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  #121  
Old 30.03.2011, 20:19
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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my basic costs are 3500chf (rent, insurances, travel expenses/commute, etc.). nothing i can do about.
Ok, let's leave your basic expenses where they are, even if they could probably be optimized (seem very high, we are a family of 2 and our fixed expenses average at 2300chf/month for both of us - that includes 1 GA and a car; but we don't live in ZRH so only 1000chf/month is rent).

A single person can do with 500chf a month for groceries. That of course means no eating out.
We average at around 800chf for two, including alcohol and snacks.

Heck, if you only gave up drinking you'd save 800chf a month. It's doable, isn't it? You could even learn how to cook . That's what I call commitment to saving. Nobody has to do it. Some are happier spending and that's also perfectly OK.

I'm not a saver myself, but I optimize/minimize my fixed expenses in order to maximize the amount of money I have left for hobbies. It took some time to reach this point, and in my first months here I could probably start a topic with exactly the same title, but it's much better now.

The OP posted one year ago, and I can only hope he got a better grasp of his finances by now. There is no magical solution for doing this. The person to whom I responded "don't spend" didn't give a single word of information about his/her background. Was my answer really so bad? Obvious - yes, but not untrue.

Last edited by glinaa; 30.03.2011 at 20:43.
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  #122  
Old 30.03.2011, 22:52
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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my basic costs are 3500chf (rent, insurances, travel expenses/commute, etc.). nothing i can do about. another 1400 is for funds and 200/week (amplitude depending on skiing season, gigs, travelling, etc.) i spend on drinks, eating/filling fridge/cinema. what i have left then goes into the bank. i dont say i dont have enough money, just saying that I cant see how to save 3k/month from 115k/year when having a small family as I dont get by under 5k.
Sure, I can understand that too. I look at our accounts and I wonder how people who earn less manage - and I certainly don't mean that in a condescending way.

But it is also about the situation you are in.

Firstly, you tend to spend to your means. Which means that you aren't under pressure to reduce spending. People who are will make more of an effort to make sure they don't overspend.

Glinaa mentioned 500 CHF for a single person's food. We spend 1100 CHF on food for a family of 5 per month (albeit with 3 small children). We manage that by going to France to buy stuff that is expensive and avoiding fines by making sure we stay within our meat allowance .

Likewise, we've just moved house. We have a much bigger house, further out in the countryside. We pay as slightly less rent as our central Basel 5.5 room flat, but, crucically our tax bill is massively lower, as is our health insurance. Travel costs remain the same, as our TNW abo covers the tram line that runs to our village.

All these things can be managed to reduce your spending and increase your savings... crucially - if you have to or if you want to.

But, I do understand that it isn't easy, and looking back, I wonder how I managed on 90 GBP per week when I finished Uni.
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  #123  
Old 31.03.2011, 08:47
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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Sorry, but I have to completely disagree on the Zug comment. I moved somewhere very expensive recently and it was the financially most sensible thing to do: Places like Zug are expensive because the demand is high. In some cases, like central Zurich, the demand is high because it is a convenient place to live. In Switzerland, most expensive places are actually in demand because the taxes are low there and I can tell you that the differences around Zurich are massive.
So I moved to the sticks to pay MORE rent than in Zurich. Much more actually - but save there then even more than the difference in rent on taxes.

Saving on taxes only works if you have an income large enought to do so - but 115k a year for a single sounds in an area where the calculation already makes sense.
I haven't done the calcs, but as I understand it the difference between a little country hick town in Aargau but right on the border with Zürich and living in Zug centre or Rotkreuz (ZG) is about 9,500CHF per year (17,400 in AG and 7,600 in ZG. See tax comparison site: (Sorry it's German only, but www.dict.cc is a pretty good dictionary.)

http://www.comparis.ch/steuern/steue...vergleich.aspx

I will confess that these are very rough calculations and my maths 'Fu' is not strong, but... In AG you can get away with 1500-2000 CHF a month for a 4.5 room apartment. In Zug you'd pay at least double that for the same size/standard. So paying 1,500CHF per month extra x 12 (18,000CHF) is a bit more (double ) the tax advantage...

Or have I missed something?

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  #124  
Old 31.03.2011, 08:58
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

glinaa, carlos: i believe you that you manage, but not in ZURICH, as i said!

but to your very valid arguments: travelling to France or Germany for shopping is no option!
i spend 50-80 CHf/week to fill the fridge with basics, i think i could cut this to 40-60 by going to Kaufland. but as costs, running a car (IF!!! I HAD ONE!!!) would eat up these savings with taxes, repair costs and gas.

those 200 chf i spend a week do have everything in it: fridge plus fun. i said i could cut the fun, replace convenient food with cookable stuff and still wouldnt save a penny. if i wasnt going out, ok there is a 100 CHF i could save a week.

still 4700-4800 to be spent.

as i said, im saving much for pension funds. if i did not do this, i had more cash savings that would get me to the 3k/month. as a single!!! i do make excel files on spendings, i researched how to save more, just as i said i want to run my basic costs at lowest level. and here i am. yes, i could move to bassersdorf, xyzikon, cowshitsbourg and get my 1800 3room apartment for 1400 chf and a tax reduction, maybe. but thats no option. in Zurich as a single household i wont make it below 4800. it is not working. nothing more to add.
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  #125  
Old 31.03.2011, 09:32
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

rent-utils 1,600 insurance 135 mobile 35 inet 30 food 300 tv-billag 40 GA 270

I tried to do a quick calc of basic expenses and got to around 2,400chfs per month for basics for a single person, or around 3,000chfs for 2 people.
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  #126  
Old 31.03.2011, 09:58
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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rent-utils 1,600 insurance 135 mobile 35 inet 30 food 300 tv-billag 40 GA 270

I tried to do a quick calc of basic expenses and got to around 2,400chfs per month for basics for a single person, or around 3,000chfs for 2 people.
Still think you are a bit low, particularly for insurance. Health insurance on its own here will set you back another 100 (and thats with a high franchise fr a younger male - better not get sick or you'll be really screwed) and you want home contents and personal liability insurance too (for when the landlord screws you). 300 might be enough for groceries if you shop at Lidl and take homemade lunch to work. Also I thought that the GA was only so cheap if you bought an annual one and amortised it over a year. Isn't it an extra 30 or so to pay monthly (petty amount yes, but money is tight)
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  #127  
Old 31.03.2011, 10:21
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

1900 rent (incl. nebenkosten)
280 insurance halbprivat insurance (has top up for glasses etc)
230 zvv 10 zone pass
200 inet and land line fon
160 mobile
40 billag
50 i save up for house hold insurance and law insurance
400 food/fridge/fun (no wintersports, is on top in the season)
sums up to: 3300
funds and insurances in germany 1400 CHF

4700,- that i cant cut

extras: cleaning lady 100/month, shirts for dry cleaner 50/month

roughly 5000 CHF
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  #128  
Old 31.03.2011, 10:32
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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Still think you are a bit low, particularly for insurance. Health insurance on its own here will set you back another 100 (and thats with a high franchise fr a younger male - better not get sick or you'll be really screwed) and you want home contents and personal liability insurance too (for when the landlord screws you). 300 might be enough for groceries if you shop at Lidl and take homemade lunch to work. Also I thought that the GA was only so cheap if you bought an annual one and amortised it over a year. Isn't it an extra 30 or so to pay monthly (petty amount yes, but money is tight)
yes, this assumes you buy the annual GA and this takes the monthly cost of it into account. to be honest, the GA is a bit of a luxury. i guess you could eliminate the the 270 per month and instead walk/bike.

the health insurance figure is what i currently pay. there might be a small amount more for liability insurance.
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  #129  
Old 31.03.2011, 10:39
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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1900 rent (incl. nebenkosten)
280 insurance halbprivat insurance (has top up for glasses etc)
230 zvv 10 zone pass
200 inet and land line fon
160 mobile
40 billag
50 i save up for house hold insurance and law insurance
400 food/fridge/fun (no wintersports, is on top in the season)
sums up to: 3300
funds and insurances in germany 1400 CHF

4700,- that i cant cut

extras: cleaning lady 100/month, shirts for dry cleaner 50/month

roughly 5000 CHF
360 telecoms/internet is a lot and i doubt that it can't be cut at all. expected saving 300chf
1900 rent. is ok, but you can get cheap. potential 300chf saving per month, but maybe not worth the hassle.
230 zvv pass. zurich is small enough to bike/walk everywhere. 230chf saving
280 insurance. comparis shows you can get insurance for 150 per month. 130chf saving
400 food. ok, i guess you can cut 20chf from this with little effort.

total savings: 1000 chfs per month.

don't forget the lost income and future savings from investing these monthly savings: according to Alice Schroeder's biography "The Snowball," when he was a young man, Mr. Buffett often asked, "Do I really want to spend $300,000 for this haircut?" He was thinking about the vast amount of money he wouldn't have decades in the future because of the small outlay he might make in the present.
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  #130  
Old 31.03.2011, 11:21
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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1900 rent (incl. nebenkosten)
280 insurance halbprivat insurance (has top up for glasses etc)
230 zvv 10 zone pass
200 inet and land line fon
160 mobile
40 billag
50 i save up for house hold insurance and law insurance
400 food/fridge/fun (no wintersports, is on top in the season)
sums up to: 3300
funds and insurances in germany 1400 CHF

4700,- that i cant cut

extras: cleaning lady 100/month, shirts for dry cleaner 50/month

roughly 5000 CHF
You can cut that and do it yourself... Make some extra money in saving or for fun!
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  #131  
Old 31.03.2011, 11:35
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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1900 rent (incl. nebenkosten)
280 insurance halbprivat insurance (has top up for glasses etc)
230 zvv 10 zone pass
200 inet and land line fon
160 mobile
40 billag
50 i save up for house hold insurance and law insurance
400 food/fridge/fun (no wintersports, is on top in the season)
sums up to: 3300
funds and insurances in germany 1400 CHF

4700,- that i cant cut

extras: cleaning lady 100/month, shirts for dry cleaner 50/month

roughly 5000 CHF
Instead of getting a 230CHF per month ZVV zone pass why don't you get a GA pass? It would be 305 per month on a subscription or 3300 per year which comes out to 275CHF per month. Then you can travel in more than that zone as well and travel around Switzerland more?

If your work gives reka checks you might be able to save a bit with them as well.

For internet and phone and tv you could get a vivo casa package from swisscom whcih would save you a good bit

http://www.swisscom.ch/res/kombi-angebote/index.htm

160CHF for mobile seems like an awful lot as well but I guess that depends on usage.
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  #132  
Old 31.03.2011, 12:01
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

erm, do you all think i buy that zvv pass for fun? i need it for the commute. ga pass for travelling more= spending money on fun. does not work. monthly costs=270=40chf more what pay now. 360 chf on inet n mobile is average number. that lowers an raises itself depending on GF and my mom/family (living all in germany). doesnt work. cant sit there n say: sorry, need to cut that call off, im saving.

as my GF has an iphone now n we talk about viber and text via whatsapp, my bill is 50% reduced this month. 80CHF, basic contract costs is already 60chf.

as is said: i see a 200-400chf extra savings in cash topped on what im saving already.its still 4500 chf.
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  #133  
Old 31.03.2011, 12:03
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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Instead of getting a 230CHF per month ZVV zone pass why don't you get a GA pass? It would be 305 per month on a subscription or 3300 per year which comes out to 275CHF per month. Then you can travel in more than that zone as well and travel around Switzerland more?

If your work gives reka checks you might be able to save a bit with them as well.

For internet and phone and tv you could get a vivo casa package from swisscom whcih would save you a good bit

http://www.swisscom.ch/res/kombi-angebote/index.htm

160CHF for mobile seems like an awful lot as well but I guess that depends on usage.
no reka cheques. but a subsidised cantin at work (which makes another 120chf/month) im with cablecom, wont change as the contract is pretty new. maybe after that 1st year that im bound to that contract. cheers for the link.
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  #134  
Old 31.03.2011, 12:05
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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erm, do you all think i buy that zvv pass for fun? i need it for the commute. ga pass for travelling more= spending money on fun. does not work. monthly costs=270=40chf more what pay now. 360 chf on inet n mobile is average number. that lowers an raises itself depending on GF and my mom/family (living all in germany). doesnt work. cant sit there n say: sorry, need to cut that call off, im saving.

as my GF has an iphone now n we talk about viber and text via whatsapp, my bill is 50% reduced this month. 80CHF, basic contract costs is already 60chf.

as is said: i see a 200-400chf extra savings in cash topped on what im saving already.its still 4500 chf.
But for an extra 45CHF you could get a GA which does all of that plus some more You might save money in other areas due to that.
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  #135  
Old 31.03.2011, 12:18
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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erm, do you all think i buy that zvv pass for fun? i need it for the commute.
you could move closer to work or commute by bike.

on calls to germany, you can set up a voip number. i do this for the uk so that friends can call me for free on a UK number with their mobile minutes. i can also call them for cheap (or free via skype/voip). check out: http://www.sipgate.de/user/tariffs.php you can call germany for free for 8eur a month. or 1.79c per minute with no monthly fee.
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Old 31.03.2011, 12:24
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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as is said: i see a 200-400chf extra savings in cash topped on what im saving already.its still 4500 chf.
for the swiss piece, this adds up to 3300 before the cash savings identified, not sure what the german insurance is about, but i guess this is not applicable to the typical person living in switzerland.
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Old 31.03.2011, 12:34
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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you could move closer to work or commute by bike.

on calls to germany, you can set up a voip number. i do this for the uk so that friends can call me for free on a UK number with their mobile minutes. i can also call them for cheap (or free via skype/voip). check out: http://www.sipgate.de/user/tariffs.php you can call germany for free for 8eur a month. or 1.79c per minute with no monthly fee.

biking in a suit is not working. no shower at work isnt working either. plus i work at times on the train. bike for 70km ride return. thanks, no thanks.

as is said, the fixum for funds is an extra. right.

moving outside of zurich= ok. but i said living in zurich=problem to save 3k as a single. and my whole base is in zurich=spendings for social things eat up the savings again. doesnt work.

anyway, to cut this short: i am happy, i can save money, its ok.
my intention was that i for myself cant see how to live on much less then 5k a month in zurich. thats all.
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  #138  
Old 31.03.2011, 12:34
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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no reka cheques. but a subsidised cantin at work (which makes another 120chf/month) im with cablecom, wont change as the contract is pretty new. maybe after that 1st year that im bound to that contract. cheers for the link.
http://www.upc-cablecom.ch/en/b2c/kombiangebote.htm

cablecom have better deals than swisscom. Maybe phone and see if they will change it. They should automatically offer it IMO
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  #139  
Old 31.03.2011, 12:40
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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my intention was that i for myself cant see how to live on much less then 5k a month in zurich. thats all.
i see your point. although, by your own figures, you yourself live on 3300 a month in zurich.
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  #140  
Old 31.03.2011, 12:45
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Re: Not able to save any cash in this country - sigh

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http://www.upc-cablecom.ch/en/b2c/kombiangebote.htm

cablecom have better deals than swisscom. Maybe phone and see if they will change it. They should automatically offer it IMO
i have the 75 for all 3 services. but foning home is 30chf-50CHF/month. my mom has no computer n stuff, no skype possible.

as i said: i went back n forth calculating...doesnt work.
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