Looking at Klubschule, the intensive courses are only three mornings a week, each one is in two parts of a month each.

So in principle you can do A1 to B1 in six months, and have two other mornings to do your specific training and five afternoons to look for a job.

There also is not a big demand for those skills either and while the RAV is fairly flexible at the start, they will require you to broaden your search and consider options as time progresses.

That makes a bit more sense as normally they don’t offer to pay for language courses until you have been job hunting for a while and it is evident that you are failing due to not knowing the language.

But reporting learning German as a job search activity and then not having much to back it could be problematic as it goes to trust. So you better get it sorted out PDQ and be careful from here on out as they may decide to do some random checks on you.

As for the course, there is nothing wrong with Migros courses, they teach the same stuff for the same exams as everyone else, so no worries there. The big issue is the students you get on the course - if you have a highly committed group, who turn up regularly and put the work in the class can be great, otherwise it will be a disaster. In my experience this is often the case with evening classes, people turn late and tired, don’t have the work done and occasionally skip classes and the whole thing falls apart.

__________________
"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela

You could ask if the would accept online classes. If you do Lingoda, you can print off a list of classes attended as proof. But if RAV are paying, I’d totally take a class at an in person school.

It is my observation that those RAV beneficiaries who find ways to work cooperatively with their advisor seem to end up getting more of what they want.

About the language skills, specifically. To qualify for RAV, one needs to have been working here for a while. Therefore the RAV advisor's question is likely to be: Why has this person, during their years in Switzerland, not already progressed beyond A1? In that case, dedicated measures are needed. In particular, I can understand an advisor who questions whether the beneficiary knows which kinds of courses could be effective, when they haven't already put effective measures into place. Although it may sound harsh, and not what you, OP, want to hear, I can see how the advisor could decided to work fully according to the book. No harm in your making the efforts with your own means, in addition, and perhaps then, later, the advisor will relent and let you switch to a course of your choosing.

Also: We knew of someone who was compelled by the RAV to attend all sorts of programmes or courses, and found them a stupid waste of time. However, someone advised him to mentally re-frame those hours by using every such compulsory course as a workshop for improving

• his everyday use of German
• memory skills for networking
• general interpersonal social interaction.

Begrudgingly, he did so.

One of the course attendees had a sister who was a hairdresser. That's a job where you end up listening to everyone's stories, so that hairdresser understood quite a lot about professional work fields far away from her own. The attendee had learnt from her sister, understood what kind of work the man did, put him in touch with hairdresser who immediately called a client of hers in that field, and that client ended up giving the job-seeker a job.

I trott this anecdote out from time to time because it shows how some burdensome exercises can be turned into benefits in unexpected ways. And also because it worked.

If you really don't want to attend the course, pass an SDS exam and negotiate back with your advisor. You can cover A1 within a week if you really want.

On a related topic, RAV Zurich and RAV offices in nearby cantons often send job-seekers to an "Application Strategy" course in English or in German. Feedback is generally positive to very positive. This link provides information on the course provided by one of RAV suppliers of the course:

https://www.newplacement.ch/english-bl

Yes, that's an option, especially if you progress beyond A1. In addition, for negotiating with your advisor, demonstrate to them what else it is, that you want to be doing during the times they want you to go to school. You might, for example, be working with your own job-coach just then, or spending time with a neighbour who is drilling you in German usage anyway, or be registered for an online course in a job-related subject. As long as you provide proof that doing all the other things they require of you, those kinds of arguments might work.

Sounds like a paid sabbatical.

You are unemployed, cashing in money from the RAV, and seemingly only willing to put in a few hours of effort a week (and at night)?

I'm not surprised your RAV counsellor is strict. I'd take this as a great (and free) opportunity to learn German!

Interesting, when I was on Rav last summer. I asked about German classes and they said no. They only do it if I was B2 and I needed that edge to get to C1.



Thankfully I was only on Rav for 6 weeks.

Yes what you say is basically what is happening. I do not report it as a job search activity, but as something I am doing on the side. The best bet for me is still an english speaking job, because I am very specialized. However, there are not that many and some of the jobs I apply to prefer having german skills (I have to get to 12 applications per month, so have no choice).

I will consider your suggestion about avoiding evening courses.

I never said this to my RAV counsellor. She just wants something to prove that (in her words) "I am doing my best to learn German".

This is a GREAT suggestion and I am doing it now. I have a month time I believe. I think it would be money and time well spent if I do A2 directly. Can you please explain what is an SDS exam or point me to it? A search on google is not clearing me out.

I can confirm. I was sent into a strategy course which I am attending now.

I have nothing against it, if you can make connections and know more about the job market in Switzerland.

Seems like they would accept only class. I did not know you could use Duolingo as proof. I am finding another app much more effective, it's called Drops.

BTW thank you to everyone is being so helpful. I wish I could quote everyone but takes time I am really getting pumped up on learning German fast.

What do you think about this? Any opinions?
https://www.vox-sprachschule.ch/en/zurich-enge/german

They seem to cover an entire module (not like Migros which does Ax.1 - Ax.2 - Ax.3 separately) in a shorter amount of time. I might start directly with A2 if I get to a good enough level.

Any tests also to understand if I reached A1 level?

I have no idea why I wrote Duolingo here. I totally meant Lingoda, duh! Duo won’t cut it!!!

For me this is the first result on google: https://www.digitalersprachtest.ch/

I can recommend Goethe Institut, although I don't think they have a presence in CH, but you can do an online assessment on their site (https://www.goethe.de/de/spr/kup/tsd.html) which will give you a basic idea about your level. They also do online courses, but we are past Covid, so learning in a real environment makes more sense (to me).

Exactly as stated above, in Switzerland it should show up as a first search result https://www.digitalersprachtest.ch/


There are two option for Swiss only local tests/certificates in German FIDE and SDS. I guess the only difference is that FIDE has a schedule, albeit once every month, where SDS can be taken anytime and gives instant result/certificate.


A1 I bet, if you're living here for some time, you can pass without any preparation. It'd be like a printout of three pictures of, say, A) buss approaching a buss stop, B) parked car, C) plane on the airport, and a word "flughafen" where your task is to point with finger which picture corresponds to it. You can botch the grammar and pronunciation, the key point is if you're just a bit aware what's the general simple meaning


*I was sitting only FIDE, but I've heard that SDS it much similar in structure. Both tests are "show me what you can", starting with A1 exercises, progressing... up to B1

I found a great german course and I need some help.

I found a fantastic A2 course which is part time (4-6 hours a week) and allows me to reach A2 level in 3 months. Its students are all high educated people and max 6 people per course (so no slow learning because 14 people are from different backgrounds).
In the end, it costs much less than Migros, because Migros you pay about 1000 per A.X level, while in this school you do the whole A2 level for 1700.
It is also much better for me because in the meantime I can study the A1 level and reach the A2 by end of the year.

Issue:

My counsellor insisted on Migros and I sent him my motivations and he said ok. But I fear they will not approve it and he did not give me any suggestions at all.

Can I somehow contact the Kantonale Amtsstelle KAST to see what their opinion would be beforehand? Can I include in the Gesuch um Zustimmung zum Kursbesuch a letter motivating why this solution is much better for me than any other? Any strategy suggested?

Thank you!

I'm not sure I understand this: he said ok, but you don't yet have approval.

In any case, you've set out your reasons clearly in your post above, so I suggest you write those up and submit them. Remember to do this in German. And definitely include information about the school itself (so they know it is legitimate) as well as the syllabus and a link to source of the information you've been given about the class sizes and level of the students, etc.

I don't think you have anything to lose by trying that. Your application will either be approved or not. If not, it's back to the course to which the advisor wants to assign you.

Once again, I think the single factor that could tip the advisor to let you do it your way is is your demonstrating your progress. Since what you're saying is that you want to learn faster, go ahead and show him how much more German you can already speak, now, than when you first started this thread 11 days ago.

I have approval from my RAV advisor, but not the approval from the kasse to pay for this course.

Honestly, if they say no I am willing to pay part of the course and do it. Even though it does not make much sense, since they would pay more with Migros.

Ok I will put some effort in writing a letter to attach to the form

In my experience the RAV minions you see have next to no authority over these things. They have a list of approved courses they can send you on and that’s that.

It is nobodies business as to what you are doing in the mornings or afternoon that prevents you from taking a course, but it reasonable to assume that same thing prevents you from working, so no payment.

I know of a gentleman who is 63 that RAV are forcing to attend language course since he no longer working, a waist of public money. The RAV minions are charged with ensuring they don’t make payments to individuals who are working on the black market, that is all they care about.

Think of them as fraud officers, again if your not available than your upto something and they’re not going to let you get away with it.