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  #21  
Old 21.02.2009, 08:28
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

I would say you need to write down all your income and out goings for the next few months (everything even the 20rp you may give to a begger) and see what your spending the money on and then try and see where you can save.....

i am not sure if you are getting 115k a year or what but i don't even make 17k a year and i am a single mum and i can save, can save the amount you can but i still can...so sorry mate you must be doing something really really wrong....

As it has been said before most people in switzerland don't pay off ther houses before they die and they normally get help from dad or mum to buy there house to start with....

if your saving 1000chf a month that makes 12000 a year so i would say in a few years you should be able to pay the 20% depo for a house and still be able to life, dreams don't happen over night.....

good luck and i hope you find out where your money is going...

p.s kids are expensive but they don't have to be.....
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  #22  
Old 21.02.2009, 09:01
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

What are you doing with your savings is a good question?

Is it just sitting in the bank and not doing anything for you? A lot of people I know, may not earn a lot , but with the little amounts they do save they put it away in the best position to maximise any return.

Interest rates are still quite good on savings accounts back home.You can sit the park the savings into an ordinary internet account and earn descent interest for doing nothing, and the funds are always available. The exchange rate also back home is in your favour. I currently send 1000chf home every month. In case I return, that is going to amount to a very nice saving.

However if the fx rates change, this can also have repercussions, when you want your chf back.
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  #23  
Old 21.02.2009, 09:06
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

I have an exercise for you, it's end of the month and pay day is coming around the 25th of each month plus minus. After you got your salary, pay all your bills and sundries. Take to heart advices above, cut down on expenses that you've mentioned above, try to live more stingy and tell us at end of March how much you managed to save now!
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  #24  
Old 21.02.2009, 09:19
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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The heath insurance is a biggie. Use www.comparis.ch to see if you can get much better deal whilst not downing your coverage too much. It's in English and it is worth the struggle.

Usually you can only switch at the end of the year November I think. Still you can see how much you can save next year. We switched last year and got similar coverage and saved 500 francs.
You could also contact Jenny (http://www.englishforum.ch/members/610-jenny.html) - she's an insurance advisor and has information that is more up to date than what you can find on comparis. She does all the research for you, and her services are free - she gets a commission from the insurance companies. She was recommended to me by several people, and I found her to be very helpful.
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  #25  
Old 21.02.2009, 11:59
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

I would also analyze the money spent on your baby needs too, as it can be a black hole for money dissappearing. I agree it does not have to be expensive if one is savvy. Children grow so fast.

What we did was:

-nurse

-make our own baby food, healtier and tastier (you can freeze it for later too or can it yourself) there is a nice web of a dad cooking: http://baby-food.romanvirdi.com/ , then http://www.wholesomebabyfood.com/index.htm

-avoid lots of popular and unneccessary baby cosmetics

-avoid a lot of baby disposable products, they are often soaked in chemicals anyway and the ones that aren't scratch the baby skin. Damp muselin cloth (or plain old terry) works the same way as a wet wipe, but does not have all the chemical weirdness in it.

-buy used (really high quality actually, almost not worn) baby clothes in lots on ebay,we got boxes of clothes 0mo-2yr that way, for a fraction that we would end up paying here, even in thrift stores. France has some nice, cheaper clothes too.

-buy babycarriage off www.ricardo.ch , it was a great deal. The same can be done with toys, etc on www.anibis.ch , www.petite-annonces.ch

-buy used (or new discounted) clothes, toys and english books at special regional flee markets for children's stuff, it is usually once or twice a year. There is a big choice of smart toys there. I realized one has to be clever buying kids toys, we avoided the boring stuffed animals and went for the building, blocks and more fun things (usually the stuffed animals show up as gifts anyways).I read books on kid's development to have an idea what they will be playing with next, spares one buying useless toys. Ikea has some cool wodden kids things.

-get books and toys loaned at local ludotheque and bibliotheque, it is a nice way to meet other children and parents plus it teaches a great lesson on sharing

-bought beautiful old wodden children's furniture, rocking horse and blackboard on our once a month flee market, it is high quality, kids tested

-cook at home for the whole family, if it is not overspiced, greasy or fried a young child can eat what the family does very soon. The special children's little dishes and prefabed snacks can be really pricey.

The things we did not want to save on were a car seat (Romer, we do 12hr drives) and pampers (we needed the dryest alternative for us, but I know cloth diapering saves people ton of cash).

It is nice when a child can use an old wodden toy generations prior her used. Hand me downs make so much sense, our friends were generous, we do the same for people. It takes a bit of patience to learn the tricks with old fashioned ways but in the long run everybody benefits.
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  #26  
Old 21.02.2009, 12:46
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

You should be saving at least 15% of your income a year if your goal is to put a deposit down for your own apartment/house in the next 5 to 10 years.

A few possible points on your check list:
1. Toilet paper, paper napkins, hand soap, eggs, cornflakes, wine -- buy at Denner or Aldi, much cheaper.
2. Cut out, if possible, sugared drinks, soda pop and junk food (like crisps) from your grocery list. They not only add up each month, they're also unhealthy.
3. Forget about designer clothes, accessories, shoes and bags as part of your regular lifestyle. Let those be a birthday or anniversary treat. In that way, you'd appreciate those things more (if you have less of them).
4. Same goes for restaurant outings - make each a special occasion and stick to just one main course and one or two beers or glasses of wine. Go home for homemade desserts.
5. Cook or bake your favourite food from scratch. They'll not only taste better, they'd be cheaper, more nutritious and fresher.

Living basic is not miserable at all. It is liberating -- no matter what your income is. The old conspicuous consumption culture is so last-century.
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  #27  
Old 21.02.2009, 13:12
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

Shouldn't this thread be moved? I don't really see the link with employment?
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  #28  
Old 21.02.2009, 14:05
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

Hi Swissaholic,

Have you thought about buying something back in Oz and just remaining a tenant here? Interest rates are low and the dollar is down so sending CHf back feels like your making money just by sending it home. Your 1000CHf a month will turn into more than $1200 once you send it back. Not so long ago the two currencies were on par.

We have a little place in Sydney and haven't had a problem finding tenants to cover the mortgage. The interest rate is half that of just 18 months ago and then anything we can send home from here is a bonus.

If you ultimately intend to return home you could use your time here to get a good foothold on the property ladder.

All the other tips you've received here are fantastic too. You have to be creative here in Switzerland but it's worth it.

Good luck,
Mel
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  #29  
Old 21.02.2009, 14:34
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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I have no idea how people are able to live on the salaries here. Im from Australia and I moved across I thought I would be swimming in cash with my 115k salary and low tax. But after living here for 6 or so months Im only saving around 1000 a mth.. if that! HR in the company I work for accidently sent me the salaries of my coworks (handy) and they're earning slightly more that I am - around 2k per year, yet they are buying a house, have 2 cars and 3 kids! I have a new kid, rent is low (1600chf/m), a tiny car, rarly go out and it just seems impossible to save for a house here and pay it off. Am I missing out on something? Is there some amazing thing that people arent telling me?
One thing to remember is that your pension is also a saving, although not available until old age. If the company you work for happens to have a really good pension then you may find that the montly deductions are higher that others on the same salary, so it reality you are saving more that you think!

Jim
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  #30  
Old 09.03.2009, 20:59
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

Hey don't worry, it gets better after 18 months where there are no more "fixed costs"
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  #31  
Old 09.03.2009, 21:20
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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Salary less than 120kCHF will be one thing. If you earn more than 120kCHF you will have to make a tax return and then all manner of things are deductable.

your co-workers could have any number of possible reasons for having the 'exuberant' life styles. get past it and move on.

bill
If your salary is less than 120'000CHF, then ask your local tax office for a return, and then you can benefit from tax deductions also.

I sold my house in the UK and made a tidy (tax free) profit. I then took that profit and paid up my pension fund here. Which was tax deductable...

To the OP. Are you the same age as your co-workers? Or are you considerably younger. When you've been earning for a while, that CHF1'000 a month you're saving (which seems to me a very respectable amount from a CHF115'000), soon mounts up.
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  #32  
Old 09.03.2009, 22:44
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

Hi, few years ago when I was living literally from CHF to CHF every month because I was not earning enough, I started something I did as a child, I put away every single 5 CHF coin change that landed in my hand

Call it psychological or whatever, but they sure add up very quickly and you'll be amazed at how much it adds up when the piggy bank is full
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  #33  
Old 10.03.2009, 01:28
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

Hi 1st of all you are doing something, 1k a month isn't nothing but perhaps you have another target. Rather than comparing yourself to others figure out what the priorities of your family are now and set some budgeting goals, then work on a budget to finance them in the short, medium and longer term.

Consider researching a budgeting tool that makes intuitive sense to you and consider starting to use it. Not all tools are boring or force you to track every Rappen. Some banks will set up a "save the change" on your account where round ups you wouldn't notice are transferred to savings automatically for debit card usage etc, find a scheme that works for you.

You haven't mentioned you're in debt and you are in employment, that's a lot these days.

A good example of a possible tool I find myself is "you need a budget" on ynab.com, not for the tool more the budgeting philosophy, which is based on achieving a level of saving so you are always at least a month ahead in your spending, and this gradually increases. In addition you give every franc a "job" and allocate it. This helps you having too much impulse/blow money. If you sign up for the free newsletter, you get a cheery american email for ten editions but it introduces the philosophy which might be a starting point.

Try to take it a step at a time, you're in a special time of your life with a young family. Just focus on doing the best you can and improving a little each month. A year from now it'll look very different.

Personally I just changed jobs to improve my financial goals too, I realise I won't get there overnight, but I've started the journey and intend to persevere, each month brings a new goal and each goal achieved has its own reward. Draw on your family for support, share some of the burden so to speak and keep in touch with your friends for a break each week.

All the best.
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  #34  
Old 10.03.2009, 13:45
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

I find that a comfortable lifestyle in CH is not that expensive as long as you are clever with your expenditure. If you use public transport, get the Abo that makes most financial sense (it's amazing how many people don't or even have none).

Shopping is no more expensive than the rest of Western Europe, with one exception - meat, and other than special offers, a freezer and a monthly trip to France/Italy/Germany will do wonders for bringing this cost down.

Rent can be insanely high, or much cheaper than you'll expect in much of Western Europe. Because of the better infrastructure, there really is no reason to live in, say, Zurich, when you can get a place for a quarter of the rent and still be no more than 20 minutes away by train.

As others have suggested, make price comparisons, as it really does pay to shop around for everything from credit cards, bank accounts, furniture, Krankenkasse, etc.

What will hammer your expenses are any of the finer things in life. A quick apero and 'cheap' bite to eat will set you back between 20 and 40 CHF easy. The cinema will cost 20 CHF before you get to the popcorn. Less said about the cost of night life the better.

So my own experience is that living at a certain, as long as you take some care in how you spend, comfortable, level is actually cheaper here than in the UK or Ireland (largely due to Swiss emphasis on standards), but once you want to live a little your expenses rocket.
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  #35  
Old 10.03.2009, 15:07
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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I have no idea how people are able to live on the salaries here. Im from Australia and I moved across I thought I would be swimming in cash with my 115k salary and low tax. But after living here for 6 or so months Im only saving around 1000 a mth.. if that! HR in the company I work for accidently sent me the salaries of my coworks (handy) and they're earning slightly more that I am - around 2k per year, yet they are buying a house, have 2 cars and 3 kids! I have a new kid, rent is low (1600chf/m), a tiny car, rarly go out and it just seems impossible to save for a house here and pay it off. Am I missing out on something? Is there some amazing thing that people arent telling me?
I guess you should be able to save a bit more, but I wouldn't expect being able to save thousands a month with this kind of salary (even though its a good salary - especially if you live in Zurich you'll also spend a lot).

btw - many Swiss people I know do get substantial financial help from their parents when buying real estate. Once you have the downpayment the monthly interest is even less than what we foreigners pay in rent for a similar place....
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  #36  
Old 10.03.2009, 15:29
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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btw - many Swiss people I know do get substantial financial help from their parents when buying real estate. Once you have the downpayment the monthly interest is even less than what we foreigners pay in rent for a similar place....
Some also try to charge their kids more interest than the bank rate.
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  #37  
Old 10.03.2009, 15:38
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

Do two food shops a month in France. May a day out of it...Cut your food bill. Buy clothes in France. Alternatively go to shops like Aldi-Suisse, Lidl is starting this spring, but only in the East part of Switzerland.
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  #38  
Old 10.03.2009, 16:22
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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It takes a while to change the lifestyle around - I'm the 'housefrau' and we don't eat out, at all, with our kids...we live basic.

We are paying out 25K+ on school fees, similar rent to you, and hope to come out 'in front' this month and start putting aside 500chf a month in savings...It'll take a big effort to do that - we eat basic, shop basic and live basic, and no car... with three kids...our grocery bills are about 250chf a week total, and our health insurance is 800chf. We get 150chf approx per child per month 'rebate' on salary...

Hobbies - none that cost money, the local library is free and has a good basic collection of DVD's...we probably do a day trip once a month and that costs us about 150chf. When we go out we go past the local denner and get chocolate UHT milk, bananas, bread, rice crackers, cheese and a packet of meat and some veges and that's our food for the day...

On the one hand, I don't think people who have mortgages here are necessarily 'in front' - and if they are young in particular, it's quite likely a lifestyle 'on credit' - we have friends and family in Australia who are similar, the appearance of money where there is little or none - I am content that if we sold everything we had, we'd cover our current debt, and the only money we owe is from our family who are happy to loan us 'interest free'...my dad calls it 'living within your means'...it's a challenge, but it's necessary...you can't spend money you don't have...for long...

As others have said, there is a total 'myth' that more money = more wealthy...it's all about expenditure, not income...
What's the point of living in Switzerland then? You can live like that in any country. We had very good public schools in Montreal and a lot of cheap entertainment.
People come to Switzerland to earn, otherwise it's better elsewhere.
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  #39  
Old 10.03.2009, 16:25
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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I find that a comfortable lifestyle in CH is not that expensive as long as you are clever with your expenditure. If you use public transport, get the Abo that makes most financial sense (it's amazing how many people don't or even have none).

Shopping is no more expensive than the rest of Western Europe, with one exception - meat, and other than special offers, a freezer and a monthly trip to France/Italy/Germany will do wonders for bringing this cost down.

Rent can be insanely high, or much cheaper than you'll expect in much of Western Europe. Because of the better infrastructure, there really is no reason to live in, say, Zurich, when you can get a place for a quarter of the rent and still be no more than 20 minutes away by train.

As others have suggested, make price comparisons, as it really does pay to shop around for everything from credit cards, bank accounts, furniture, Krankenkasse, etc.

What will hammer your expenses are any of the finer things in life. A quick apero and 'cheap' bite to eat will set you back between 20 and 40 CHF easy. The cinema will cost 20 CHF before you get to the popcorn. Less said about the cost of night life the better.

So my own experience is that living at a certain, as long as you take some care in how you spend, comfortable, level is actually cheaper here than in the UK or Ireland (largely due to Swiss emphasis on standards), but once you want to live a little your expenses rocket.
So basically surviving is cheap in Switzerland... it's LIVING that's expensive. So... leaving in a boring unfriendly country AND leading a very basic lifestyle. Going to movies for me is NOT going out/special occasion. Should be one of those several times a week things. Same for going to an average priced restaurant.
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Old 10.03.2009, 16:27
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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What's the point of living in Switzerland then? You can live like that in any country. We had very good public schools in Montreal and a lot of cheap entertainment.
People come to Switzerland to earn, otherwise it's better elsewhere.
Sorry, but we were earning way more in London in our early 20s than we are now in our early 30s. We are here for a better quaility of life.

Nice fresh air, walking to work, feeling safe and seeing the mountains every day are things money can't buy.
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