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Old 23.02.2009, 08:58
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Tax Returns vs Tax at Source & Redundancy...

I earn a little over the 120K limit and asked my employer (perm) if I could switch to filling in a tax return. I was told that the local Kantonal tax authority (Zug) had said no in my case. Does this sound right that I am refused? Any advice? I have been in Switzerland 4 years (1 yr contract, 3 yrs perm) but less than 1 year in Zug.

Related to this, there is a chance I may get made redundant. Others that have been made redundant are being given garden leave for their notice period, if they start work before their notice is up, they loose the remaining salary.

Under the Tax at Source, if I negotiated my 3 month notice as one final 4x salary payment I would presumably be taxed at source, at a high rate, higher than if I remained unemployed and took 3 monthly payments (wife, kids etc)? Is there any way I could get back the overpayment if necessary (i.e. no job found)?
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Old 23.02.2009, 09:15
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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I earn a little over the 120K limit and asked my employer (perm) if I could switch to filling in a tax return. I was told that the local Kantonal tax authority (Zug) had said no in my case. Does this sound right that I am refused? Any advice? I have been in Switzerland 4 years (1 yr contract, 3 yrs perm) but less than 1 year in Zug.
All B Permit holders earning over 120k must complete a tax declaration, this is the rule, at least in Zug. You don't "switch" to filling in a tax return. Nothing changes for your employer. You still pay your tax at source as normal and complete the return the year after.

Moving from paying tax at source and paying provisionally can only be done once you have a C Permit.
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Old 23.02.2009, 12:12
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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All B Permit holders earning over 120k must complete a tax declaration, this is the rule, at least in Zug. You don't "switch" to filling in a tax return. Nothing changes for your employer. You still pay your tax at source as normal and complete the return the year after.

Moving from paying tax at source and paying provisionally can only be done once you have a C Permit.
what she said, above! (c; but as was pointed out to me here recently: never say never! It is within the discretion of the tax authority to instruct the employer to no longer deduct tax at source. you still have to make a tax return though.

bill
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Old 24.02.2009, 06:14
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

Thanks, I had no idea that I am obliged to submit a return.

Presumably I am eligible for the same tax deductions/offsets as C permit holders and anyone else who submits a return?
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Old 24.02.2009, 11:34
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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Thanks, I had no idea that I am obliged to submit a return.

Presumably I am eligible for the same tax deductions/offsets as C permit holders and anyone else who submits a return?
correct. download the software for your canton of residence from tehir tax office website and play with it. it is also invaluable in actually making the return. check out some of teh posts in the tax thread to get an idea of the timelines.

bill
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Old 24.02.2009, 17:29
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Source

I am an L Permit holder, non-EU, living in Rüschlikon. I earn > 120000 and my employer deducts my tax at source.

Do I need to file a tax return?
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Old 24.02.2009, 17:36
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Source

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I am an L Permit holder, non-EU, living in Rüschlikon. I earn > 120000 and my employer deducts my tax at source.

Do I need to file a tax return?
If you are resident in CH on 31st December and have been for 183 days/nights in the year: I am pretty sure yes. Someone will be along shortly to confirm it. Or a quick call to your tax office should answer it.

Either way the earliest you will hear about it/confirmation will be by receiving the tax forms in May.


bill
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Old 24.02.2009, 17:56
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Source

Thanks for the quick reply, Bill.

Also, I have invested in Pillar 3a, for which I am entitled to a tax refund.

I found a form for this, which says that I need to submit the same by end of March.

Does this mean that I should not wait till May for my tax return forms, to claim this refund?
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Old 24.02.2009, 17:57
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Source

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I am an L Permit holder, non-EU, living in Rüschlikon. I earn > 120000 and my employer deducts my tax at source.

Do I need to file a tax return?
I don't think so.

We were sent a letter after getting B Permits stating: B permit holders earning more than CHF 120k must submit a tax declaration.
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Old 24.02.2009, 18:05
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Source

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Thanks for the quick reply, Bill.

Also, I have invested in Pillar 3a, for which I am entitled to a tax refund.

I found a form for this, which says that I need to submit the same by end of March.

Does this mean that I should not wait till May for my tax return forms, to claim this refund?
MarieZug has greater experience than I here, so I would defer to her. Either you will or will not have to make a tax return, for the 3a rebate I would submit as soon as possible (before end March) otherwise if you wait you will loose the ability should you NOT have to make a tax return in the end. Err on the side of caution.
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Old 24.03.2009, 15:39
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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All B Permit holders earning over 120k must complete a tax declaration, this is the rule, at least in Zug. You don't "switch" to filling in a tax return. Nothing changes for your employer. You still pay your tax at source as normal and complete the return the year after.

Moving from paying tax at source and paying provisionally can only be done once you have a C Permit.
I just went to the tax office on Banhofstrasse in Zug, asking for the tax return form to fill in, and after they looked me up on the computer, I was told that I could not submit one. I might be sent one by the tax authorities if they want me to fill one in. Otherwise I don't have the option to fill one in!

Does this sound right?
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Old 24.03.2009, 15:49
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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I just went to the tax office on Banhofstrasse in Zug, asking for the tax return form to fill in, and after they looked me up on the computer, I was told that I could not submit one. I might be sent one by the tax authorities if they want me to fill one in. Otherwise I don't have the option to fill one in!

Does this sound right?
Lucky you. I would keep that one quiet

Yes, they decide who is required to complete them and they will send you a letter stating that your earnings are over CHF 120k and you are required to complete them by law. Until then, you don't have to complete them and should be happy because you may end up paying more tax when they start looking at your worldwide assets in income.
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Old 24.03.2009, 17:45
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

If you do need any further information I would suggest visiting the Migration office in Zug.

http://www.zug.ch/behoerden/org-mit-...ration/english

You do need to make an appointment but they are very helpful.
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Old 24.03.2009, 19:18
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

Could the threshold be 120k of taxable income (ie net of AHV, BVG etc) rather than gross income. If the OP is close to 120k gross, they'll be under 120k net?

No it's gross income that counts for sure... I have checked Zug guidelines for 2008 at http://www.zug.ch/behoerden/finanzdi...ionen-2008-qst

Quote from document "Quellensteuer [2008] - Wegleitung"

42. Nachträgliche Veranlagung
Betragen die dem Steuerabzug an der Quelle unterworfenen Bruttoeinkünfte eines Steuerpflichtigen
(ausgenommen Grenzgänger, Kurzaufenthalter und Wochenaufenthalter) in einem Kalenderjahr mehr als
Fr. 120'000.-, wird, wenn Wohnsitz oder Aufenthalt im Sinne des Steuergesetzes besteht, für dieses und
die nachfolgenden Jahre bis zum Ende der Steuerpflicht eine nachträgliche ordentliche Veranlagung
durch die Steuerverwaltung Zug, Gruppe Quellensteuer, für das gesamte Einkommen und Vermögen
durchgeführt. Dies gilt auch dann, wenn im Folgejahr die Limite von Fr. 120'000.- vorübergehend oder
dauernd unterschritten wird.

This is pretty clear to paraphrase if you gross income is over 120k, a tax assessment WILL BE done based on a tax return and it goes on to say that for part years the income will be grossed up to a 12 month basis.

Did you ask them why they wont issue the return?

Daniel

Last edited by dannyt986; 24.03.2009 at 19:34. Reason: Checked answer to my question
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Old 25.03.2009, 00:36
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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I just went to the tax office on Banhofstrasse in Zug, asking for the tax return form to fill in, and after they looked me up on the computer, I was told that I could not submit one. I might be sent one by the tax authorities if they want me to fill one in. Otherwise I don't have the option to fill one in!

Does this sound right?
Sounds right. your employer will not make their tax returns until the end of March at the earliest. These return are for their employees, what taxes they have deducted from AVH, BVG, UFO, etc etc.

So based on the tax the employer has withheld and is now declaring to the tax people they can then figure out what your top line is. The tax deducted indicates >120CHF you get the tax forms in the post.

Like I said in another thread (but related to VD) there is nothing the tax people can/will do until that employer declaration goes in.

sit tight.if you earn >120CHF you _WILL_ get a request.

bill
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Old 25.03.2009, 08:40
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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I just went to the tax office on Banhofstrasse in Zug, asking for the tax return form to fill in, and after they looked me up on the computer, I was told that I could not submit one. I might be sent one by the tax authorities if they want me to fill one in. Otherwise I don't have the option to fill one in!

Does this sound right?
It doesn't sound right to me. I had staff earning below the threshold, and because they wanted specific deductions taken into account, they wanted to fill in a tax return.

It's only good news if you'd have to pay more if you filled in a tax return. If you think you're due a rebate, you should go back to them - or get your accountant onto them. Of course, rules vary from canton to canton!
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Old 18.01.2012, 15:04
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

Old thread but similar question - we moved here in July 2011, on an L permit (though unlimited work contract). The annual salary is >120,000 and tax is deducted at source, but less than 120,000 was made in 2011 due to the partial year. Will we receive any tax forms in the mail? Do we need to go get a form somewhere? Should/can we file a tax return? Thanks and sorry if this is covered elsewhere.
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Old 20.01.2012, 13:56
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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Old thread but similar question - we moved here in July 2011, on an L permit (though unlimited work contract). The annual salary is >120,000 and tax is deducted at source, but less than 120,000 was made in 2011 due to the partial year. Will we receive any tax forms in the mail? Do we need to go get a form somewhere? Should/can we file a tax return? Thanks and sorry if this is covered elsewhere.
To answer my own question, according to an accountant I contacted, we have to file a tax return as the annual salary is more than 120,000 CHF (though we made less in 2011 due to working a partial year).
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Old 20.01.2012, 18:10
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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To answer my own question, according to an accountant I contacted, we have to file a tax return as the annual salary is more than 120,000 CHF (though we made less in 2011 due to working a partial year).
This is correct.
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Old 20.01.2012, 20:07
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Re: Tax Returns vs Tax at Soruce & Redundancy...

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To answer my own question, according to an accountant I contacted, we have to file a tax return as the annual salary is more than 120,000 CHF (though we made less in 2011 due to working a partial year).
Partial year is not relevant. If you had worked a full year on the rate of pay you got in the partial year, you would have earned over 120k annually.

I had the same situation working just the last 3 months of a year. In reality, it was a couple of years later before I was requested to fill a tax return for that year and then another year and a half before I got refunded some money.

Taling Kanton SG here.
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