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  #21  
Old 06.08.2021, 21:36
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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Basically for the same lifestyle you need to double your UK salary, if it is a promotion then more.
At those levels the Swiss tax is not much lower than UK taking account of health insurance which is really a UK tax
Over half million then Swiss rates are lower.
I guess you didn‘t read my post from 1745 today. Sadly I don‘t earn over 500k in either currency.

C. CHF 300 a month for health insurance is an irrelevance if you are looking to move on a £145k salary. Even 1000 a month for 2 adults, 2 kids isn‘t a particularly big deal. UK PAYE on £145k is 40% in total (£57.5k). In Zurich CHF 185k for a single including social security and health insurance would be 24%, for a family it would be 26%. Any bonus in the UK is going to be taxed at 45%, much lower in ZH. NB using the ZH quellensteuer tables.

In Schwyz or Zug those numbers would be comfortably under 20% (I can‘t be bothered checking).
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  #22  
Old 06.08.2021, 22:32
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

I agree with the above poster

Put the question differently : if you were on 175k chf would you really accept a 90k Uk permanente deal? I thought not!
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  #23  
Old 06.08.2021, 23:38
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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I guess you didn‘t read my post from 1745 today. Sadly I don‘t earn over 500k in either currency.

C. CHF 300 a month for health insurance is an irrelevance if you are looking to move on a £145k salary. Even 1000 a month for 2 adults, 2 kids isn‘t a particularly big deal. UK PAYE on £145k is 40% in total (£57.5k). In Zurich CHF 185k for a single including social security and health insurance would be 24%, for a family it would be 26%. Any bonus in the UK is going to be taxed at 45%, much lower in ZH. NB using the ZH quellensteuer tables.

In Schwyz or Zug those numbers would be comfortably under 20% (I can‘t be bothered checking).
That raises some questions¨
Will you get a Swiss permit that allows you to live in a different Canton (lower tax) than your employer is based in?
Did you compare UK NI rates with Swiss AHV? On 300 K you would be paying Swiss AHV of around 15K per year.
Lifestyle question, in the UK I always had BUPA health insurance in addition to NHS so in Switzerland, I never had just the basic level health insurance. If you travel abroad on business, especially to the US. then the supplemental levels of Swiss health insurance are very useful.
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  #24  
Old 06.08.2021, 23:39
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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I agree with the above poster

Put the question differently : if you were on 175k chf would you really accept a 90k Uk permanente deal? I thought not!
Depends on the location, certainly if outside of the London area.
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  #25  
Old 07.08.2021, 05:37
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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Depends on the location, certainly if outside of the London area.
I wouldn't anywhere.

I was on c. 85k in London and c. 165k here all in and I'm much, much better off here.

I can save not far what my take home pay in London was! London isn't expensive when you realise that certain locations in zone 6 are cheap and have non stop trains that get you to London Bridge in 20 minutes. My door to door in Orpington was c. 35 minutes. Housing there is still very reasonably priced.

The problem in the UK is tax. If you are a high earner then it's not avoidable as putting it in a pension you'll hit the lifetime allowance.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 07.08.2021 at 09:52.
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Old 07.08.2021, 08:33
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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That raises some questions¨
Will you get a Swiss permit that allows you to live in a different Canton (lower tax) than your employer is based in?
Did you compare UK NI rates with Swiss AHV? On 300 K you would be paying Swiss AHV of around 15K per year.
Lifestyle question, in the UK I always had BUPA health insurance in addition to NHS so in Switzerland, I never had just the basic level health insurance. If you travel abroad on business, especially to the US. then the supplemental levels of Swiss health insurance are very useful.
Agree that the cantonal permit topic is new for Brits. I don’t think a canton is going to turn down someone with a CHF 185k salary (and hence the attendant tax) though. Regardless, the ZH example showed deductions were c. 40% lower than the UK for that salary.

Yes it’s an all in amount. For the calculation I did for you for Zurich, I assumed 6.5% for AHV/IV etc and used 300, respectively 1000 per month for the health insurance calculations. The UK amount is from a net salary calculator, so includes NI and tax. Hence, it is a like for like comparison.

BUPA is a nice to have just like supplementary insurance is here. I can’t imagine that the price difference between the two (if there is one and in which direction?) is material enough to make a difference at that level of income. IIRC last time I looked, adding all the bells and whistles to my Swiss HI added about 200 a month and is superior to what I remember UK private insurance offering.
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  #27  
Old 07.08.2021, 09:11
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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I'm looking at an executive role in Switzerland and have been asked what my salary expectations are. A permanent relocation to Switzerland would be required as this is not an expat role. Currently I'm on a basic salary in the UK of £145k per annum with executive benefits like share options, private medical insurance, bonus, car allowance and pension contributions. What should I be asking for in Switzerland? I've done some research and am thinking around 300k is that about right?
145k GBP is 185k CHF.

225-300k would be a likely offer in Switzerland depending on industry/age/experience/bonus. And FYI an expat still means someone who lives permanently here as it just means someone who lives outside of their native country.
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  #28  
Old 07.08.2021, 10:32
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

I got a 20% bump coming here. Would I swap for old salary in London? No way!

The real cost of living here is not as high as it first seems. Yes your grocery bill will at least double, but how much is that of your total budget?

Lots of discussions about rent above. My impression is it’s roughly equivalent to London range. Buying property is a different matter. You may well never be able to afford that.

Bear in mind on your salary it will make sense to life somewhere low tax. Also bear in mind that not only do you pay less tax here, you also pay fewer. No CGT for example. And you can write a huge amount off against tax.
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Old 07.08.2021, 10:44
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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Basically for the same lifestyle you need to double your UK salary
Depends on your salary and lifestyle. If you’re on a lowish salary and go clubbing and to restaurants several times a week, then yes.

If you’re on high salary then the tax savings really kick in. Eating out is expensive because food (thanks to import duties) and Swiss salaries are high. But if you’re a sensible squirrel that doesn’t live for fine dining and partying, you’ll soon be piling up the nuts. You can always let rip back home.

Last edited by Xenophanes; 07.08.2021 at 10:45. Reason: Typo
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  #30  
Old 07.08.2021, 10:56
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

Re B permits, can anyone confirm whether Brits arriving post 1 Jan can no longer reside outside canton of employment? I somehow don’t think salary would make a difference if so.

To the OP, that means you‘d have to live in Zurich canton. No great hardship, but still worth noting.
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  #31  
Old 07.08.2021, 15:57
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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Re B permits, can anyone confirm whether Brits arriving post 1 Jan can no longer reside outside canton of employment? I somehow don’t think salary would make a difference if so.

To the OP, that means you‘d have to live in Zurich canton. No great hardship, but still worth noting.
In principle, as third-country nationals, British new arrivals are subject to the same rules as any other third-country national and would normally be expected to live in the same canton as where they work. There are exceptions you hear of among TCNs - I imagine usually if one spouse works in one canton and the other in another - but I would think *especially* on the figures being bandied about here, the canton granting the permit would not want to let go of those taxes, even if another canton would be quite happy to welcome them.
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  #32  
Old 07.08.2021, 16:07
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

The big issue here is services. Many people talk about the high salaries in Switzerland but, in reality, salaries are flat. What I mean by this is that people at the bottom of society are over paid (relative to the value they create) and people at the top are underpaid. So someone stacking shelves in a supermarket in Switzerland makes CHF 3.5k/month whereas the same role at Tesco in the UK pays around £800-1k/month. A banker in London might make £600k-700k whereas his counterpart in Zurich might make CHF 250-300k.

The impact of this is that services are expensive here. A cleaning lady in London is £10/hour but CHF 30/hour in Zurich. A babysitter is £8/hour but CHF 25-30/hour here. Dry cleaning a shirt is £1/shirt but CHF 4-5/shirt. Eating out and entertainment can be 2-to-3x the price of the UK. In one of my favorite restaurants in London (Cecconi's in Mayfair) I can get a fantastic meal for £50 whereas here in Zurich you are talking at least CHF 100/head for an average meal.

When thinking about the "cost of living" you really need to think about what kind of lifestyle you want to live. If you want to recreate a London lifestyle where you eat out often, outsource things like cleaning, and like entertainment you will need a much higher budget than someone who adopts the Swiss lifestyle which is more outdoors focused and less consumption focused.
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  #33  
Old 07.08.2021, 16:25
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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The big issue here is services. Many people talk about the high salaries in Switzerland but, in reality, salaries are flat. What I mean by this is that people at the bottom of society are over paid (relative to the value they create) and people at the top are underpaid. So someone stacking shelves in a supermarket in Switzerland makes CHF 3.5k/month whereas the same role at Tesco in the UK pays around £800-1k/month. A banker in London might make £600k-700k whereas his counterpart in Zurich might make CHF 250-300k.

The impact of this is that services are expensive here. A cleaning lady in London is £10/hour but CHF 30/hour in Zurich. A babysitter is £8/hour but CHF 25-30/hour here. Dry cleaning a shirt is £1/shirt but CHF 4-5/shirt. Eating out and entertainment can be 2-to-3x the price of the UK. In one of my favorite restaurants in London (Cecconi's in Mayfair) I can get a fantastic meal for £50 whereas here in Zurich you are talking at least CHF 100/head for an average meal.

When thinking about the "cost of living" you really need to think about what kind of lifestyle you want to live. If you want to recreate a London lifestyle where you eat out often, outsource things like cleaning, and like entertainment you will need a much higher budget than someone who adopts the Swiss lifestyle which is more outdoors focused and less consumption focused.
This is well put. Switzerland has a very low pre-tax gini coefficient. Here I earn a much smaller multiple of the local median salary than I did in London. But then I pay way less tax.

So yes, services are expensive. In the UK we had a nanny and cleaner, which we don’t here. We eat out less. But basically overall when paying for services we’re basically paying Swiss people directly into their pockets, versus in the UK paying taxes that are redistributed by the government.

The same principle applies to the grocery bill, which is inflated by import duties, so most produce in the supermarkets is Swiss. You’re paying the farmer directly instead of taxes for agricultural subsidies.

The point about lifestyle is particularly valid, and why ultimately a simple salary comparison isn’t very meaningful.
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  #34  
Old 07.08.2021, 16:28
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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The big issue here is services. Many people talk about the high salaries in Switzerland but, in reality, salaries are flat. What I mean by this is that people at the bottom of society are over paid (relative to the value they create) and people at the top are underpaid. So someone stacking shelves in a supermarket in Switzerland makes CHF 3.5k/month whereas the same role at Tesco in the UK pays around £800-1k/month. A banker in London might make £600k-700k whereas his counterpart in Zurich might make CHF 250-300k.

The impact of this is that services are expensive here. A cleaning lady in London is £10/hour but CHF 30/hour in Zurich. A babysitter is £8/hour but CHF 25-30/hour here. Dry cleaning a shirt is £1/shirt but CHF 4-5/shirt. Eating out and entertainment can be 2-to-3x the price of the UK. In one of my favorite restaurants in London (Cecconi's in Mayfair) I can get a fantastic meal for £50 whereas here in Zurich you are talking at least CHF 100/head for an average meal.

When thinking about the "cost of living" you really need to think about what kind of lifestyle you want to live. If you want to recreate a London lifestyle where you eat out often, outsource things like cleaning, and like entertainment you will need a much higher budget than someone who adopts the Swiss lifestyle which is more outdoors focused and less consumption focused.
I agree with your facts but vehemently disagree with your definition of value.

London bankers on £500k+ do not create 50x more value than someone working in a supermarket. Money/profit maybe, but not value.

Switzerland also has a significant salary bias in a few big cities, but nothing like the massive salary inflation seen in London finance.
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  #35  
Old 07.08.2021, 16:44
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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I agree with your facts but vehemently disagree with your definition of value.

London bankers on £500k+ do not create 50x more value than someone working in a supermarket. Money/profit maybe, but not value.

Switzerland also has a significant salary bias in a few big cities, but nothing like the massive salary inflation seen in London finance.
London banking salaries have been pretty crappy for the most part for people starting after the financial crisis. Which was a long time ago now. I was still in my teens.
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  #36  
Old 07.08.2021, 16:49
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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London bankers on £500k+ do not create 50x more value than someone working in a supermarket. Money/profit maybe, but not value.
I can assure you that the ones making many multiples of £500k do create value as their bonus's are based on their performances.
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  #37  
Old 07.08.2021, 17:13
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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London bankers on £500k+ do not create 50x more value than someone working in a supermarket. Money/profit maybe, but not value..
What? That's not even a logical comparison. If a person earning 500k or more for their company makes multiple times that salary amount for the company in return then of course they are objectively far better value than someone who works in a supermarket.

Last edited by Chuff; 07.08.2021 at 23:02. Reason: Typo
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  #38  
Old 07.08.2021, 22:17
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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What I mean by this is that people at the bottom of society are over paid (relative to the value they create) and people at the top are underpaid.
Yeah, in the words of Sterling Archer … “Uh, phrasing“

Incomes at the lower end of the scale seem higher in Switzerland than elsewhere because there isn’t EU Freedom of Movement. This means workers can command a higher wage. This doesn’t mean they’re “overpaid“. It‘s basic market forces. This cost is passed onto customers. Who created “value“ in the enterprise really has nothing to do with it.

Personally I think the Swiss system works, and would far rather pay more directly for services than give to politicians to distribute in welfare, subsidies and income support.
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  #39  
Old 08.08.2021, 19:06
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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Any bonus in the UK is going to be taxed at 45%, much lower in ZH. NB using the ZH quellensteuer tables.
Wrong. It will be taxed 41.5% in ZH city given the income level the OP is looking at unless you earn approx. 800k+. Then it is 40%.

As someone with higher household income Switzerland is in some aspects significantly more expensive. It depends on your costs.

- food - more expensive in Switzerlandbut easier to find good quality (we also spend quite of time in the UK, at least pre-Covid)
- clothes - UK is cheaper with better quality and variety for most items
- restaurants - 30-50% more expensive, plus UK restaurants are much better in my opinion
- household stuff more expensive (the major deal breaker when comparing costs for higher income levels. e.g. good quality food is of relatively equal price in most countries and not a particularly significant cost - we pay more for health insurance p.a. than food)
- rent similar - depending on wishes can be cheaper or more expensive
- you can send your kids to OK schools for free in Switzerland as opposed to the UK where it depends a lot on where you live (this depends on if you have kids and their age), also a major bullet point
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Old 08.08.2021, 19:17
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Re: Salary comparison UK to Switzerland

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Wrong. It will be taxed 41.5% in ZH city given the income level the OP is looking at unless you earn approx. 800k+. Then it is 40%.

As someone with higher household income Switzerland is in some aspects significantly more expensive. It depends on your costs.

- food - more expensive in Switzerlandbut easier to find good quality (we also spend quite of time in the UK, at least pre-Covid)
- clothes - UK is cheaper with better quality and variety for most items
- restaurants - 30-50% more expensive, plus UK restaurants are much better in my opinion
- household stuff more expensive (the major deal breaker when comparing costs for higher income levels. e.g. good quality food is of relatively equal price in most countries and not a particularly significant cost - we pay more for health insurance p.a. than food)
- rent similar - depending on wishes can be cheaper or more expensive
- you can send your kids to OK schools for free in Switzerland as opposed to the UK where it depends a lot on where you live (this depends on if you have kids and their age), also a major bullet point
Did you actually read what I wrote or just look at the words and make your own conclusions?
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