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  #41  
Old 12.09.2021, 11:01
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Agreed. Some big companies don't even pay that well. Daily rates at banks are not what they used to be, they've been decreasing since 2015.
indeed, rates are going down, it's pretty challenging to get more than 1500chf/man-day.
but there's a reason - companies, including banks, do outsource, or take contractors only for crappy, operational projects with low budgets.

Times, when bank would hire top notch contractors to develop new feature, are gone. Those things are done internally and external contractors are mostly hired for projects that are boring (nobody internal wants to do it), low budget (can't afford internal workforce), or dead end (contractor as a scapegoat).

Contractors are seen as way to save money, take care of most boring/annoying projects or a scapegoat (project going to sh*t and need to put blame on somebody).


EDIT: disclosure: I was on buying end of contractors.
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  #42  
Old 15.09.2021, 09:39
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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I have seen several colleague getting a severance package in Germany from a US company as well...

Thanks for the link, interesting numbers.
Yes, the company I worked for has offices in Germany as well . Apparently in Germany they had work unions who at least slowed down the process and make the end date more difficult to reach.
For the people in CH....plans and deadlines were quite easy to make ...apparently.
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  #43  
Old 15.09.2021, 10:08
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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But he isnt an architect, he is a senior software engineer. I know the banks in Zurich and had some of the well known pharmas as clients as well. For a 140k perm base salary do you have to offer something more than that: Thats is a "director" level base salary and there are not that many around in IT.

As I said: not impossible but at the top end of the market.
A director level in banking can be up to 200k plus a lot of other perks.

I went perm last year on more than 140 as a senior DBA in banking and I'm not Director level.
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  #44  
Old 15.09.2021, 13:11
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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A director level in banking can be up to 200k plus a lot of other perks.

I went perm last year on more than 140 as a senior DBA in banking and I'm not Director level.
Director level at UBS is 165 -> 200K base (average 180K base) plus 15K non taxable expenses plus 40K bonus plus employer pension contribution
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  #45  
Old 15.09.2021, 15:04
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Switzerland has become crazy expensive, there is now business case to relocate here for a low end IT job.



Example: 5 1/2 room apartment rent for 4965 CHF /month (no luxury)



https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/warum-s...n-698223428015


high paying banking jobs and google/amazon/microsoft caused a similar situation like in Frisco.
Exactly! People DO NOT realise how expensive thos Country is. Yes, it has great Mountains, Greens and high Qaulity Products.

BUT EXPENSIVE.

No matter how many People I asked and Excels I prepared and even showed People actually living here, I just did not realise the difference between Germany and Switzerland. And sorry, Salaries are higher but the expenses are much more, so the Delta just does not make sense.

I actually had to meet some Finance Professionals here, to take care for some Friends' matters, and they told me that unless you earn real high Salaries here in CH, the income-expenses Ration is much better in Germany.

Actually, with 90K in Germany, I would never think to leave Germany, just my personal opinion.
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  #46  
Old 15.09.2021, 18:24
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Exactly! People DO NOT realise how expensive thos Country is.
Sorry, but literally everyone ever realizes how expensive Switzerland is. We have an entire forum full of complains about it here... simply put: if you are young and single, CH is a great deal as the higher income and low tax work for you. If you have three kids and your cost base is more important than tax rate... then Germany comes out on top any day.
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  #47  
Old 15.09.2021, 18:44
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

Would love to see a full net disposable income analysis of 90k in Munich (come on, OP). I don't think it would be great, assuming you need to arrange housing at today's rates.
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  #48  
Old 15.09.2021, 19:48
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Sorry, but literally everyone ever realizes how expensive Switzerland is. We have an entire forum full of complains about it here... simply put: if you are young and single, CH is a great deal as the higher income and low tax work for you. If you have three kids and your cost base is more important than tax rate... then Germany comes out on top any day.
Agree.
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  #49  
Old 15.09.2021, 19:52
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Would love to see a full net disposable income analysis of 90k in Munich (come on, OP). I don't think it would be great, assuming you need to arrange housing at today's rates.
I will be happy to help him When we just arrived to Germany we lived as a Family of 2 + 2 with just one Salary of 75,000 EUR. Except the Flat Rent, I guess all is same more or less.
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  #50  
Old 15.09.2021, 19:54
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Exactly! People DO NOT realise how expensive thos Country is. Yes, it has great Mountains, Greens and high Qaulity Products.

BUT EXPENSIVE.

No matter how many People I asked and Excels I prepared and even showed People actually living here, I just did not realise the difference between Germany and Switzerland. And sorry, Salaries are higher but the expenses are much more, so the Delta just does not make sense.

I actually had to meet some Finance Professionals here, to take care for some Friends' matters, and they told me that unless you earn real high Salaries here in CH, the income-expenses Ration is much better in Germany.

Actually, with 90K in Germany, I would never think to leave Germany, just my personal opinion.
Couldn't disagree more. Munich is pretty much as expensive as here for rent. Tax is way more, salary is way less. Most other expenses can be mitigated (eg shop in Germany).

I moved from London which I think is similar to Munich as regards tax, rent, and salary levels and we are much, much better off here.
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  #51  
Old 15.09.2021, 19:59
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

Left Germany in early 2008. Memories start to pale, but when I look at today's rents in the larger cities, I wonder how a family can live there on an average salary. Makes a huge difference whether you are on some old contract or need to rent at today's rates. Same here, especially in Zurich, here in SZ quite ok.
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  #52  
Old 15.09.2021, 20:03
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Left Germany in early 2008. Memories start to pale, but when I look at today's rents in the larger cities, I wonder how a family can live there on an average salary. Makes a huge difference whether you are on some old contract or need to rent at today's rates. Same here, especially in Zurich, here in SZ quite ok.
Dont landlords put the rent up? Or is that not done in DE and CH?
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  #53  
Old 15.09.2021, 20:09
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Couldn't disagree more. Munich is pretty much as expensive as here for rent. Tax is way more, salary is way less. Most other expenses can be mitigated (eg shop in Germany).

I moved from London which I think is similar to Munich as regards tax, rent, and salary levels and we are much, much better off here.
How much would you say in the difference in rent between Zurich and Frick for your place? I bet 1000 CHF easily.
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  #54  
Old 15.09.2021, 20:11
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Dont landlords put the rent up? Or is that not done in DE and CH?
Sure, but there are limits how much you can increase. In Germany I believe max. 11% in two years, and you csnnot go above ca. 120% of the average for a comparable rent. And comparable rent is all rents, not just new contracts.

In CH, more importantly, rents are mostly indexed to mortgage rates, beyong owner can roll over investments. I have friends who rent an apartment in Zurich for 2500 which at today's market rates would easily go for 3800.

Last edited by komsomolez; 15.09.2021 at 20:22.
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  #55  
Old 15.09.2021, 20:18
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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How much would you say in the difference in rent between Zurich and Frick for your place? I bet 1000 CHF easily.
To be fair are the differences a lot bigger in Germany. There are many places where life is incredibly cheap. But this thread was on Munich and thats none of those places. I lived in a nicer bit of the country and bought a house there. A 180sqm house on a 600sqm plot in the most desirable community of the county I lived in was cheaper than a 45sqm studio flat in Zurich yes the tax is much higher, but depending on your priorities can the total expenses vary a lot.
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  #56  
Old 15.09.2021, 20:34
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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How much would you say in the difference in rent between Zurich and Frick for your place? I bet 1000 CHF easily.
I don't know Zurich well enough to comment. I am right next to the train station, 3.5 rooms, 100 metres squared, brand new (we Are the first tenants). Underfloor heating etc. So at the very top of the Frick price range for a 3.5

2000 / month.
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Old 15.09.2021, 20:54
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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I don't know Zurich well enough to comment. I am right next to the train station, 3.5 rooms, 100 metres squared, brand new (we Are the first tenants). Underfloor heating etc. So at the very top of the Frick price range for a 3.5

2000 / month.
Same here if you move just outside of Zurich.
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  #58  
Old 15.09.2021, 21:18
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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I don't know Zurich well enough to comment. I am right next to the train station, 3.5 rooms, 100 metres squared, brand new (we Are the first tenants). Underfloor heating etc. So at the very top of the Frick price range for a 3.5

2000 / month.
Ok, so I'd say way more than 1000 difference to comparable in Zurich proper.
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Old 15.09.2021, 22:49
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

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Ok, so I'd say way more than 1000 difference to comparable in Zurich proper.
Easily. We had a 3.5 room 112m2 apartment in the uncool part of Wiedikon when we moved to CH in 2009. That was CHF 2,760 and felt in line with the market. Guessing it would be at least CHF 3,500 now, based on whats on Homegate.
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  #60  
Old 15.09.2021, 23:05
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Re: Equivalent salary 90k Munich to Zurich?

We are deviating, but nevertheless interesting.

We now rent for 3050 CHF, 150 sqm, very modern in Lachen. 30-45 mins from Zurich center. Homegate tells you same is 4500 in Zurich. At worse tax.
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