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Old 03.10.2021, 01:01
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100k CHF starting salary realistic?

If I graduate from ST.Gallen, MiQE/F masters degree and work in finance/data analyst positions, would it be unrealistic to expect around 100k CHF a year? I currently have work experience as an intern, and planning to keep working during my masters. Expected to have about 2-3 years of experience after graduating.
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Old 03.10.2021, 06:32
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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If I graduate from ST.Gallen, MiQE/F masters degree and work in finance/data analyst positions, would it be unrealistic to expect around 100k CHF a year? I currently have work experience as an intern, and planning to keep working during my masters. Expected to have about 2-3 years of experience after graduating.
I believe so. Not because of your experience, but due to demand.
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Old 03.10.2021, 07:06
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

Around 100k, give or take a little, sounds right taking into account education and experience and size of the company.
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Old 03.10.2021, 09:08
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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If I graduate from ST.Gallen, MiQE/F masters degree and work in finance/data analyst positions, would it be unrealistic to expect around 100k CHF a year? I currently have work experience as an intern, and planning to keep working during my masters. Expected to have about 2-3 years of experience after graduating.
Maybe, maybe not.. as someone who worked in the sector for over 30 years I could not recommend it.

The only job that needs to be on site in Europe is sales. There is no reason beyond tradition to have areas like so called data science, financial analysis, accounting and so on sitting in an expensive location. And with the emphasis on cost it is only a matter of time until we get to the same level of off shoring in these services as we have in IT. The financial services sector has been slowly contracting in Europe for well over a decade and how quickly it progresses over the next few years will depend on the state of the economy.
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Old 03.10.2021, 09:22
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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Maybe, maybe not.. as someone who worked in the sector for over 30 years I could not recommend it.

The only job that needs to be on site in Europe is sales. There is no reason beyond tradition to have areas like so called data science, financial analysis, accounting and so on sitting in an expensive location. And with the emphasis on cost it is only a matter of time until we get to the same level of off shoring in these services as we have in IT. The financial services sector has been slowly contracting in Europe for well over a decade and how quickly it progresses over the next few years will depend on the state of the economy.
There are plenty of opportunities for data science roles on-site in Switzerland, these skills are HIGHLY sought after and in low supply among the more mature workforce. In addition, I think that you are overstating the level of outsourcing that is going on. Yes, things like financial payroll, service centers and bulk analytics tasks are being outsourced, but the demand for highly skilled data analytics staff with good critical thinking skills in Switzerland is still high for a variety of roles in the Big 4, banks, insurance etc.

If I had a masters in finance and data science from a good university like St- Gallen then I would not be worried about finding a job in Switzerland.
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Old 03.10.2021, 10:02
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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Maybe, maybe not.. as someone who worked in the sector for over 30 years I could not recommend it.

The only job that needs to be on site in Europe is sales. There is no reason beyond tradition to have areas like so called data science, financial analysis, accounting and so on sitting in an expensive location. And with the emphasis on cost it is only a matter of time until we get to the same level of off shoring in these services as we have in IT. The financial services sector has been slowly contracting in Europe for well over a decade and how quickly it progresses over the next few years will depend on the state of the economy.
Welcome to the forum
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Old 03.10.2021, 13:34
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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If I graduate from ST.Gallen, MiQE/F masters degree and work in finance/data analyst positions, would it be unrealistic to expect around 100k CHF a year? I currently have work experience as an intern, and planning to keep working during my master's. Expected to have about 2-3 years of experience after graduating.
Finance service delivery models across big multinationals are evolving to retain strategic/high-value jobs in Switzerland, usually termed as "Finance Business Partners". Jobs that are operational or technical in nature are being organized together in entities such as the Center of Excellence or Shared Service Centers, in relatively low-cost locations. These entities provide their services globally to multinational business affiliates.

Doing so optimizes the service delivery model by achieving standardization, automation, and elimination of certain activities.

Data / Finance analyst jobs usually fall in the scope of these entities.

Having said the above, there are Swiss companies, banks, investment funds etc. who may retain these jobs in Switzerland mainly because either they don't have a large global footprint or do not mirror the same delivery model.
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Old 03.10.2021, 15:57
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

Data science is one of the strategic areas published by ETH for 2021-2024 so I'd say it is likely to have a future
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Old 03.10.2021, 17:45
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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Data science is one of the strategic areas published by ETH for 2021-2024 so I'd say it is likely to have a future
That is until they write an AI code which will automate the "dirty" 90% part of DS work, which is already happening.
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Old 03.10.2021, 18:22
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Thank you for the replies!

While outsourcing might be happening I still see a lot of job posts that are on site in Zürich, so I think that is not an issue for a good while.

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Thank you for the replies!

While outsourcing might be happening I still see a lot of job posts that are on site in Zürich, so I think that is not an issue for a good while.
It's good to know tho that 100k is not that unrealistic, I asked on some different forums before and people said that's way too high:/

Not sure if I can edit comments here, so I'm double posting, sorry.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 03.10.2021 at 19:44. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 03.10.2021, 19:25
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

You are worth what somebody is willing to pay you, no more, no less
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Old 04.10.2021, 15:20
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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Data science is one of the strategic areas published by ETH for 2021-2024 so I'd say it is likely to have a future
Well, ETH will hardly write „don’t study tech, the banks are moving those jobs to India anyways”…
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Old 04.10.2021, 16:05
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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Well, ETH will hardly write „don’t study tech, the banks are moving those jobs to India anyways”…
More like they are bringing India here.
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Old 04.10.2021, 16:11
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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Data science is one of the strategic areas published by ETH for 2021-2024 so I'd say it is likely to have a future
We were doing data science 20+ years ago and AI as well, we just did not have a name for it... just like we always did agile etc.... the only thing that is new about this stuff is the name and the people doing it.

Back in the old days, there was a need to have people sitting close to the source because we did not have the comms capability we have today [back in the early 90s we used to have to lease satellite links etc]. Most of the data used in the so called data science is anonymised data so even the legal reasons are removed. If it is cheaper it will be done else where, only the timing of when it will is the issue.
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Old 04.10.2021, 16:13
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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More like they are bringing India here.
Oh that is a lot closer to the bone than you think. A very good friend of mine is the head of administration at a well known business school and he is always on about the challenge of finding students and marketing profile of the college etc...
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Old 04.10.2021, 16:22
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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Having said the above, there are Swiss companies, banks, investment funds etc. who may retain these jobs in Switzerland mainly because either they don't have a large global footprint or do not mirror the same delivery model.
OR data employees exposed to is client/customer related and certain swiss rules apply
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Old 04.10.2021, 16:32
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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We were doing data science 20+ years ago and AI as well, we just did not have a name for it... just like we always did agile etc.... the only thing that is new about this stuff is the name and the people doing it.
I dont know how to bring this to you... but agile was called "agile" 20 years ago... yeah, getting old. Me too.

The upside is that the banking industry already changes a lot and will do so even more in the coming 10-20 years.
1. "they will all outsource all the non-essential jobs to low cost countries" is what I have been told 20 years ago and it didnt really happen. What did happen was that companies tried, failed massively, moved everything back and tried again a few years later. Its always the same arguments why it should work and in the end does not... and I predict that these waves will come and go for quite some time.

2. Id argue that a lot of the banking sector will change a lot more than just moving some people to wherever it is cheap. There is already and will be even more a wave of fintechs, wealth tech, insure tech and what not else - start-ups that can actually make use of the modern technologies. Yes, we did have data science 20 years ago. The principles I learned in college are the exact same today. But back then did only the software license for a DWH cost a bank a seven digit number a year... technology that is by now available and accessible for even the tiniest start-up at beer money prices. So I think it will be a hot skill set to have in the coming decade or two. Nobody really knows what will happen then...
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Old 05.10.2021, 08:35
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

I wouldn't be that afraid of outsourcing for lower costs, most of the companies who tried it, failed for various reasons, but often due to lack of standardization and controls.Today with MD rates in Eastern europe going up, it makes even less sense to try it from cost perspective alone.
Not saying that moving ops to other country can't happen these days, but is less likely to be for costs alone, would be more for lack of available skillset in home market.



Lates trend is pushing all infra to the cloud, some even call it "Outsorcing 2.0".

Will it work this time? Nobody knows, but chances are definitely higher, as cloud will more or less force you to standardize and give you something you never had before - end-to-end costs visibility.


So whatever you do in IT these days, make sure you get your hand on one or the other clouds and you should be fine.
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Old 05.10.2021, 11:03
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

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I dont know how to bring this to you... but agile was called "agile" 20 years ago... yeah, getting old. Me too.
That makes you a lot younger that me then.

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1. "they will all outsource all the non-essential jobs to low cost countries" is what I have been told 20 years ago and it didnt really happen.
When I started a certain big bank employed about 7,000 contractors and by the time I got out it was down to less that 2,000 with a Swiss staff reduction of about 24,000 staff And contract rates for the average Joe or Mary, not specialists, went from around CHF 200 down to about CHF 70 - 90

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2. Id argue that a lot of the banking sector will change a lot more than just moving some people to wherever it is cheap.
It will, it will contract further. Probably we will end up with about 8 top tier banks and a further say 15 second tier, with many of the smaller ones becoming name plates. The banks are not making the kind of money that is expected of them, they have been on a race to the bottom which has turned them into a commodity industry and the next step is consolidation. Even UBS/CS have admitted they have had preliminary discussions.

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There is already and will be even more a wave of fintechs, wealth tech, insure tech and what not else - start-ups that can actually make use of the modern technologies.
.
Like i said, all that has changed are the names and the people doing it. I sit down with some of these guys about once a month and there is nothing new there. They are still building the same stuff as everyone else - portfolio management systems, stock analysis systems, financial modelling, economic models etc... and in many cases they are not do as well because the kids building them have no experience or knowledge.
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Old 05.10.2021, 11:27
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Re: 100k CHF starting salary realistic?

as someone outside the industry, i wonder whether the banks are at risk of becoming a commodity and forced to open up and deal with all the hard regulatory stuff whlie fintechs build on top of them and take a premium.
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