Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27.06.2021, 10:54
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Flughafen
Posts: 57
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
LincolnAbrahams has no particular reputation at present
Should I take new role or sit on the rav

I have been terminated from my Swiss job in Zurich and my last payment date is in September

I am on a permit b and have been here for four years and half

I had planned to sign the rav and take my time to find a new job in Switzerland but a job has suddenly been offered in the Uk through a friend and the salary after tax is 5kgbp which is 6k chf

Iím in two minds whether to prefer the job in the Uk or take the rav. I feel like the Uk job will give up my right to permit c and have my dreams of living in Switzerland in the future dashed. I wonít be able to get another b permit if I leave now we have brexit

And the rav salary after tax is equal to the Uk salary after tax from working.

Finally because of my age and health I wonít be working after this job so I donít actually need the money. I sold my Uk house a year and had inheritance which will last me a life time and I donít have any kids

What would you do?

1) Take the Uk Jon and give up your permit and take home the same as the rav would pay
2£ be unemployed with the rav and try and find a job in Switzerland on your terms whilst enjoying the time off
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27.06.2021, 12:16
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
I have been terminated from my Swiss job in Zurich and my last payment date is in September

I am on a permit b and have been here for four years and half

I had planned to sign the rav and take my time to find a new job in Switzerland but a job has suddenly been offered in the Uk through a friend and the salary after tax is 5kgbp which is 6k chf

Iím in two minds whether to prefer the job in the Uk or take the rav. I feel like the Uk job will give up my right to permit c and have my dreams of living in Switzerland in the future dashed. I wonít be able to get another b permit if I leave now we have brexit

And the rav salary after tax is equal to the Uk salary after tax from working.

Finally because of my age and health I wonít be working after this job so I donít actually need the money. I sold my Uk house a year and had inheritance which will last me a life time and I donít have any kids

What would you do?

1) Take the Uk Jon and give up your permit and take home the same as the rav would pay
2£ be unemployed with the rav and try and find a job in Switzerland on your terms whilst enjoying the time off
Just read your own post attentively and you got your answer!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 27.06.2021, 12:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 8,806
Groaned at 324 Times in 248 Posts
Thanked 20,238 Times in 7,058 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

In my role as ALV contributor, I would recommend to take the job in the UK.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 27.06.2021, 14:00
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,968
Groaned at 186 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 8,679 Times in 2,902 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
In my role as ALV contributor, I would recommend to take the job in the UK.
As a person who has a very poor opinion of people who use social services when they have other options open to them, I second this. There are people who would do anything for a job or who deserve to get support but don't because they aren't "street smart". Even worse, you say you don't really need the money - then why not use your savings like many Swiss people I know have done because they didn't want to burden the system without truly needing to.

Also bear in mind that life has a way of throwing spanners in your smooth planning. You may suddenly find yourself in a situation where having an income without having to fight to get it every month and other advantages of being employed comes in useful. RAV may also not mean having time off. If they get the impression you're not really trying, they will keep you busy. Think doing menial tasks that require you to rock up somewhere at 7.30 am, this is what they did to an acquaintance of mine.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Kittster for this post:
  #5  
Old 27.06.2021, 14:19
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
As a person who has a very poor opinion of people who use social services when they have other options open to them, I second this. .......
And again: ALV is not social services. It is an insurance.

It is not honourable not to claim it when you need it (and wanting to stay in a country one had a "life-long dream" to live in is a good enough reason). It is about as stupid as paying for a bag of food at Migros but leave it behind.
Reply With Quote
The following 17 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 27.06.2021, 14:22
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 592
Groaned at 28 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 730 Times in 366 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

RAV isnít fun/time off Ė can become very frustrating. Depending upon the situation, you might have to jump through a few hoops but I donít see ďmenial tasks at 07:30Ē unless thatís what you did until now anyway. You imply a certain age Ė could well mean going through the motions for benefits and all your applications are rejected one after the other.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank LtSoftDrink for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 27.06.2021, 14:40
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
..... Finally because of my age and health I wonít be working after this job so I donít actually need the money. I sold my Uk house a year and had inheritance which will last me a life time and I donít have any kids

What would you do? ....
Actually, if that's the case I'd do neither.

Twice in my life I did not claim ALV although totally entitled to. I just couldn't be bother with the limitations they would put on me. So when ever I was able to finance those breaks myself I did.
But that's me, not many people have this urge for freedom, at any cost.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 27.06.2021, 14:42
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,711
Groaned at 118 Times in 82 Posts
Thanked 7,552 Times in 3,437 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

If you want to stay in Switzerland you need to stay here until you get citizenship. If thatís not so important, take the U.K. job.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 27.06.2021, 15:19
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,953
Groaned at 449 Times in 346 Posts
Thanked 18,094 Times in 10,095 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Another alternative, if you're as rich as you think you are, is to try for a non-work B permit.

"Retirees
Retirees wishing to settle down in Switzerland must also provide proof that they have sufficient financial means ensuring that they do not become dependent on the Swiss social security benefits (welfare). They must also have adequate health insurance coverage. Generally speaking, financial means are deemed adequate if the amount exceeds the threshold whereby a Swiss national would be entitled to claim supplementary benefits."

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...actsheets.html
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 27.06.2021, 16:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,968
Groaned at 186 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 8,679 Times in 2,902 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
RAV isnít fun/time off Ė can become very frustrating. Depending upon the situation, you might have to jump through a few hoops but I donít see ďmenial tasks at 07:30Ē unless thatís what you did until now anyway. You imply a certain age Ė could well mean going through the motions for benefits and all your applications are rejected one after the other.
The person who ended up doing that has a degree and worked a relatively complex office job before. They ended up getting a job pretty quickly after the start of the "reintegration measures".

And I am aware that RAV is not the same as social services, however, it belongs in the same category: not paying your own way but using the money of others to fund your expenses. That definitely should be available to those in genuine need, but the wording of the OP is essentially "should I continue to work for my own upkeep or intentionally become burden on the support system of the state?".

I agree that plowing into your savings when you are not to blame for becoming unemployed is daft. It is merely an example of just how unwilling some people in this country are to be a financial burden. In some cases it was also because being on the RAV payroll is a monumental PITA.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27.06.2021, 17:04
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
And I am aware that RAV is not the same as social services, however, it belongs in the same category: not paying your own way but using the money of others to fund your expenses. That definitely should be available to those in genuine need, but the wording of the OP is essentially "should I continue to work for my own upkeep or intentionally become burden on the support system of the state?".
Not really, insurance is a pooling of risk, the insurance is even compulsory in CH, so to be in the position to claim you need to have paid a premium in the first place.
How do you feel about Pillar 1 OAP, where you get money back based on how many years insurance you have paid against living past the age of 64/65.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 27.06.2021, 17:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
As a person who has a very poor opinion of people who use social services when they have other options open to them, I second this. There are people who would do anything for a job or who deserve to get support but don't because they aren't "street smart". Even worse, you say you don't really need the money - then why not use your savings like many Swiss people I know have done because they didn't want to burden the system without truly needing to.

Also bear in mind that life has a way of throwing spanners in your smooth planning. You may suddenly find yourself in a situation where having an income without having to fight to get it every month and other advantages of being employed comes in useful. RAV may also not mean having time off. If they get the impression you're not really trying, they will keep you busy. Think doing menial tasks that require you to rock up somewhere at 7.30 am, this is what they did to an acquaintance of mine.
Oh come on. One isn't obliged to move countries. This person obviously isn't taking the Michael and would gladly take a Swiss offer.

If you wouldn't expect a Swiss person to move to Britain to avoid RAV then you shouldn't expect a Brit too.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 27.06.2021, 18:31
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 592
Groaned at 28 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 730 Times in 366 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
And I am aware that RAV is not the same as social services, however, it belongs in the same category: not paying your own way but using the money of others to fund your expenses. That definitely should be available to those in genuine need, but the wording of the OP is essentially "should I continue to work for my own upkeep or intentionally become burden on the support system of the state?".
RAV/ALV is an insurance – nothing else. As a typical Swiss, you’ll have the payslip deduction from day one. However, all that counts are the last 24 calendar months. I don’t begrudge an expat “cashing in” after just 4 Ĺ years – it’s the way the system is set up. I guess, earlier on, it was unlikely you’d not find another job here. Times change….

Last edited by LtSoftDrink; 27.06.2021 at 19:34.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank LtSoftDrink for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 27.06.2021, 18:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 592
Groaned at 28 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 730 Times in 366 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
Oh come on. One isn't obliged to move countries. This person obviously isn't taking the Michael and would gladly take a Swiss offer.

If you wouldn't expect a Swiss person to move to Britain to avoid RAV then you shouldn't expect a Brit too.
Depending upon your narrative, the Brit would be moving home and taking back control Ė the unfortunate Swiss, well, an appreciation of Cadburyís chocolate might be a start...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank LtSoftDrink for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 27.06.2021, 19:08
eng_ch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Up where the air is clear
Posts: 1,802
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 1,826 Times in 921 Posts
eng_ch has a reputation beyond reputeeng_ch has a reputation beyond reputeeng_ch has a reputation beyond reputeeng_ch has a reputation beyond reputeeng_ch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Quote:
View Post
I have been terminated from my Swiss job in Zurich and my last payment date is in September

I am on a permit b and have been here for four years and half
If you want to stay in Switzerland and have a hope of regaining some free movement in the future through naturalisation, then without a doubt go RAV; it's not "zumutbar" to expect you to take a job abroad if the centre of your life is here.

If you are certain now that you will want to retire in the UK and not live abroad again, take the UK job. But, as you say, it's a one-way irreversible decision.

Just to add to your considerations: if you're 6 months off C now, you'll be 3 months off in September and can probably apply almost straight away. Once you have your C, you can be out of CH for up to 4 years without losing your C permit (you have to actively request it and can't just up and leave, but under the CRA it's not as restrictive as the reasons EU citizens have to give to do the same).

Me? I'd absolutely go on the RAV route
__________________
Charter our yacht in Greece
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank eng_ch for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 27.06.2021, 19:30
p42's Avatar
p42 p42 is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kanton Schwyz.
Posts: 841
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 431 Times in 278 Posts
p42 has an excellent reputationp42 has an excellent reputationp42 has an excellent reputationp42 has an excellent reputation
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Now that you don't *have* to get a job to survive, I bet you can get something here really interesting and meaningful, as you don't have the stress or pressure of a normal jobseeker.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank p42 for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 27.06.2021, 19:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,786
Groaned at 109 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 13,584 Times in 5,529 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

OP, your profile says that you are French, which leaves you free to return to live in Switzerland, later, should you wish to, whether to work or to retire, so leaving Switzerland would not, in fact, be burning a bridge.

Having said that, in your position I'd also be wanting to get that C-permit, because it would give you so much more security.

Since, as you say, you don't need the money, why bother registering with the RAV? They require a great deal of effort from you, in proving all the efforts you're making to find work, and they may send you on assessments and courses and the so-called "integration" programmes.

I'm with Curley on this, and would choose the freedom from all that, especially as you could just support yourself. And as p42 says, you could then choose to do something else that is interesting and meaningful, perhaps by helping someone else with something.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 27.06.2021, 20:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,968
Groaned at 186 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 8,679 Times in 2,902 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Maybe it was the thread title that rubbed me the wrong way, making me dive in pretty harshly; I obviously don't expect someone to move countries for a job (although that was apparently fine when they wanted to come here and there are cases where I still feel like going back home is probably the best move), nor do I begrudge people getting pensions, I'm not a savage. And yet, if all of us cashed in on the various insurances that we pay into, there wouldn't be much money left, would there? So I stand by the view that you should do your utmost to avoid making use of the insurance.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 27.06.2021, 23:12
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZŁrich
Posts: 158
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 26 Times in 18 Posts
Flutterby has no particular reputation at present
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Signing up with the RAV comes with meaningful obligations, like writing x number of applications per month and potentially joining courses, not being able to travel abroad freely, etc. Itís all ok and reasonable, but isnít just signing up for a paycheck.
If you donít need the money, I would prefer not to do it.
But also if you want to stay in CH mid- and long term, giving up your permit would be stupid.
Maybe I would do a serious attempt to find a job here in CH, rather than taking the hassle to move to UK.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 27.06.2021, 23:17
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 3,459
Groaned at 318 Times in 220 Posts
Thanked 6,947 Times in 2,945 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should I take new role or sit on the rav

Option 2. How is that even a question?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IT role ClaireP Employment 8 26.03.2019 19:05
Role in HR and job boards Tyler Durden Employment 0 06.09.2017 18:06
Role models BokerTov General off-topic 2 18.04.2011 13:17
RAV's role??? astrid Employment 15 04.12.2009 09:15
Possible role in Zurich Scotsman1975 Employment 2 12.09.2007 11:07


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0