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-   -   Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/305939-quick-question-salary-wise-contractor-permanent.html)

marcocoz 28.09.2021 20:11

Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
What would be the equivalent of a 900CHF daily contract against a perm one? :confused:

bowlie 28.09.2021 20:20

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocoz (Post 3351830)
What would be the equivalent of a 900CHF daily contract against a perm one? :confused:

Not enough information. Is this McDonalds? Or Louis Vuitton?

marcocoz 28.09.2021 21:50

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
does it make difference in term of taxation between mcdonalds or private bank?
besides, it is in finance for private banks.

ZuriRollt 28.09.2021 22:12

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocoz (Post 3351830)
What would be the equivalent of a 900CHF daily contract against a perm one? :confused:

If you get a CHF 900.- daily fee in Switzerland as an external (nowadays), then you must be very qualified. Let us know what profession you are in!

NotAllThere 28.09.2021 22:15

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocoz (Post 3351830)
What would be the equivalent of a 900CHF daily contract against a perm one? :confused:

For a standard IT contact it's slightly higher than the usual rate. Equivalent to a permanent job of maybe 130k?

marcocoz 28.09.2021 22:18

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 3351869)
For a standard IT contact it's slightly higher than the usual rate. Equivalent to a permanent job of maybe 130k?

uhm, honestly I thought it would have been a bit higher.

so for 150K perm total compensation, how much should the daily rate be for a contractor?

marcocoz 28.09.2021 22:19

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuriRollt (Post 3351868)
If you get a CHF 900.- daily fee in Switzerland as an external (nowadays), then you must be very qualified. Let us know what profession you are in!

Just software engineering in the finance industry

ZuriRollt 28.09.2021 22:21

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 3351869)
For a standard IT contact it's slightly higher than the usual rate. Equivalent to a permanent job of maybe 130k?

That really depends on the skill set and experience. You need to be very skilled and have good experience to hit 130‘000 p.a nowadays (bonus excluded)

ZuriRollt 28.09.2021 22:25

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocoz (Post 3351872)
Just software engineering in the finance industry

Well, that puts you into a pot with many, many others. You‘ll need to be more specific if you want more info.

Never TheLess 28.09.2021 22:40

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocoz (Post 3351871)
uhm, honestly I thought it would have been a bit higher.

so for 150K perm total compensation, how much should the daily rate be for a contractor?

That was my rate at UBS until late 2019, so 15-16k take home per month. Then after some years they wanted to onboard me at 120k 'plus bonus', *think 6k*. I left for a perm job elsewhere paying much more.

ZuriRollt 28.09.2021 23:12

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Never TheLess (Post 3351880)
That was my rate at UBS until late 2019, so 15-16k take home per month. Then after some years they wanted to onboard me at 120k 'plus bonus', *think 6k*. I left for a perm job elsewhere paying much more.

Yes, that was also my going rate as a contractor (or more). But you need to calculate in all your additional costs / losses due to all the costs you need to carry yourself.

Never TheLess 29.09.2021 15:51

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuriRollt (Post 3351889)
Yes, that was also my going rate as a contractor (or more). But you need to calculate in all your additional costs / losses due to all the costs you need to carry yourself.

Those numbers were net, just letting the OP know that any perm offer is likely to be substantially lower.

marcocoz 30.09.2021 14:59

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Never TheLess (Post 3352063)
Those numbers were net, just letting the OP know that any perm offer is likely to be substantially lower.

sorry but how much was your daily rate for reaching 16K net mark per month? with 900CHF after tax you might get 2/3 of that sum.

Besides, can't see why the offer you so little for a perm position :confused:

Never TheLess 30.09.2021 19:08

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocoz (Post 3352327)
sorry but how much was your daily rate for reaching 16K net mark per month? with 900CHF after tax you might get 2/3 of that sum.

Besides, can't see why the offer you so little for a perm position :confused:

Sorry, yes I should have said take home, I get the yearly tax bill. I had a previous offer at a different offer at a higher grade which I accepted, then France asked for a 5 billion settlement and hiring was frozen but my contract was extended. Later I got the new offer and which I didn't accept.

marcofbbr 09.10.2021 20:36

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocoz (Post 3351864)
does it make difference in term of taxation between mcdonalds or private bank?
besides, it is in finance for private banks.

no, it doesn't. The conversion you are asking for can be easily calculated( with some degree of flexibility) by an accountant or somebody who deal with this stuff on daily basis.

EDIT: the conversion I am was referring to in my statement above is the brutto cost to the company for a specific employee including all the benefits. That should be the starting point to determine the equivalent rate for a contractor with skills similar to the employees (excluding the risk of a short term contract). The risk factor and contract lenght should push the value higher and if you bring more skills that are not easily available in the market, then you can even push the rate to a higher value......and it also becomes a matter of negotiating your skills with the customer.

I received offers of around 800Fr per day when I had a permanent contract with a slary of 125K per year..just to give you a reference. But I believe the rate should be 900+ like somebody else mentioned here.

Harrie Nak 10.10.2021 11:34

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuriRollt (Post 3351868)
If you get a CHF 900.- daily fee in Switzerland as an external (nowadays), then you must be very qualified. Let us know what profession you are in!

Average rate for an IT contractor in the city.

k_and_e 10.10.2021 11:59

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocoz (Post 3351830)
What would be the equivalent of a 900CHF daily contract against a perm one? :confused:

900 CHF rate is approx. 730 CHF net per day. This gives a 150k-160k annual salary.

debriefer 10.10.2021 15:43

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
do your calc:
900 x working days
- 900x days off (vacation)
- 900x sick days
- 900x days your client doesn't need you (e.g. Xmas office shutdown, project stalling, etc.)
- your taxes/deductions
= your take home


I've seen contractor doing on average between 180 and 210 billable days per year

euler 13.10.2021 16:51

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
The rule of thumb is: take the desired salary per year, multiply it by 1.5 (can be a bit lower if you are young, in good health), and that is the invoiced sum you should go for.

It really depends on the amount of days you work. In some banks and some departments, it is not uncommon, that they run out of the budget before the end of the year, and the contractors have to stay home. The days you have to stay home sick do not count either. Visiting doctor for a check? No pay. Sick child? Guess what.

Then, think about your working status (self-employed, employed through own ltd., employed through payroll agency, ...), your age, etc.

So let's assume 200 billable days, that makes 180k invoiced per year.

As self-employed, you pay around 10% social security (AHV/IV), you don't have unemployment insurance, and you don't have to pay yourself second pillar (but you can), you shall pay Unfallversicherung for both occupational and non-occupational risks (SUVA), probably some liability insurance, KVG... This can take quite some portion of the invoiced salary. Plus administrative costs.
As payrolled employee the invoiced sum has to cover "employer's" part of the insurances and administration (the payroll companies charge something around 5% of the invoice). Probably the biggest effect is your age, as BVG payments differ quite significantly based on the age.

Also, as a contractor, you have tons of hidden costs that the core employees do have, like paying full price for meals in the canteen, paying full price for the parking, etc. Moreover, banks tend to pay A LOT into BVG to their employees (I've heard even about additional 20% of the salary, but I can't confirm that). Not the contractors, of course.

So the equivalent would be really like 120-130k employee on the same position.

NotAllThere 13.10.2021 18:29

Re: Quick question salary wise contractor/permanent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by euler (Post 3355856)
As self-employed, you pay around 10% social security (AHV/IV), you don't have unemployment insurance,

Many contractors are not self-employed. They either work through a payroll company or their own gmbh.


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