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  #21  
Old 28.06.2021, 00:35
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Its a question because it presupposes that the RAV will pay and they are not going to give too much hassle - If the RAV end up being work masters then the UK job is better

If the RAV are going to make you do a few applications a month then the RAV is of course better

Secondly I do wish to stay in Switzerland but i can move if I need to which is why this question came up - I am tending towards the RAV option but I do wonder if it is morally right but also as easy as it is made out to be here
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  #22  
Old 28.06.2021, 01:19
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

No brainer to dwell on it any further. Take the RAV option that you are entitled to via contributing to the insurance over the years. It’s not like intentionally you lost the job and are here to burden the system, as some may insinuate. Many people were not fortunate enough to be always employed and vulnerable at some point of time, myself included, and hence there is this great system to protect one from loss of income. At some point you will find the job again and most importantly realize your plan of staying in Switzerland, if that’s what you want indeed. Good luck with your decisions.
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  #23  
Old 28.06.2021, 09:45
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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Its a question because it presupposes that the RAV will pay and they are not going to give too much hassle - If the RAV end up being work masters then the UK job is better

If the RAV are going to make you do a few applications a month then the RAV is of course better

Secondly I do wish to stay in Switzerland but i can move if I need to which is why this question came up - I am tending towards the RAV option but I do wonder if it is morally right but also as easy as it is made out to be here
They typically expect you to write 10 to 12 applications each month (may be less if you are in a really specific field that doesn't have many jobs on offer) which must be documented using their forms and this form has to be sent in by a certain date. Miss the date or fail to complete the correct number of applications and you will be sanctioned. You have to be available to interview within 24 hours' notice, so you have to ask for permission before going on holiday; they have been known to call you to check up on you, even if there isn't an interview available. Any suitable job that is within a two hour commute is considered reasonable for you to take, if you don't, there are sanctions.

I'm not sure who gave you the impression that being registered with RAV is easy, because it really isn't. Their attitude is that while you are being paid by them, your job is to work to become employed again, with the corresponding amount of effort going into it.
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  #24  
Old 28.06.2021, 09:48
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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I have been terminated from my Swiss job in Zurich and my last payment date is in September

I am on a permit b and have been here for four years and half

I had planned to sign the rav and take my time to find a new job in Switzerland but a job has suddenly been offered in the Uk through a friend and the salary after tax is 5kgbp which is 6k chf

I’m in two minds whether to prefer the job in the Uk or take the rav. I feel like the Uk job will give up my right to permit c and have my dreams of living in Switzerland in the future dashed. I won’t be able to get another b permit if I leave now we have brexit

And the rav salary after tax is equal to the Uk salary after tax from working.

Finally because of my age and health I won’t be working after this job so I don’t actually need the money. I sold my Uk house a year and had inheritance which will last me a life time and I don’t have any kids

What would you do?

1) Take the Uk Jon and give up your permit and take home the same as the rav would pay
be unemployed with the rav and try and find a job in Switzerland on your terms whilst enjoying the time off
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Its a question because it presupposes that the RAV will pay and they are not going to give too much hassle - If the RAV end up being work masters then the UK job is better

If the RAV are going to make you do a few applications a month then the RAV is of course better

Secondly I do wish to stay in Switzerland but i can move if I need to which is why this question came up - I am tending towards the RAV option but I do wonder if it is morally right but also as easy as it is made out to be here
How can taking advantage of an unemployment insurance system for your own personal gain be morally right? I mean of course, do it if you want, but I don't see the need to broadcast it and ask obvious questions unless you are specifically looking to provoke a reaction from this community.
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  #25  
Old 28.06.2021, 10:03
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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How can taking advantage of an unemployment insurance system for your own personal gain be morally right? I mean of course, do it if you want, but I don't see the need to broadcast it and ask obvious questions unless you are specifically looking to provoke a reaction from this community.
I guess the only ones caring about the morality are foreigners like us. Every time I listen to an story from a local, they just use it, no moral worries at all.
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  #26  
Old 28.06.2021, 10:22
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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I guess the only ones caring about the morality are foreigners like us. Every time I listen to an story from a local, they just use it, no moral worries at all.
Are you taking about locals using it as intended, or locals abusing it by sitting on it without the intention to get a job?

If you are talking about the morality of simply using it for its required purpose, then I think you have not grasped the thread of the conversation as relates to the morality aspect.
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  #27  
Old 28.06.2021, 10:30
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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Are you taking about locals using it as intended, or locals abusing it by sitting on it without the intention to get a job?

If you are talking about the morality of simply using it for its required purpose, then I think you have not grasped the thread of the conversation as relates to the morality aspect.
That's the point: morals doesn't matter at all. It's a feature of modern secularist societies.

Does the person qualify according to the rules? If yes, use it. If not, well...they don't let you use it.
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  #28  
Old 28.06.2021, 10:31
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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Its a question because it presupposes that the RAV will pay and they are not going to give too much hassle - If the RAV end up being work masters then the UK job is better

If the RAV are going to make you do a few applications a month then the RAV is of course better

Secondly I do wish to stay in Switzerland but i can move if I need to which is why this question came up - I am tending towards the RAV option but I do wonder if it is morally right but also as easy as it is made out to be here
You are on payroll until Sept, want to stay in Switzerland, seem to have a bit of money and have prepared yourself for searching jobs here. Sounds like a plan that I wouldn't throw away for a mediocre job in the UK.

A friend of mine recently was on RAV for like 2 months. He had one meeting per phone, never got a call let alone a job offer and sent his docs proving applications (high level) which were never questioned.

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  #29  
Old 28.06.2021, 10:41
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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That's the point: morals doesn't matter at all. It's a feature of modern secularist societies.

Does the person qualify according to the rules? If yes, use it. If not, well...they don't let you use it.
For some it's morals for others it's simply the gaps in one's CV that you won't be able to justify later on. Most people I know are afraid of this "stigma" not only or not necessarily of "cashing in unemployment benefits is morally wrong".

@OP, think carefully of what you want to happen with your career in the future. Even if you decide to go with unemployment status, use the opportunity for training and personal development.
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  #30  
Old 28.06.2021, 10:43
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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That's the point: morals doesn't matter at all. It's a feature of modern secularist societies.

Does the person qualify according to the rules? If yes, use it. If not, well...they don't let you use it.
Well, the system is there in place for purpose, transparent and as fair as it can only get, so that there is no folks abusing it. Why would it be a shame or moral issue to use it? It’s not a social subsidy, it’s like any type of insurance e.g. car or household. If one needs it then one uses it. If one doesn’t need it, then one still pays into it in case one may need to use it one day. There are more people working than unemployed so that the system is still in a good financial shape. Let those who manage the system judge the candidate, a not the EF crowd.
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  #31  
Old 28.06.2021, 11:06
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Switzerland is country of rules, not morals, so don't ever think about "morals" when making decisions here or anticipating how others will make decisions that may impact you. This is, after all, a country whos private banks spent decades helping off-shore people avoid paying taxes that deprived other countries of much needed tax revenue to fund public services (how moral!)

Play the game with the RAV like everyone else does. Do your 10-12 applications per month, go on whatever courses they send you on and be available for any meetings/interviews within the 24 hour window. If, after 18 months you haven't found a new position, then you can reassess your options. If you want to stay in CH there is no point in returning to the UK which may impact your ability to return here in the future.

Best of luck and don't panic....that it what the RAV is for, to make sure you don't have to panic and make a poor decision.
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  #32  
Old 28.06.2021, 11:14
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Thank you - One final thought for the EF crowd :

1) If I take the UK job it will pay 5K a month (which is the same as RAV) and that is a very good salary I am told in London so they will expect blood

2) I have knowledge that this job will only last for one year (its with a consultancy and this role is for a one year statement of work) so after one year I will be unemployed.

This means that I work for one year and earn the same money as Switzrtland and then lose the entitlement to RAV after one year. On a purely commercial basis it does not make sense at all

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For some it's morals for others it's simply the gaps in one's CV that you won't be able to justify later on. Most people I know are afraid of this "stigma" not only or not necessarily of "cashing in unemployment benefits is morally wrong".

@OP, think carefully of what you want to happen with your career in the future. Even if you decide to go with unemployment status, use the opportunity for training and personal development.
I will not work again after this job because of age and health so that is not important at all.

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You are on payroll until Sept, want to stay in Switzerland, seem to have a bit of money and have prepared yourself for searching jobs here. Sounds like a plan that I wouldn't throw away for a mediocre job in the UK.

A friend of mine recently was on RAV for like 2 months. He had one meeting per phone, never got a call let alone a job offer and sent his docs proving applications (high level) which were never questioned.
And this is the point - I hear conflicting messages - Some say RAV is a easy and others say they are very strict and will make sure to manage you

Last edited by MusicChick; 28.06.2021 at 13:48. Reason: merging consecutive posts
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  #33  
Old 28.06.2021, 11:20
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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And this is the point - I hear conflicting messages - Some say RAV is a easy and others say they are very strict and will make sure to manage you
If they think you are making your best endeavours to find a job, they will be kind. If they think you are taking the piss & being lazy they will give you a shit life,
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  #34  
Old 28.06.2021, 11:27
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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If they think you are making your best endeavours to find a job, they will be kind. If they think you are taking the piss & being lazy they will give you a shit life,
You just apply for the jobs according to best of your knowledge and intentions. If there is no potential job advert, then you aim at those closest ones just to justify these 10-12 apps per month. You attend every meeting, classes and plan holidays like if you were working for your boss (now RAV is your employer). The period of time 18 months is very long. Where there is a will, there is a way. There may be contracts coming along the way or who knows your dream job is in the pipeline. You learn one of the official languages and get enough rest to prepare you for the next career move.

Being close to the retirement, it’s a fantastic way to fill in the remaining gap. Jobs become more scarce at some point but pension fund contributions like 3a are still possible, whereas one can park 2nd pillar in the vested benefits account for time being.
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  #35  
Old 28.06.2021, 12:12
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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Thank you - One final thought for the EF crowd :

1) If I take the UK job it will pay 5K a month (which is the same as RAV) and that is a very good salary I am told in London so they will expect blood
It's never healthy to expend the blood on work that London often demands IMV. And once you reach a certain age, it's actually barely viable; we all slow down. You're right, the salary sounds high for London, but why would you put yourself through that when you can do a "normal" day's work on the RAV? (And as others have said, the RAV is effectively your employer and your job is to get a new job)

Also, London is probably different and a bit more cosmopolitan, but EU citizens aren't having the easiest time of it in the UK at the moment (assuming you can meet the new points requirements in the new job)

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2) I have knowledge that this job will only last for one year (its with a consultancy and this role is for a one year statement of work) so after one year I will be unemployed.

This means that I work for one year and earn the same money as Switzrtland and then lose the entitlement to RAV after one year. On a purely commercial basis it does not make sense at all
Indeed. Even more reason not to put your C permit at risk. Even if you are EU as your profile suggests, you would start again from the beginning on a B permit if/when you came back.

Seems to me it's a no brainer.
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Old 28.06.2021, 12:28
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Not to mention that the UKís unemployment claim would be ridiculously low compared to Switzerland:

https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance
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  #37  
Old 28.06.2021, 13:43
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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Thank you - One final thought for the EF crowd :

1) If I take the UK job it will pay 5K a month (which is the same as RAV) and that is a very good salary I am told in London so they will expect blood

2) I have knowledge that this job will only last for one year (its with a consultancy and this role is for a one year statement of work) so after one year I will be unemployed.

This means that I work for one year and earn the same money as Switzrtland and then lose the entitlement to RAV after one year. On a purely commercial basis it does not make sense at all
You have unequivocally answered the question yourself. Based on this additional info, even if you ignore the commercial aspect, you'd just be shooting yourself in the foot.

Just imagine the stress of uprooting yourself for a 12-month role in the big smoke and the stress that entails.

Stay put, enjoy Switzerland, take RAV and if they break your balls and it's too much hassle then you have the means to survive anyway.
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  #38  
Old 28.06.2021, 15:09
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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I will not work again after this job because of age and health so that is not important at all.


And this is the point - I hear conflicting messages - Some say RAV is a easy and others say they are very strict and will make sure to manage you
In this case it seems like you know your options. I would have advised against RAV if your situation/age/plans were different. Of course it's an insurance you contributed to so I don't think you should worry from the moral pov. As I said, folks I know in this situation have accepted even less challenging jobs just to stay relevant and avoid RAV. Avoid it completely.

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Indeed. Even more reason not to put your C permit at risk. Even if you are EU as your profile suggests, you would start again from the beginning on a B permit if/when you came back.

Seems to me it's a no brainer.
This too.

Last edited by greenmount; 28.06.2021 at 15:58.
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Old 28.06.2021, 19:29
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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If you want to stay in Switzerland and have a hope of regaining some free movement in the future through naturalisation, then without a doubt go RAV; it's not "zumutbar" to expect you to take a job abroad if the centre of your life is here.

If you are certain now that you will want to retire in the UK and not live abroad again, take the UK job. But, as you say, it's a one-way irreversible decision.

Just to add to your considerations: if you're 6 months off C now, you'll be 3 months off in September and can probably apply almost straight away. Once you have your C, you can be out of CH for up to 4 years without losing your C permit (you have to actively request it and can't just up and leave, but under the CRA it's not as restrictive as the reasons EU citizens have to give to do the same).

Me? I'd absolutely go on the RAV route
In fact the optimal route is to stay in switzerland for 18 months and if still unemployed after that then move to UK / France - I have UK passport and family in france
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  #40  
Old 28.06.2021, 19:37
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Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

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I guess the only ones caring about the morality are foreigners like us. Every time I listen to an story from a local, they just use it, no moral worries at all.
It's the same locals that used the money stored in their banks in the 60s, and again any money coming from any criminal in the world, so no wonder they don't care. I really think that "when in Rome, do as the romans do" it's the most idiotic suggestion one can give, about moral values & decisions.

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I donít actually need the money. I sold my Uk house a year and had inheritance which will last me a life time and I donít have any kids
So, if you do need the money, why? just glide on that pot of money until death, or find something meaningful to do in your 8-5 working hours , like enjoying the outdoors or solving poverty in Switzerland.
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