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Old 25.05.2023, 08:08
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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A liberal arts degree is among the best investments one can do in ones life. Having the wide mindset and framework that can be applied to learn ANYTHING after that beats the narrow focus of a specialized undergrad. I'd happily repeat the liberal arts degree I had with the specialized masters and PhD later on. On top, liberal art graduates tend to be much more exciting people to talk to over a beer
Exciting?, Liberal arts graduates seem to delight in picking up the wrong end of the stick and then chewing on it for hours.
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Old 25.05.2023, 08:15
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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A liberal arts degree is among the best investments one can do in ones life. Having the wide mindset and framework that can be applied to learn ANYTHING after that beats the narrow focus of a specialized undergrad.
I'd say this holds for physics - way before I would for liberal arts.
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Old 25.05.2023, 08:41
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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That said, the IT industry is still ran by people who don't have degree's, who employ people who do have degree's.
Still trying to understand why anyone would need an degree for IT
I guess it depends what sort of job you do in IT. Help desk support, sure you don't need a degree. But, you know if you did have a degree you would not only understand what you needed to do, but why.

I worked in IT for decades, most of my peers had degrees as indeed I do. But wait, bc its is an industry that came out of nowhere, so its unsurprising that its full of individuals who don't have any qualiications, just "experience".

Smaller companies frequently cannot afford or perhaps want to pay IT salaries, so they employ self certified IT experts like yourself mostly. Qualified IT professionals work for big blue chips like Nestle.

But hey this thread is going astray. You don't need a degree to get a good job in Switzerland; but there are plenty of people here; natives who have grown up locally with perfect language skills, social fits, with contacts left, right and centre who will get the jobs without degrees, you won't.

To change countries you need to have qualifications or some very specific skills to be accepted. I speak from experience having been born in the UK, worked in France, Italy and settled in Switzerland. I could not have done that without a degree in Computer science I gained about a decade after the industry was born.
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Old 25.05.2023, 08:57
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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On top, liberal art graduates tend to be much more exciting people to talk to over a beer
Just as long as you're paying as they're not able to get a job
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Old 25.05.2023, 09:15
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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Ha haaa. In high school during the early 90s, I took a two-year "vocational computer course" and we learned programming via COBOL, never worked with a mouse, learned accounting via journal ledgers and did everything on the computer via DOS. Soon after I graduated, almost everything I learned in that class became entirely obsolete.

COBOL was never meant to be a proper programming language. In the late 1950s early 60s, due to a lack of any standard language, it was finally used out of dire desperation. But by the time the 90s rolled around much better languages were in usage. Can only think that COBOL courses were still around due to all the old mainframes that would soon be abandoned during the decade.
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Old 25.05.2023, 09:17
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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Just as long as you're paying as they're not able to get a job
Do languages count there? Then laugh on TC… a lot of people in my area of work have language degrees and make good money.

Last edited by roegner; 25.05.2023 at 09:37.
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  #67  
Old 25.05.2023, 09:18
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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Exciting?, Liberal arts graduates seem to delight in picking up the wrong end of the stick and then chewing on it for hours.

Without liberal arts there would be no culture. Which in fact does seem to be the case more so these days.
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Old 25.05.2023, 09:23
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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I guess it depends what sort of job you do in IT.
This.


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Help desk support, sure you don't need a degree. But, you know if you did have a degree you would not only understand what you needed to do, but why.
In Switzerland they have apprenticeships in IT and lower level IT jobs jobs are usually filled by the locals who do have a "degree" of a sort.
All the people who work in IT (that I know) have a STEM degree. (with the "notable exceptions" of some boomers top managers who have built a career before the IT became what it is now and who'll gradually retire) Those who work in finance and accounting have a tertiary-education degree in these fields. There are exceptions, sure. But it's a very competitive market and you're not even considered for a job if you don't present yourself with some sort of credentials.

Also, the "useless degrees" (in social sciences) as people call them here can lead one to entry-level jobs in HR, customer care, finance, administrative/secretarial jobs etc. So they're not as useless as some here have deemed them to be.
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Old 25.05.2023, 09:41
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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But hey this thread is going astray. You don't need a degree to get a good job in Switzerland; but there are plenty of people here; natives who have grown up locally with perfect language skills, social fits, with contacts left, right and centre who will get the jobs without degrees, you won't.
And most of the local people have done a three or four year apprenticeship...

My daughter-in-law starts a new job in customer services for a distributor of fine arts materials next month. She did a four year commercial apprenticeship, covering all the commercial - accounting, marketing, HR, commercial law etc as well as math, German, French, English etc...

That is the kind of background the locals have when they take up these non degree requiring jobs.
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Old 25.05.2023, 10:02
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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Do languages count there? Then laugh on TC… a lot of people in my area of work have language degrees and make good money.
Just smile, ignore and...repeat.
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Old 25.05.2023, 10:03
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Do languages count there? Then laugh on TC… a lot of people in my area of work have language degrees and make good money.
Firstly, it was a joke. People can study what they like, however the world doesn't owe them a living and it's no use complaining later if their degree doesn't get them the job or compensation that they expect.

Secondly, I would say language degrees are some of the most pointless degrees one can take. Unless there is a real passion for language there is so many more worthwhile subjects one can study. Almost every professional I have worked with in Switzerland has a degree in a specialized field and can speak 2-3 languages to business level on the side.
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Old 25.05.2023, 10:15
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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Secondly, I would say language degrees are some of the most pointless degrees one can take. Unless there is a real passion for language there is so many more worthwhile subjects one can study.
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Old 25.05.2023, 10:17
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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Secondly, I would say language degrees are some of the most pointless degrees one can take. Unless there is a real passion for language there is so many more worthwhile subjects one can study. Almost every professional I have worked with in Switzerland has a degree in a specialized field and can speak 2-3 languages to business level on the side.

You understand that "studying languages" is not only studying the grammar and pronunciation right? It's also studying the history and culture which tends to produce exceptional diplomats and sales people.
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Old 25.05.2023, 10:26
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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You understand that "studying languages" is not only studying the grammar and pronunciation right? It's also studying the history and culture which tends to produce exceptional diplomats and sales people.
My boss at the time was a former history teacher. His last post was as ambassador in Washington.

It simply depends on the person and what that person does with their studies.
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Old 25.05.2023, 10:48
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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You understand that "studying languages" is not only studying the grammar and pronunciation right? It's also studying the history and culture which tends to produce exceptional diplomats and sales people.
Yes, which is why I said "unless there is a real passion for language(s)". There aren't too many jobs going as diplomats or in the EU parliament and out in the real world, aside from teaching knowing the finer points of Friedrich Schiller and Guy de Maupassant qualify you for little more than flipping burgers.
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Old 25.05.2023, 11:09
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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Yes, which is why I said "unless there is a real passion for language(s)". There aren't too many jobs going as diplomats or in the EU parliament and out in the real world, aside from teaching knowing the finer points of Friedrich Schiller and Guy de Maupassant qualify you for little more than flipping burgers.
Btw, your post is quite telling of the risks associated with a narrow degree: inability to think outside of the narrow framework of your narrow field. Precisely what a liberal arts degree is designed to avoid. Equip people with tools and processes for critical thinking and give them a critical mass of already formed knowledge and then let them loose to figure out what they can and want to do. A degree isn't destiny, this is determined much more by the personality. However, a narrow, specialized degree is exactly this: narrow.

I'd hate to have graduated in maths (which I wanted) as an undergrad before realizing I'm pretty good at it, but it's not what I want to do, which I figured out only later on.
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Old 25.05.2023, 11:17
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

I think a degree is a degree; sure some jobs want specific subjects, but many don't. I think taking a degree gives you more time to grow up and know what is and isn't important to you; which in itself is valuable to an employer.

A degree as another poster pointed out on a different thread is "brain training" as well. Your mind is just like your muscles, taking a degree forces you to use it more than those that don't.

My daughter loves languages and studies them, much of what she does at Gymnasium level is about analysis and interpretation; transferable skills; isn't that exactly what HR does with CVs? They read between the lines.

I think the question is answered; no a degree isn't mandatory, but without it you're going to find yourself swimming upstream.
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Old 25.05.2023, 12:22
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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Almost every professional I have worked with in Switzerland has a degree in a specialized field and can speak 2-3 languages to business level on the side.
And, how do you think I learned the extra languages? Could it be.....coaching by people with pointless degrees?
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Old 25.05.2023, 12:44
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

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And, how do you think I learned the extra languages? Could it be.....coaching by people with pointless degrees?
They probably didn't have a languages degree though.

https://migros-gruppe.jobs/de/unsere...293065b#skills

https://migros-gruppe.jobs/de/unsere...ec4ff31#skills
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Old 25.05.2023, 13:33
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Re: Is it a degree mandatory, in order to find a job in switzerland, and live a good

So, every professional you've met in CH that speaks 2-3 languages learned in Klubschule Migros?

I have that profile and a bit different story. I mastered my mother language (Spanish) at school with teachers with degrees. Then, learned English from people with degrees. Came to Switzerland and learned French from people with degrees. Simply because broke student and the courses at the university institute for languages were included in the 60 CHF semester fee. My puny attempts at learning German were at ECAP here in Aargau with a retired elementary school teacher that still works part-time. Not a degree in "languages" but someone who thought children to master German around here.

Time to show our cards. I do have a degree that's why I say it helps to live a more comfortable life. What's your situation? Living a comfortable life without a degree and learned a Swiss national language at Migros? Just tell it. It would be quite interesting if you or your spouse do have a degree, nice incomes, while telling us it's not necessary just to play the contrarian.
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