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  #41  
Old 14.07.2021, 13:57
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

Hello everyone.

Wanted to provide an overview of the offer that came back.

They are suggesting ~150,000 chf.

The conditions are interesting though. I would go to Swiss for the first few months and then return to the UK for 18 months to work remote, flying in once or twice a month and renting a small apartment.

Much lower than the asking amount but high for the UK job market. The first 4 months in Switzerland worry me though is it enough for a family of 3 with a dog? Especially with rental of an apartment, mortgage in the UK and health insurance for three people.
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  #42  
Old 14.07.2021, 14:12
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

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Hello everyone.

Wanted to provide an overview of the offer that came back.

They are suggesting ~150,000 chf.

The conditions are interesting though. I would go to Swiss for the first few months and then return to the UK for 18 months to work remote, flying in once or twice a month and renting a small apartment.

Much lower than the asking amount but high for the UK job market. The first 4 months in Switzerland worry me though is it enough for a family of 3 with a dog? Especially with rental of an apartment, mortgage in the UK and health insurance for three people.
150k is a 'decent' salary, but no-one but you knows what your ongoing costs are and there are plenty of threads on the forum with cost of living info that you can read through. Time for you to sit down and spend a few hours doing some research.

Last edited by Chuff; 14.07.2021 at 15:26.
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  #43  
Old 14.07.2021, 14:49
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

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Hello everyone.

Wanted to provide an overview of the offer that came back.

They are suggesting ~150,000 chf.

The conditions are interesting though. I would go to Swiss for the first few months and then return to the UK for 18 months to work remote, flying in once or twice a month and renting a small apartment.

Much lower than the asking amount but high for the UK job market. The first 4 months in Switzerland worry me though is it enough for a family of 3 with a dog? Especially with rental of an apartment, mortgage in the UK and health insurance for three people.
Honestly, no it isn’t enough to make such a move & risk (based upon what you have told us). You said you are about to have a baby correct? And you want to be away from your new family at this time?

Under normal circumstances, 150k is plenty to support a family - but with the other details you have shared, I personally don’t think the risk/reward is worth it.
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  #44  
Old 14.07.2021, 15:11
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

I tend to agree with Suzie Q. The renting a small apartment is I suppose a ploy to obtain a Swiss permit which you'd then be at risk of losing. I suppose they told you they'd give you a full time Swiss contract in Switzerland but you could work from home as much as you want after a few months. If you're effectively working in the UK they/you would need to pay UK social security as well as UK tax. There would be no tax advantage to having a Swiss employer.

90k GBP was it? That's currently 114k CHF so does the extra 35k (before tax) cover the extra expenses? Your extra expenses are not tax deductible.

If you *want* to take the job it's up to you but usually such inconveniences are handsomely compensated here. Be aware you can lose your job at any time for effectively any reason. Imagine coming and being let go 3 or 4months later.

Maybe look at big pharma. They generally have more generous budgets but these days the emphasis is on reducing costs.

I would stick with the UK job if it were me. Make the most of your UK life and if you lose your job then maybe look to Switzerland again. I'd say the UK is 'the real deal'.
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  #45  
Old 14.07.2021, 15:12
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

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Hello everyone.

Wanted to provide an overview of the offer that came back.

They are suggesting ~150,000 chf.

The conditions are interesting though. I would go to Swiss for the first few months and then return to the UK for 18 months to work remote, flying in once or twice a month and renting a small apartment.

Much lower than the asking amount but high for the UK job market. The first 4 months in Switzerland worry me though is it enough for a family of 3 with a dog? Especially with rental of an apartment, mortgage in the UK and health insurance for three people.
So financially it doesn't make sense by a long chalk.
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  #46  
Old 14.07.2021, 15:19
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

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Hello everyone.

Wanted to provide an overview of the offer that came back.

They are suggesting ~150,000 chf.

The conditions are interesting though. I would go to Swiss for the first few months and then return to the UK for 18 months to work remote, flying in once or twice a month and renting a small apartment.

Much lower than the asking amount but high for the UK job market. The first 4 months in Switzerland worry me though is it enough for a family of 3 with a dog? Especially with rental of an apartment, mortgage in the UK and health insurance for three people.
No way is it worth it. The conditions sound dubious too. A bit strange that they would allow you to work remotely for so long. This has tax implications for both you and the company.
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  #47  
Old 14.07.2021, 15:31
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

Forget about the additional expenses for a moment...

CHF 150K equals roughly GBP 118k, because of marginal tax rates (withdrawal of personal allowance above GBP 100k) you will go from a take home an extra GBP 12,640 a year, because you will be paying UK tax and national insurance.

Is it worth giving up the job security you currently have, being separated from your family and having the hassle of travel for another GBP 1,000 a month on an already strong salary?

Renting an apartment in Switzerland for 3-4 months (it will have to be a short term business apartment) will more than wipe out your first year post tax salary gains. 12 years ago my company was paying CHF 3000 for a studio apartment outside the centre of Zurich. Frankly that isn't the kind of place a professional on CHF 150k would want to live.
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  #48  
Old 14.07.2021, 15:40
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

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Forget about the additional expenses for a moment...

CHF 150K equals roughly GBP 118k, because of marginal tax rates (withdrawal of personal allowance above GBP 100k) you will go from a take home an extra GBP 12,640 a year, because you will be paying UK tax and national insurance.

Is it worth giving up the job security you currently have, being separated from your family and having the hassle of travel for another GBP 1,000 a month on an already strong salary?

Renting an apartment in Switzerland for 3-4 months (it will have to be a short term business apartment) will more than wipe out your first year post tax salary gains. 12 years ago my company was paying CHF 3000 for a studio apartment outside the centre of Zurich. Frankly that isn't the kind of place a professional on CHF 150k would want to live.
I interpreted his post as he would be getting help from the company for the accommodation, because it would be really unreasonable to expect him to uproot his family and pay for 4 months of expensive temporary short-term rent at the company's behest. Also, it would be unreasonable for him to pay for his own hotel or business apartment once or twice per month for what seems to essentially be a required business trip.

If he has to pay those things himself then yeah, no way is it worth considering.
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  #49  
Old 14.07.2021, 15:54
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

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I interpreted his post as he would be getting help from the company for the accommodation, because it would be really unreasonable to expect him to uproot his family and pay for 4 months of expensive temporary short-term rent at the company's behest. Also, it would be unreasonable for him to pay for his own hotel or business apartment once or twice per month for what seems to essentially be a required business trip.

If he has to pay those things himself then yeah, no way is it worth considering.
It's a valid interpretation. I wasn't clear in what I meant. Personally I don't think it's worth it for GBP 1,000 a month (assuming all the accommodation is paid for by the employer). However, if the OP is expected on top to pay for accommodation, it becomes a net loss to him.

I certainly wouldn't expect to uproot a family for what would essentially be a four month international assignment.

Agreed that business trips would of course be expensed.
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  #50  
Old 14.07.2021, 16:00
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

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It's a valid interpretation. I wasn't clear in what I meant. Personally I don't think it's worth it for GBP 1,000 a month (assuming all the accommodation is paid for by the employer). However, if the OP is expected on top to pay for accommodation, it becomes a net loss to him.

I certainly wouldn't expect to uproot a family for what would essentially be a four month international assignment.

Agreed that business trips would of course be expensed.
4 months is indeed really short for uprooting a family, but with the current UK quarantine restrictions (and not knowing if he is vaccinated or not) it's probably not so feasible to come here himself and then go back and forth every weekend. And as he has a young kid, not seeing him for 4 months is probably an option that, even if he could deal with it, would get him castrated by his missus.

All in all, I agree that this offer with those conditions does sound very unappealing vs what he is getting now in his stable environment.
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Old 16.07.2021, 00:58
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

Hi All,

I declined the offer. Completely agree with what has been said. To answer some of your questions, the cost of living in Switzerland would not have been covered - so it became an immediate net loss. Even more so when you factor in child care for the weeks I would have been away. Ultimately I think missing 1/4 of your child's early years should be better compensated.

I will post any updates but I think negotiating an offer creates an unpleasant feeling for all the parties involved.

Thanks again for your help. This may be the most responsive forum I have been on. I almost wish I could move to Switzerland so I could contribute and return the favour.
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  #52  
Old 16.07.2021, 07:26
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

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I will post any updates but I think negotiating an offer creates an unpleasant feeling for all the parties involved.
Negotiation is completely normal in situations like this and I am not sure why people seem to think otherwise. You have absolutely nothing to lose so why would you not negotiate?

"Thanks for the offer but it would not be worth it for me because of X and Y. To make it worth it I would need X and Y.".

You are the resource that they want, not the other way around. What's the worst they can say... no? Don't do what many people of a more delicate disposition seem to do and mistake a tough discussion/negotiation for some kind of conflict.

Last edited by Chuff; 16.07.2021 at 09:21. Reason: typo
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Old 16.07.2021, 08:07
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Re: Salary conversion from Cambridge UK to Bern

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Thanks again for your help. This may be the most responsive forum I have been on. I almost wish I could move to Switzerland so I could contribute and return the favour.
Happy to help! So nice to hear that this forum has still been helpful as it has gone a different direction somewhat from when I joined.

If Switzerland is where you want to be, look at the big companies in Basel and Zurich. I’m also in pharma and those are where the most opportunities are.

Your mentioned your wife is a doctor, I‘m not sure where she wants to take her career, but there are many former doctors working in Pharma. Perhaps if you are eventually making the move, she can read up on how to best break into the industry as this is how she would most likely be able to work lucratively in Switzerland. (Learning the language and obtaining local certification will be much more difficult / require long term goals).

Wishing you and your family all the best in the future!
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