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-   -   Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept? (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/304700-zwischenverdienst-i-am-obliged-accept.html)

brightstar 21.06.2021 19:03

Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Hello,


I got offered a position (Zwischenverdienst) in a 3-week project. I am wondering if I am forced to take this temporary employment in case the salary is compatible with what I had in the past.

Or is my duty to accept jobs only related to permanent and longer term positions?


Many thanks in advance.

fatmanfilms 21.06.2021 19:10

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brightstar (Post 3320013)
Hello,


I got offered a position (Zwischenverdienst) in a 3-week project. I am wondering if I am forced to take this temporary employment in case the salary is compatible with what I had in the past.

Or is my duty to accept jobs only related to permanent and longer term positions?


Many thanks in advance.

It's in your interest to take it as you are building up a new rahenbfrist, I had 4 rahemnfrists over 9 years due to Zwischenverdienst, my final insured salary was far higher than 12 months earnings due to the way they calculated it :D

Mullhollander 22.06.2021 08:34

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
SRF says this (translated):

"A job may only be rejected in exceptional cases

RAV job centers have a certain amount of discretion when assessing specific situations. Whether the "Espresso" listener from Lucerne can be expected, as an accountant, to work at a cash register therefore depends on the exact circumstances and on the assessment of his adviser. The job seeker should therefore definitely seek further discussion with the adviser.

The job seeker may have other reasons for not working at a cash register. There are other cases in which the unemployed may refuse to accept a job. For example:

  • If the job does not meet the usual working conditions. This is the case, for example, if the wage is below the minimum prescribed in a collective labor agreement or if the work is not reasonable for health reasons.
  • If the work cannot be reconciled with the applicant's personal circumstances. For example, a single mother cannot be expected to commute several hours or to work irregular shifts.
  • If a job would make it difficult for the applicant to return to his or her original profession. However, this principle only applies if there is a realistic chance of finding a job in the original profession again in the foreseeable future.
  • A job may be refused if the salary is lower than 70% of the insured earnings (unless the insured person receives compensation payments)."
https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/kassens...em-job-zwingen

Good luck with your job search!

Island Monkey 22.06.2021 08:58

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
I assume you’re on RAV? Maybe the 3 week project would lead to a permanent job - you never know!

bowlie 22.06.2021 09:33

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
It may also lead to other unforeseen benefits, contacts, recommendation letters, a new soul partner.

I know quite a few people who came to Geneva with two week contracts and are still here after 20+ years.

curley 22.06.2021 12:32

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
I loved those Zwischenverdienst-Jobs, giving me glimpses into work-areas (and groups of people) I would never have had the chance to join, had I applied for a job there.
I love visiting "different worlds" and they served them to me on a silver platter. :D

And of course you benefit from being supported longer, you never know if you need that.

doropfiz 22.06.2021 12:39

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
I also know people who found a real job through having taken on a Zwischenverdienst job. Not through that employer, but because they told everyone at the Zwischenverdienst place what kind of work that they were looking for, and in the meantime worked with diligence and cheer, so that everyone there wanted to spread the word. Someone knew someone who knew someone... that's the way that many jobs are filled.

Besides that, you might be able to use the Zwischenverdienst job as a language school, practicing every day, reading, writing, speaking, comprehension, either in the local Swiss language (if you don't already have a good command of it) or else in any other language that your temporary colleagues speak.

doropfiz 22.06.2021 23:09

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3320015)
It's in your interest to take it as you are building up a new rahenbfrist, I had 4 rahemnfrists over 9 years due to Zwischenverdienst, my final insured salary was far higher than 12 months earnings due to the way they calculated it :D

The Rahmenfrist, and the way it and the relevant salary levels are calculated, seems to be one of the hardest calculations to grasp, for any newcomer to being on unemployment benefits in Switzerland.

OP, it is in your interests to find out and to be sure that understand how this works. There are probably other threads on this forum explaining it, or else ask your advisor how it works.

blackbird 22.06.2021 23:46

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
I am on Zwischenverdienst aswell,i got more Money,
The RAV ist satisfied, winwin .
IT IS not easy These days, looking for a Job , when you are over 50 years old and hold No diploma.

jacek 22.06.2021 23:57

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
The interim employment (Zwischenverdienst) is the way to go satisfying ideal work life balance after 40’s. I only hated the paperwork at the end of each month to be sent through. Other than that, building new Rahmenfrist and prolonging one’s unemployment insurance is the wise way to go. Of course, permanent job until retirement age would be the most ideal solution but given that job market and post pandemic reality is tough, one has to protect oneself.

Even when one is well qualified (like myself), once you close to it or hit the magic age of 50, the companies don’t want to pay higher pension fund contributions to their employees and they prefer hiring young stuff instead. Gotta be smart and learn how to play survival games towards an early retirement.

fatmanfilms 23.06.2021 07:34

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3320463)
The Rahmenfrist, and the way it and the relevant salary levels are calculated, seems to be one of the hardest calculations to grasp, for any newcomer to being on unemployment benefits in Switzerland.

OP, it is in your interests to find out and to be sure that understand how this works. There are probably other threads on this forum explaining it, or else ask your advisor how it works.

The advisor will likely be wrong as indeed was the case of the intro course.
If the earnings are below the insured amount each month then 70/80% top up will occur. This means that 1 hour of overtime could easily cost 3000 in lost payout that month! With calculations done after the event I ended having about 5000 'withdrawn' 6 months after the event due do earning a couple of hundred extra twice.

KevinD 23.06.2021 17:39

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Hi all,

I hope you don't mind a related question.

If you are paid consulting fees for work performed while unemployed, do you indicate the gross fee received? Or the net after taxes and other deductions?

My RAV consultant did not know the answer.

For the record, the fee was for a few hours of freelance work. The amount was a lot under the monthly payment from the ALK.

Thanks!

fatmanfilms 23.06.2021 17:52

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinD (Post 3320698)
Hi all,

I hope you don't mind a related question.

If you are paid consulting fees for work performed while unemployed, do you indicate the gross fee received? Or the net after taxes and other deductions?

My RAV consultant did not know the answer.

For the record, the fee was for a few hours of freelance work. The amount was a lot under the monthly payment from the ALK.

Thanks!

Gross however if as self employed deduct 20%

doropfiz 23.06.2021 18:05

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3320488)
The advisor will likely be wrong as indeed was the case of the intro course.
If the earnings are below the insured amount each month then 70/80% top up will occur. This means that 1 hour of overtime could easily cost 3000 in lost payout that month! With calculations done after the event I ended having about 5000 'withdrawn' 6 months after the event due do earning a couple of hundred extra twice.

You set out the result. Would you please set out the method, too, so that others can get it right, as well? Thank you. I mean please would explain the whole matter of extending a Rahmenfrist, and what that even means, and how "overtime" and "Zwischenverdienst" work to one's advantage or disadvantage. Thank you.

fatmanfilms 23.06.2021 18:26

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3320713)
You set out the result. Would you please set out the method, too, so that others can get it right, as well? Thank you. I mean please would explain the whole matter of extending a Rahmenfrist, and what that even means, and how "overtime" and "Zwischenverdienst" work to one's advantage or disadvantage. Thank you.

RAV advisors will talk about 'days' however whats important is 'money' that then gets turned into days worked. If you have no children & earn 70% the calculation will assume you worked 100% that month & no additional payment payment will be made.

If you earn 68% then you will get a top up of 22.4% so your earnings that month will be 90.4% of your previous pay, clearly much better than the 70% the insurance would pay out. On paper you will have worked between 15-16 days that week. I had a high day rate so so might work 4-5 days to get credit for 15/16 days.

A 2 year rahemnfrist has about 518 working days & most people will get 400 paid days, so by doing some part time work the payments could last the full 2 years.

At the end of the Rahemnfrist, if you have done enough 'theoretical days' i.e at least 12 months work in 24 months you will get a new Rahemnfrist.

There is another 'complication' if you work just a few weeks, the pay includes 8.33% holiday pay so it's the actual pay excluding holiday pay that is used in the calculations.

In my first calculation 68% + 22.4% + 8.33% = 98.73% of previous pay :D

If you get a new Rahemnfrist the new insured salary is based on the better of average last 12 months salary or average of last 6 months salary. With my final rahemnfrist, my last 6 months earnings was about 90% of my 12 months earnings, so my new insured salary was actually 126% of my last years earnings! Although payout is limited per month, earnings per month is not so one huge month of say 25k will skew the payout to your advantage, I had a couple of very big months.

Certain professions, musicians, actors, theatre & TV workers will have the days doubled for the first month of a contract when calculating the 12 months in 24 months. When I applied for my final jackpot rahemnfrist I was told I dad not done enough days by both my advisor & the kasse. I told them I was submitting my application & I believed they were incorrect :D

Edit

There were also some improvements for 'COVID', I don't know the full implications except the payout days were extended.

doropfiz 23.06.2021 18:38

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Thank you for all those explanations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3320724)
If you get a new Rahemnfrist the new insured salary is based on the better of average last 12 months salary or average of last 6 months salary. With my final rahemnfrist, my last 6 months earnings was about 90% of my 12 months earnings, so my new insured salary was actually 126% of my last years earnings! Although payout is limited per month, earnings per month is not so one huge month of say 25k will skew the payout to your advantage, I had a couple of very big months.

Presumably, then, if you earn at all - whether by taking on a Zwischenverdienst or a real job - within the first Rahmenfrist, but are paid less than what you used to earn before first having become unemployed, the unemployment payments for any new Rahmenfrist will likewise be calculated based upon those lower earnings.

Isn't there a top-up, for having at least tried to be less unemployed, at least for a while? And if so, could you please set out how that is then calculated?

st2lemans 23.06.2021 18:42

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3320730)
Isn't there a top-up, for having at least tried to be less unemployed, at least for a while? And if so, could you please set out how that is then calculated?

70 (or 80, if you have kids) % of the difference between your new pay, and your old pay, for the duration of the rahmenfrist.

Pro-rated if less than 100%.

Simple.

Tom

fatmanfilms 23.06.2021 18:45

Re: Zwischenverdienst - I am obliged to accept?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3320730)
Thank you for all those explanations.



Presumably, then, if you earn at all - whether by taking on a Zwischenverdienst or a real job - within the first Rahmenfrist, but are paid less than what you used to earn before first having become unemployed, the unemployment payments for any new Rahmenfrist will likewise be calculated based upon those lower earnings.

Isn't there a top-up, for having at least tried to be less unemployed, at least for a while? And if so, could you please set out how that is then calculated?

You are correct, that it is likely that future rahemnfrists are with a lower salary unless you are lucky with earnings during the last 6 months.

I believe that the 400 days just last longer, no actual top up to my knowledge other than my first example of earning 68%


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