 1-Aug as long as it can be done legally and I get compensated for the shares I lose.

What do you propose should be my "opening statement" to the new company?
Thanks.




I think you should tell your new company that you are available on Sept 1.

Thinking about it critically



- I have never been involved in an IT project that wasnt urgent. Everything is urgent in some companies. This potentially is like that, you are setting a precedent here that your time (weekends, vacation, evening, contracted time to another org) can be manipulated.


- You have a contract to company 1 till the end of August. Its a violation of trust for you to break it or work around it. Company 2 should not be encouraging this.


I appreciate you want to start off in a productive helpful manner, and that is admirable. I would recommend however setting some boundaries here.


Best of luck.

bokabil 10.06.2021 12:13

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jjake (Post 3315641)
As you are already in your notice period, you can potentially get away with starting with the new company during your 'vacation'.
BUT: From contract perspective, however, you may be violating contracts of both companies, if the contracts require that you do not work for another employer without their agreement.
This should not be a problem with the new employer but I would still ask them to acknowledge it in writing, otherwise you could be in breach of the new contract.
Additional complexity happens in case your old and new employers are competitors. In such case, it is for sure a legal issue.
Finally, regarding the shares, it depends on the plan rules. Many companies have a rule that states that if you start working for a competitor (which would usually be listed in the plan rules or so), you immediately forfeit any unvested shares. Plan rules also usually do not allow for an earlier vesting unless there is a special reason (i.e., retirement, disability or death).
I would doubt your current employer would override that as this would be precedent setting (unless they already had precedents :))

If you want to do it correctly, you'd need (written) agreement from both employers. From the first one to start working for the new company during your notice period/vacation. From the new one acknowledging that you are still employed with the old company until the end of August. Not sure both would agree ;)

"get away" is what I don't like, because if it is illegal, I'm sure it will catch up with me.
Both contracts disallow me to have another employer without consent. Good point about asking new employer in writing.
Employers are not competitors.
Share plan is simple, I just need to be employed with the company on the vesting date.
Yes, it is clear that I need written agreement from both. I think I can pull this off. It is also clear to me that current employer will not pay any dime more than they need. If I want to get compensated, I should work this out with the new employer.

jazh 10.06.2021 12:29

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
there is also another issue - i don't know exactly how it works, but it has something to do with either the social insurance or accident insurance or something like that... and you can't be covered by two different employers...

Let's say you have an accident, for example. Which accident insurance covers you?

EPMike 10.06.2021 13:39

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shalom (Post 3315607)
Nonsense. Your current company is not looking out for your best interest.

Give notice to your company and let your shares vest.

Start with your new company during your vacation (and wait with updating linkedin until AFTER you have ended your employment with your current company).

That way you will get everything you have earned.

Keep in mind, companies also hire new people and then get rid of an incumbent by sending him/her on garden leave. Treat them the same way.

:msnmad::msnmad::msnmad:

Do NOT do that. Very very bad advise. You could get in serious trouble!

Per swiss code of obligations, all IP created during your employment belongs to your "old" employer (certain exceptions apply, but lets keep is simple here). Your new employer would not be so happy if your "old" employer make a claim on the IP of your work results at your "new" employer.

Gravity 10.06.2021 14:56

Re: New employer wants me to start before end of current contract
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 3315708)
On the whole I would say yes you do, it's a lot better for job security and long term opportunities than starting work on a project nobody really cares about.

Important project vs urgent project could be a very different thing. I hope for the OP that the project is urgent and important ;-)

But anyway, unless you are a contractor the first 90 days are for you to build connections: build deeper understanding of the organization, the business around the products, build network, learn how to gossip with many individuals so they start sharing and keeping you informed about everything even if you are in the group of/level of the un-worthy to be well informed, etc. It's really important to achieve this during your probation period because later you'll certainly have to put all your efforts to urgent workload and your career will never start. If you're find with that than yes, but why not look for contracting which is better paid?


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