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Old 29.11.2008, 22:49
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I need Legal Advice

I am not sure where to start with this. But to make it simple, I would say that I believe I was fired because of something another employee said about me. It is 100% false, and it is why I am so aggravated. I have been at a job that asked me to leave another job for. In the last 2 months I have not been spoken to about poor job preformance. I was even told they were happy with my work. I had projects in motion up until last week with them. In fact, I have done things that have saved the place money, every day in fact. They stated it was my poor knowledge of german, and whatever else this other employee has said about me. It bothers me obviously that I am losing my job. But more so, that another employee was allowed to lie about me, with out me knowing it, and my self being is affected.
So also, I was in shock and told I had a 1 week notice, so when I was told it was a lack of german and then a german sheet of paper was shoved in front of me, I signed it. I feel now that was wrong, although it was probably just something standard. But I am being let go on a basis of lack of german, after 2 months, and they give me a form in German. I am so angry right now. I wish some one had some advice.
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Old 29.11.2008, 22:55
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Re: I need Legal Advice

Sorry to hear about your situation, but in order to give advice we may need more information. Such as the type of industry and how long you were working for the company. A lot of firms are suffering at the moment because of the current financial climate and it may be that yor company is just getting rid of you to save money. If you are still in your probationary period then it is easier to get rid of you than someone who has been with the firm for a few years. It doesn't make it any easier for you but that's the way things are at the moment.

On the face of it, they would be on shaky ground getting rid of you for having poor German. I would have thought that they knew this when they took you on.

One more thing, don't sign anything unless you know what it is that you are signing.
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Old 29.11.2008, 22:59
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Re: I need Legal Advice

Presumably, you were in the probation period. So it was relatively easy for the employer to dismiss you.

The clock cannot be turned back. For others who might be heading to a similar situation, I reiterate the advice often given:
  1. Get litigation insurance to combat injustice.
  2. Never sign anything without studying it carefully and getting expert advice.
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Old 29.11.2008, 23:11
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Re: I need Legal Advice

Hi Confloozed, sent you a PM. It might help you, but then again it might not.
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  #5  
Old 29.11.2008, 23:23
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Re: I need Legal Advice

Normally I do not sign anything with out taking it home first. But seriously, I was in shock.
I have been there less then 3 months. I am a Chef. I work in a restaurant. The Chef du Cuisine speaks english fluently. He has recently moved into the position of General manager, whilst still holding the title of Chef. He has talked with me since April, and encouraged me to leave my previously job in Wadenswil. I did, and then business slowed in the last summer months, and he asked me to start instead in the beginning of October.
I did. There was another cook who left a week ago who spoke english and would explain some recipes to me. He left, after an almost fist fight with the GM/Chef. I would rather talk with a professional or some who really knows the law about what this other employee said about me, as getting involved with this explanation in the forum is a bit too much for me at this time. But, to make it simple, it is 100% false, and I am not personally clear why this
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Old 29.11.2008, 23:29
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Re: I need Legal Advice

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Presumably, you were in the probation period. So it was relatively easy for the employer to dismiss you.

The clock cannot be turned back. For others who might be heading to a similar situation, I reiterate the advice often given:
  1. Get litigation insurance to combat injustice.
  2. Never sign anything without studying it carefully and getting expert advice.
I agree 100% with Goldtop. There is no way that someone, especially someone who is not Swiss (by this I mean not knowing the language perfectly and possibly not knowing the customs of business, government and other) should try to get by without legal insurance. One mistake can be very costly in monetary and non-monetary terms.

I will put a plug in for the TCS who have a great legal insurance. There are of course others as well. Here is the TCS link in German (also in FR and IT).

http://www.tcs.ch/main/de/home/versi...tz/privat.html

The key is that everyone should have legal insurance. I personally don't consider it optional.
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Old 30.11.2008, 00:10
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Re: I need Legal Advice

Until this post I have never even heard of legal insurance. I assume it is too late for me. However, is there still something I can do?
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Old 30.11.2008, 00:26
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Re: I need Legal Advice

It seems like you are under the "Probezeit" and then the company can let you go with 7 days notice. Is it after Probezeit they can let you go with 1 month notice. In either case there is nothing you can do apart from making sure that they grant you the legal notice period and make sure that you get a fair Reference letter.
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Old 30.11.2008, 00:27
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Re: I need Legal Advice

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I agree 100% with Goldtop. There is no way that someone, especially someone who is not Swiss (by this I mean not knowing the language perfectly and possibly not knowing the customs of business, government and other) should try to get by without legal insurance. One mistake can be very costly in monetary and non-monetary terms.

I will put a plug in for the TCS who have a great legal insurance. There are of course others as well. Here is the TCS link in German (also in FR and IT).

http://www.tcs.ch/main/de/home/versi...tz/privat.html

The key is that everyone should have legal insurance. I personally don't consider it optional.
Thanks for the Link. I have a nasty feeling it will soon be very useful for me.

I am afraid I will be on the job market again soon. I came as a contractor, and will not get my contract extended again. What really annoys me is, that they hire a permanent guy with lower skills than me to take over my job, 1 month after i started. I asked for a "Zwischenzeugnis" which I have not received 2 weeks after I requested it first time and sent a reminder with a time limit on it. I know how important a Zeugnis is here, and fortunately the client I work for has written a reference for me, so I should be ok, even without the Zeugnis, but too dangerous to chance it here.

Doc
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Old 30.11.2008, 00:30
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Re: I need Legal Advice

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Until this post I have never even heard of legal insurance. I assume it is too late for me. However, is there still something I can do?
Litigation insurance covers the cost of some but not all litigation. Excluded (depends on insurer/policy) are nearly always tax and financial litigation. Almost always included are employment and tenancy.

TCS was mentioned. They are good but somewhat expensive. Take a look at Zurich Insurance. But always check that the policy covers your and your family's needs. Also better not to buy litigation insurance from an insurer that has issued you other policies. You may need your litigation insurance to fight your other insurers.

No insurance covers events that occurred before the policy was purchased. Sometimes there is even a waiting period.
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Old 30.11.2008, 00:35
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Re: I need Legal Advice

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... I asked for a "Zwischenzeugnis" which I have not received 2 weeks after I requested it first time and sent a reminder with a time limit on it. I know how important a Zeugnis is here, and fortunately the client I work for has written a reference for me, so I should be ok, even without the Zeugnis, but too dangerous to chance it here.

Doc
Suggest you draft your own testimonial and submit it as a suggestion. That makes it easier for the employer. Also they are then under pressure to accept or revise.
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Old 30.11.2008, 01:06
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Re: I need Legal Advice

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Suggest you draft your own testimonial and submit it as a suggestion. That makes it easier for the employer. Also they are then under pressure to accept or revise.
My employer is "Company A" but I am outsourced to "Company B"
"A" has no Idea what I do and can do, as there is no reporting system in place, and only "B" is actually halfway capable of writing a reference. As they can not write a "Zeugnis" for legal reasons, I asked and received a "Referenz" from "B" already, which I use. I could imagine that would be important if/when it turns bad.

My Manager in "A" is a non-EU citizen located in Germany, so he does not know, he has to give me the reference when requested.
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Old 30.11.2008, 01:09
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Re: I need Legal Advice

Is company A a legal entity in Switzerland? In that case, one of the board members can sign the reference letter e.g. In any case, the advice to write your own is really the best way.


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My employer is "Company A" but I am outsourced to "Company B"
"A" has no Idea what I do and can do, as there is no reporting system in place, and only "B" is actually halfway capable of writing a reference. As they can not write a "Zeugnis" for legal reasons, I asked and received a "Referenz" from "B" already, which I use. I could imagine that would be important if/when it turns bad.

My Manager in "A" is a non-EU citizen located in Germany, so he does not know, he has to give me the reference when requested.
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Old 30.11.2008, 03:22
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Re: I need Legal Advice

I was a contractor placed at the same firm for over 4 years, and recently lost my job. I received a final zeugnis from the firm where I was placed, not from the agency that actually employed me.
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Old 30.11.2008, 11:11
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Re: I need Legal Advice

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My employer is "Company A" but I am outsourced to "Company B"
"A" has no Idea what I do and can do, as there is no reporting system in place, and only "B" is actually halfway capable of writing a reference. As they can not write a "Zeugnis" for legal reasons, I asked and received a "Referenz" from "B" already, which I use. I could imagine that would be important if/when it turns bad.

My Manager in "A" is a non-EU citizen located in Germany, so he does not know, he has to give me the reference when requested.
Well if it any comfort to you, I switched to being an employee last year, after 15 years contracting here and no one asked me for references. Most companies have a policy of not giving references to contractors, so I don't think it is very difficult to explain the situation to a future employer.

Jim.
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Old 30.11.2008, 15:04
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Re: I need Legal Advice

Hi

Sorry to hear about what has happened.

TBH I don't think you really need any legal advice because if the company wants to get rid of you during the probation period (first 3 months in a company) they can do so without needing to justify it. Therefore you don't have to feel guilty about signing that piece of paper because nothing you sign (or refuse to sign) can stop them from doing so.

My tip would be simply to try to move on (don't be angry, anger only makes YOU feel bad) and go to the closest RAV on monday:
http://www.rav.zh.ch/internet/vd/awa...standorte.html

Also try to learn from the experience.
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Old 30.11.2008, 16:04
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Re: I need Legal Advice

I am very sorry for what happened. An employee at my company
was falsely accused for things that weren't true and let go.

How long have you been here? If more than one year, you
should get unemployment insurance.

As someone said above, always get legal insurance. This will
pay an attorney in case of such circumstances!!

I learned this the hard way as my old employer accused me falsely
of something and gave me a "Zero notice period"( Fristloskündigung in
German ).
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Old 01.12.2008, 09:18
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Re: I need Legal Advice

What happens if you were out of your probation period but had only been with the company 4 months? My boyfriend was sacked last week but was not given a reason or explanation. He had no warnings, verbal or written and management were happy with his work. Doesn't a system exist to protect employees in cases like this? Surely they can't just fire someone for no reason? In the UK it takes a while to get rid of someone and the person who eventually gets fired has had plenty of notice that it's going to happen.

I read something about claus 337 of the Swiss code of obligations whereby it states how to object to dimissal and that it is up to the employee to prove the company did something wrong. How on earth does one do that?

Sorry for all the questions
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Old 01.12.2008, 09:44
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Re: I need Legal Advice

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What happens if you were out of your probation period but had only been with the company 4 months? My boyfriend was sacked last week but was not given a reason or explanation. He had no warnings, verbal or written and management were happy with his work. Doesn't a system exist to protect employees in cases like this? Surely they can't just fire someone for no reason? In the UK it takes a while to get rid of someone and the person who eventually gets fired has had plenty of notice that it's going to happen.

I read something about claus 337 of the Swiss code of obligations whereby it states how to object to dimissal and that it is up to the employee to prove the company did something wrong. How on earth does one do that?

Sorry for all the questions
What was his notice period on his contract? Are they
at least paying his notice period?

It sounds like he had a Fristlosekundigüng.

They did that at my company a few weeks ago to a guy
although they had no reason.
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Old 01.12.2008, 09:47
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Re: I need Legal Advice

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What happens if you were out of your probation period but had only been with the company 4 months? My boyfriend was sacked last week but was not given a reason or explanation. He had no warnings, verbal or written and management were happy with his work. Doesn't a system exist to protect employees in cases like this? Surely they can't just fire someone for no reason? In the UK it takes a while to get rid of someone and the person who eventually gets fired has had plenty of notice that it's going to happen.

I read something about claus 337 of the Swiss code of obligations whereby it states how to object to dimissal and that it is up to the employee to prove the company did something wrong. How on earth does one do that?

Sorry for all the questions
Actually, unless things have changed dramatically in the UK, before you have worked for a company for two years you have little or no protection at all, but that is not the question here.

The most important question is what notice period is there in your boyfriend's contract? I assume that he was given notice in writing, a legal obligation, and what does it say in the letter? Generally the trial period is three months and after that notice should be at least one month in the first year. Unfortunately in times like these when companies are cutting back just because someone is doing their job doesn't mean they are safe (last in - first out), but that doesn't mean that companies can flout the law. Also, according to the law, if requested the company must explain in writing why someone has been terminated.

If your boyfriend thinks that he has been hard done by then he should get himself down to the local unemployment office and they may be able to give him some asssistance or at least point him in the direction of someone who can.

Last edited by Snoopy; 01.12.2008 at 09:57. Reason: Correction of notice period in first year
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