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Old 30.09.2021, 15:07
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C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

Hi, is it true that a person with C-permit usually will get higher salary than the one with B-permit, even though both persons have the same background like the same position, education, working experience, nationality etc.. ??
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Old 30.09.2021, 15:18
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

I once saw a statistic that said, yes, people with a B permit earn on average less than a C permit and C permits earn less than a foreigner that completed the naturalisation process.

However, consider this.

On average a B-Permit holder has just arrived in CH. This means this is their first job here. Of course there are plenty of high level expats that fall in this category... but the Swiss job market has its own rules and coming in the market from outside is harder than move within.

A C-Permit holder has been here at least five year up to 10, 20 or more. They had chances to change roles, they know the swiss market and they can negotiate their salary better.

Same goes for a naturalised foreigner. They have been here at least 12-13 years.
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Old 30.09.2021, 15:18
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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Hi, is it true that a person with C-permit usually will get higher salary than the one with B-permit, even though both persons have the same background like the same position, education, working experience, nationality etc.. ??
No, there is absolutely no relation between permit type and salary.

Perhaps your confusion and the illusion of more money comes from a B permit holder having to pay withholding tax and a C permit holder not, so they would get out 'more' money at the end of the month. But taxes are taxes, you still have to pay them whether you have withholding tax or not.
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Old 30.09.2021, 15:28
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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No, there is absolutely no relation between permit type and salary.

Perhaps your confusion the illusion of more money comes from a B permit holder having to pay withholding tax and a C permit holder not, so they would get out 'more' money at the end of the month. But taxes are taxes, you still have to pay them whether you have withholding tax or not.
I found some statistics estimate the salary, it seems the salary indeed correlates to the permit. I think C-permit has more freedom to choose the employer so that they can negotiate a better salary, while B-permit sometimes have to take the offer otherwise they have to leave this country...
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Old 30.09.2021, 15:30
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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I once saw a statistic that said, yes, people with a B permit earn on average less than a C permit and C permits earn less than a foreigner that completed the naturalisation process.

However, consider this.

On average a B-Permit holder has just arrived in CH. This means this is their first job here. Of course there are plenty of high level expats that fall in this category... but the Swiss job market has its own rules and coming in the market from outside is harder than move within.

A C-Permit holder has been here at least five year up to 10, 20 or more. They had chances to change roles, they know the swiss market and they can negotiate their salary better.

Same goes for a naturalised foreigner. They have been here at least 12-13 years.

So will people start to negotiate a better salary with their boss after changing to C-permit?
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Old 30.09.2021, 15:34
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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So will people start to negotiate a better salary with their boss after changing to C-permit?
Using only the fact that they suddenly have a C-permit?

The answer is no.
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Old 30.09.2021, 15:38
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

B permits have taxes withheld by their employer, C permits do not. (And their are exceptions to any rule).

This doesn’t mean the C’s pay no, or less, taxes they just pay it directly.
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Old 30.09.2021, 16:04
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

This is easy to verify using Salarium.

For an example, non-manager working in finance in Zurich - C is about 400CHF/month higher than B. For teachers, it is over 700CHF/month.

https://www.gate.bfs.admin.ch/salari...urSalaryCode=0

https://www.gate.bfs.admin.ch/salari...urSalaryCode=0
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Old 30.09.2021, 16:12
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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I found some statistics estimate the salary, it seems the salary indeed correlates to the permit. I think C-permit has more freedom to choose the employer so that they can negotiate a better salary, while B-permit sometimes have to take the offer otherwise they have to leave this country...
Yes, I agree that they have more negotiation power, but if we go back to the original post, you say with same experience, qualifications, in the same position, then no, there is no reason to have a higher salary. At one point I had an L permit and earned the exact same annual salary as a C-permit holder and even a Swiss person in the same position and at points perhaps even more than the same position in other companies.

I work for a large company and do a lot of the recruiting, we have set bands for specific levels and where you sit in this band depends on qualifications, experience etc. but never once have I seen a person go into a lower scale on the salary band based on a permit type.
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Old 30.09.2021, 16:54
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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Hi, is it true that a person with C-permit usually will get higher salary than the one with B-permit, even though both persons have the same background like the same position, education, working experience, nationality etc.. ??
Net salary, yes. But the one with the c-permit will get the big tax bill every year.
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Old 30.09.2021, 20:38
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

As indicated above the longer you spend in a place the more opportunities/ connections you're exposed to.

It's only logical that you end up earning more and that the stats reflect that.

It doesn't mean however a company will make a different salary offer according to your B/ C permit.

It's more or less like renting flats: the first ones are - under normal circumstances - worse than the next ones once you're properly settled in the country/ town.
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Old 30.09.2021, 20:48
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

If you think that the data from salarium are only a statistical flick (few hundreds francs over a range of 80-150k francs), try to check the discrepancy between men and women ...

Gender politics apart, please consider :
  • C-holder are on average at least 5 years older than B-holder. With age, salary increases (especially for job partially related to the public sector, like teachers)
  • Under the category B-holder there are quite some hired from abroad, with permit linked to their actual job, so small negotiation power there

So the difference may reside in the population, rather than in the permit type. A bit like "statistically more criminals are foreigns", yes, sure, for many countries it is a statistically sound affirmation, however try to check "statistically more poor people commit crimes" and "statistically more foreign people are poor" and it takes a different spin (disclaimer: I do not condone crime, apart from international corporate tax elusion funding a decent system of public transport here in Switzerland )
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Old 30.09.2021, 21:19
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

It is easier to walk out of a job with C hence possible, but never heard of this...
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Old 30.09.2021, 21:35
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

I'm leaving a chart displaying average age of B/C permit holders:



There's a significant larger amount of B-holders versus C-holders in their twenties while the tendence reverses after the age of 30/ 35 years.

If we compared salary by just using permit then we'd arrive to the conclusion that C-holders earn more but it's actually all about age/ experience rather than permit.

You can play with the data using this link:

https://www.pxweb.bfs.admin.ch/pxweb...010000_101.px/

Last edited by javito; 30.09.2021 at 22:01. Reason: changed image server
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Old 30.09.2021, 23:22
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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If you think that the data from salarium are only a statistical flick (few hundreds francs over a range of 80-150k francs), try to check the discrepancy between men and women ...

Gender politics apart, please consider :
  • C-holder are on average at least 5 years older than B-holder. With age, salary increases (especially for job partially related to the public sector, like teachers)
  • Under the category B-holder there are quite some hired from abroad, with permit linked to their actual job, so small negotiation power there

So the difference may reside in the population, rather than in the permit type. A bit like "statistically more criminals are foreigns", yes, sure, for many countries it is a statistically sound affirmation, however try to check "statistically more poor people commit crimes" and "statistically more foreign people are poor" and it takes a different spin (disclaimer: I do not condone crime, apart from international corporate tax elusion funding a decent system of public transport here in Switzerland )
But in Salarium when you setup all the parameters, it will give you a list of salaries for different permits, and they are different... So age, education, working years etc.. are all the same but C-permit have several hundreds of CHF more per month than B-permit.

https://www.gate.bfs.admin.ch/salari...urSalaryCode=0
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Old 30.09.2021, 23:57
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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But in Salarium when you setup all the parameters, it will give you a list of salaries for different permits, and they are different... So age, education, working years etc.. are all the same but C-permit have several hundreds of CHF more per month than B-permit.
Stats 101: Be careful of assuming causation with a random variable.

While one may see differences when filtering for permit status, one cannot assume that permit status causes the difference.

A rather more likely explanation, as other posters have pointed out, is that because permit status generally correlates to longer time spent in Switzerland, someone holding a C permit likely has a better understanding of the Swiss market, of Swiss negotiation practices, has developed better Swiss networking skills, and other Swiss-specific soft skills that could add value.

It's the combination of those factors that more likely result in ability to negotiate higher salaries.
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Old 01.10.2021, 01:53
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Stats 101: Be careful of assuming causation with a random variable.

While one may see differences when filtering for permit status, one cannot assume that permit status causes the difference.

A rather more likely explanation, as other posters have pointed out, is that because permit status generally correlates to longer time spent in Switzerland, someone holding a C permit likely has a better understanding of the Swiss market, of Swiss negotiation practices, has developed better Swiss networking skills, and other Swiss-specific soft skills that could add value.

It's the combination of those factors that more likely result in ability to negotiate higher salaries.

So should a person negotiate for higher salary after changing from B permit to C permit? Causality is not important here, the key is whether people can use C permit as a good argument to ask for better salary from his boss. Assuming nobody did this, then B permit should have similar salary as C permit because they only changed a card to a paper (now C permit is also a card of course), unless they moved to other employer offering better salary... But in the link in my last post the difference in month salary between B and C is only about 400 CHF which is about 5000 CHF per year, such a little difference is not convincing for me to change employer....

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Stats 101: Be careful of assuming causation with a random variable.

While one may see differences when filtering for permit status, one cannot assume that permit status causes the difference.

A rather more likely explanation, as other posters have pointed out, is that because permit status generally correlates to longer time spent in Switzerland, someone holding a C permit likely has a better understanding of the Swiss market, of Swiss negotiation practices, has developed better Swiss networking skills, and other Swiss-specific soft skills that could add value.

It's the combination of those factors that more likely result in ability to negotiate higher salaries.

BTW, people usually hold B permit for 5 or 10 years before changing to C. So many B permit person especially those with more than 5 years working experience should have similar networking skills etc .. Have you ever tried salarium? In that system all the variables are the same but only different permits are different but salary is different.

Last edited by roegner; 01.10.2021 at 04:35. Reason: Merging threads
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Old 01.10.2021, 07:16
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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people usually hold B permit for 5 or 10 years before changing to C. So many B permit person especially those with more than 5 years working experience should have similar networking skills etc ..
Correlation does not imply causation.


If you there is a correlation you need to find and prove the mechanism by which a B permit produces a lower salary. Finding the correlation isn't sufficient.



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So should a person negotiate for higher salary after changing from B permit to C permit?
No. You'll be laughed out of the managers office.

The apparent higher pay of C permit holders to B permit holders is not because C permit holders get a pay rise on acquisition.
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Old 01.10.2021, 07:26
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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So should a person negotiate for higher salary after changing from B permit to C permit?
Yes, absolutely, but not with the current employer: a person with a C permit can afford the luxus of rescinding his/her current contract and looking for a job somewhere else in Switzerland.

Hey, even if coming from outside the EU they may even have access to unemployment money, without risking becoming illegal during the three months of "frist".

This means that C holder have way more power, but not directly with the current employer.

On the other hand, if you were a woman, and you would transgender to being a man ...
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Old 01.10.2021, 08:41
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Re: C-permit has higher salary than B-permit??

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Correlation does not imply causation.


If you there is a correlation you need to find and prove the mechanism by which a B permit produces a lower salary. Finding the correlation isn't sufficient.








No. You'll be laughed out of the managers office.

The apparent higher pay of C permit holders to B permit holders is not because C permit holders get a pay rise on acquisition.


Please note I said permit correlates to the salary in my previous post....As a person holds some degree in statistics and working in this field for a while in this country, I am happy to see more and more people are clear about correlation and causality....Maybe you would also like to know more about association, correlation and causality? I can recommend this paper: Altman, N., Krzywinski, M. Association, correlation and causation. Nature Methods 12, 899–900 (2015). https://doi.org/10.1038/nmeth.3587

I cannot prove C permit can cause better salary, but would like to think potential links between them. As I said, for me the 400 CHF difference between B and C in salarium is unlikely to be explained by just changing employer...
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