Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 21.02.2009, 15:06
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,163
Groaned at 168 Times in 143 Posts
Thanked 6,572 Times in 2,977 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Quote:
View Post
This offer is for my almost perfect job description, the strong feeling I have is I haven't been treated fairly. I heard from a friend that there is age and sex discrimanation when it comes to salaries in CH. Is this true?
In general I would not be surprised to find a team where a man in his late 40s, with 3 kids and a stay at home mom is being paid a lot more than say a woman in her early 50s with grown up kids and a husband who is working as well. The traditional Swiss view would be that the man has more responsibilities!

There are many reasons for this and whether you consider them discrimanation or not is not the point, it is the way things are and you need to learn to deal with it. I have found that the best strategy is to ignore the issue and consider your own personal situation, will the salary offered give you a good standard of living and is the job something that you really want to do. Is so, go for it and forget about what others are earning.

Good luck in what ever you decide,

Jim.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 21.02.2009, 15:12
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,750
Groaned at 297 Times in 254 Posts
Thanked 22,121 Times in 8,035 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

I think the offer is too low, not matter if there are now 3% unemployed and some expats on the market (which I wish all the luck to find somethng good). This number is still very low in European comparison.

You seem to be a specialists, so you are worth your money and as Lynn said, this is a bit more than a graduate payment in most industries.

I do not see why the 90k job is less stressful as the 150k one. From my experience the most stressful times where when I was completely underpaid... here in Zurich. This leads me to the topic: Yes, quite some companies take advantage of you not knowing the Swiss market price. If you like a job, you can accept a low offer, but I would suggest yo not to go below 100k fixed. I was underpaid before and once you have a contract it is pretty impossible to change it to market price. I once fought nearly a year (as I otherwise really liked my job) and then finally left to company.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 21.02.2009, 15:14
magyir's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wallisellen
Posts: 1,626
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 499 Times in 345 Posts
magyir has a reputation beyond reputemagyir has a reputation beyond reputemagyir has a reputation beyond reputemagyir has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Just wanted to say I appreciate Lynn's honesty in this thread, not to mention the useful tips.

For the OP, if the company is pretty large and works in bands, ask them why you've been put in the band you're in, and how you can get to the next (funktionstufe in german).

Then ask about the other members of the team, and what you have to do to get at or above the team average.

It's all relative. Once you have a better perspective you can decide how to proceed, but to be honest the best chance for an increased offer is being able to demonstrate other offers in the ballpark you're looking for.

Or, you just decide to value the opportunity for now given the time in your life and famly commitments from a personal point of view.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 21.02.2009, 15:15
Mel07's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 756
Groaned at 14 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 949 Times in 371 Posts
Mel07 has a reputation beyond reputeMel07 has a reputation beyond reputeMel07 has a reputation beyond reputeMel07 has a reputation beyond reputeMel07 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Quote:
View Post
In general I would not be surprised to find a team where a man in his late 40s, with 3 kids and a stay at home mom is being paid a lot more than say a woman in her early 50s with grown up kids and a husband who is working as well. The traditional Swiss view would be that the man has more responsibilities!

There are many reasons for this and whether you consider them discrimanation or not is not the point, it is the way things are and you need to learn to deal with it. I have found that the best strategy is to ignore the issue and consider your own personal situation, will the salary offered give you a good standard of living and is the job something that you really want to do. Is so, go for it and forget about what others are earning.

Good luck in what ever you decide,

Jim.
I don't want to open a can of worms here, or take the thread off topic, but are you saying that if I were the main breadwinner of our family and my husband stayed at home with the kids, in Switzerland, I would be paid the same as a man my age in the same situation?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 21.02.2009, 15:38
J.L-P's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Gocki
Posts: 2,749
Groaned at 53 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 2,317 Times in 1,044 Posts
J.L-P has a reputation beyond reputeJ.L-P has a reputation beyond reputeJ.L-P has a reputation beyond reputeJ.L-P has a reputation beyond reputeJ.L-P has a reputation beyond reputeJ.L-P has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Quote:
View Post
To have almost ex... How does it work? Are you about dump him?
This is not about meeee, but about all those DRA salary statements that I have in a file and having spent years listening to many conversations about what can get factured into a DRA salary package (it's more complex than airline ticket prices).

If you really want to be nosey Jacek; he scooted-off years ago. "Almost" is found between "till death do us part" and a registered letter that says something like "the court has declared the union between "X" and "Y" null and void.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 21.02.2009, 16:04
Lynn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zurich Region
Posts: 1,131
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,296 Times in 465 Posts
Lynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Quote:
View Post
I don't want to open a can of worms here, or take the thread off topic, but are you saying that if I were the main breadwinner of our family and my husband stayed at home with the kids, in Switzerland, I would be paid the same as a man my age in the same situation?
Well, lets say that the employer didn't pay an extra 1% of mandatory accident/health insurance for each female salary and an extra 0.7 % BVG for each female salary then... yes its more likely that you would.

(The % quoted are based on the figures from 2006 they were the same in 2007 and 2008 but maybe things have changed...)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 21.02.2009, 16:06
Mel07's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 756
Groaned at 14 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 949 Times in 371 Posts
Mel07 has a reputation beyond reputeMel07 has a reputation beyond reputeMel07 has a reputation beyond reputeMel07 has a reputation beyond reputeMel07 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Quote:
View Post
Well, lets say that the employer didn't pay an extra 1% of mandatory accident/health insurance for each female salary and an extra 0.7 % BVG for each female salary then... yes its more likely that you would.

(The % quoted are based on the figures from 2006 they were the same in 2007 and 2008 but maybe things have changed...)
Well that's very good news then!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 21.02.2009, 16:08
Lynn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zurich Region
Posts: 1,131
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,296 Times in 465 Posts
Lynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

erm yeah... fact is the employer does pay that amount.. and thats not likely to change.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 21.02.2009, 16:13
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,458
Groaned at 109 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 6,092 Times in 3,411 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Quote:
View Post
This is not about meeee, but about all those DRA salary statements that I have in a file and having spent years listening to many conversations about what can get factured into a DRA salary package (it's more complex than airline ticket prices).

If you really want to be nosey Jacek; he scooted-off years ago. "Almost" is found between "till death do us part" and a registered letter that says something like "the court has declared the union between "X" and "Y" null and void.
Nothing much personal, just found it an interesting statement...

The salaries are apparently structured according to the place of your origin or where the individual is recruited from so people coming from various locations in Europe to Switzerland can earn different packages.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 21.02.2009, 17:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is my salary too low?

You are only worth what someone is willing to pay you. If this is not enough then go find a different employer or become self employed and you pay yourself what you think you deserve. At the end of the day, you will soon find out your actual worth on the employment market.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 21.02.2009, 19:33
Worrelpa's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nyon
Posts: 339
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 98 Times in 77 Posts
Worrelpa is considered knowledgeableWorrelpa is considered knowledgeableWorrelpa is considered knowledgeable
Re: Is my salary too low?

Well sorry but I find it all a bit crazy here regarding salaries. I have had different people tell me conflicting amounts based on my profile.

I have had certain Agencies (yeah I know don't believe them all) that I'm only worth between 60-90K and that I should go on the lower side because I don't have the local language skills. Then again I have had employment and offers vastly greater than that.

This was in IT and I have 18 years experience. (Showing my age there a bit.)
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 21.02.2009, 19:34
Worrelpa's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nyon
Posts: 339
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 98 Times in 77 Posts
Worrelpa is considered knowledgeableWorrelpa is considered knowledgeableWorrelpa is considered knowledgeable
Re: Is my salary too low?

and my current salary is way too low (0)
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 21.02.2009, 19:50
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,750
Groaned at 297 Times in 254 Posts
Thanked 22,121 Times in 8,035 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Do not believe headhunters... unless you read "Freakonomics" before... they work the same as the real estate agents analyzed in the book. And now I happily quote myself:

Quote:
View Post
I have posted this info before, but am happy to inform newcomers again :

The Swiss authorities love to know whats going on and have no problem to share their knowledge. So there is a lot of research on salaries publicly available not based on "what forum members would like to earn", but on the actual taxed income. You can gat huge excel sheets from the Bundesamt for statistics, but I personally prefer the very entertaining klickable map (sorry, but in German...):
http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/d...h_branche.html

my findings:
- Women are treated way more unfair than I expected.
- the regional differences by industry are huge (of course you cannot compare a city with the countryside as costs of living are so different, but Geneva and Zurich are for example comparable)

Have fun, I clicked around half a day when i found it the first time... and happy negotiations

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 21.02.2009, 20:55
cmh cmh is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BL
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
cmh has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is my salary too low?

Hi all,

Oxxy, depending on whether your experience (RA?) is relevant for the offered position, 82k seems low (even accounting for any female discrimination). For a full-time molecular biologist position with relevant RA experience (for example patent attorney), a range between 90k and 120k sounds much more reasonable for big pharma. A bonus of 10-15% is usual within the bandwith of non-manager positions, so 9k bonus sounds good for the 82k.

If you are new to the market or re-entering, you might settle for 85k and use this job as your entry in the market. It will allow you to explore your current role and its market value while gaining valuable experience, and then after some time switch to the real thing.
If your current employer recognizes your worth you will be able to apply for a better position within the current company. If not, you will want to explore other companies, and then you will know what you are really worth, and what you really want from your job, your employer, and from your colleagues. This takes time and experience.

kr, cmh

Last edited by Nathu; 22.02.2009 at 12:44. Reason: Paragraph removed on user's request
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank cmh for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 21.02.2009, 22:17
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,014
Groaned at 46 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,248 Times in 1,081 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Great first post cmh!
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 21.02.2009, 23:46
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,163
Groaned at 168 Times in 143 Posts
Thanked 6,572 Times in 2,977 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Quote:
View Post
I don't want to open a can of worms here, or take the thread off topic, but are you saying that if I were the main breadwinner of our family and my husband stayed at home with the kids, in Switzerland, I would be paid the same as a man my age in the same situation?
Of course not, this is Switzerland after all <g>. But I'd expect that you would be among the top earners in your team and probably more important in these days, you'd be very low down on the cut backs list. What I'm saying is that the Swiss do take the total picture into account and their idea of fairness might not always be ours... for may of them it is fair to give preference to the main bread winner over the others - pay them a bit more, try and hold on to them in the hard times etc...

In 20 years here, I have been involved in two situations where we needed to terminate someone for poor performance etc.. The first was a guy who turned up occasionally to work and had 19 written warning before HR agreed to act - the reason HR kept stringing it along was because he had a wife and two kids to support and in the second case, after 6 meetings on the subject, HR solved the problem by finding her a position in HR!!!

Good luck,

Jim.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 22.02.2009, 01:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,531
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Quote:
View Post
For a full-time molecular biologist position with relevant RA experience (for example patent attorney)
Do not mix what one has studied with what one has been hired to do.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 22.02.2009, 01:19
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: zurich
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 14 Times in 4 Posts
oxxy has made some interesting contributions
Re: Is my salary too low?

I'm hired to use my medical background...
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 22.02.2009, 09:45
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ticino
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 91 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 3,667 Times in 1,474 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

Quote:
View Post
Personally I survive on far less than that.. my food budget/week if you must know is 25.- So yeah I find these posts a tad offensive personally as well as looking around in general at all those folks loosing the roof over their heads while trying to keep their kids safe and fed.
The second part of the above I can concur with, but 25 CHF a week food budget? Give me a break.... Maybe if you aspire to be twiggy, but otherwise I just don't see it....
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 22.02.2009, 11:34
Lynn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zurich Region
Posts: 1,131
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,296 Times in 465 Posts
Lynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is my salary too low?

I don't aspire. I have no choice and I am not twiggy nor underweight.

OP: I think you've received all the possible advice here have you tried the calculators people sent you? What does that say? Are they making a fair offer??
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PhD salary??? zanmerto Employment 64 21.06.2011 01:40
Salary Mitziem Employment 5 05.10.2008 22:31
[Got job BUT] Is salary too low? franci Employment 65 15.06.2008 18:50
How much is the salary for...? Salary survey here Shorrick Mk2 Employment 4 27.07.2007 22:43
What salary should I ask for ? reuven12 Employment 18 03.02.2007 13:17


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0