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Old 26.08.2009, 01:17
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Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

I am currently registered as unemployed with RAV and receiving unemployments benefits. RAV encourages me to take any kind of work, be it a permanent job, or just a "Zwischenverdienst". I have an opportunity for a 6 weeks contract in Germany, and since the job is as freelancer outside of Switzerland, I am worried, if it will influence my unemployment benefits after the 6 week contract ends.
Commuting 400 km daily is not really an option, so will RAV consider me having left Switzerland, and what will happen re. unemployment insurance contributions ? will they be paid in Switzerland or Germany ?
Is there a limit of how long I may be outside of Switzerland ?

I asked my RAV contact person yesterday, and he replied today, he was not sure, and would need to look into it. As I got the job offer through a friend, I would like to give an accept tomorrow, so I would appreciate, if anybody, who has been in a similar situation, would be able to answer.

(I am EU-Citizen, and have lived more than 5 years in Germany, and got a Unlimited permit for Germany)

Thanks,

Doc.
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Old 26.08.2009, 13:37
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH ?

I *guess* you should look at the penalty the RAV / Kasse may impose by not declaring your job, and work backwards. You can expect a reduced payment for not fulfilling all their criteria, but if your job will compensate say, fourteen days penalty, then perhaps it's worth it.

However, I reckon as you've already informed the RAV and they - surprise surprise - appear clueless, just go ahead and say "Yes". You'll no doubt have to fill in some sort of form which they can email to you declaring you're on a foreign jolly. You are aware they will contribute a percentage extra because you've shown initiative and taken on a short term job? I'm not sure of the details but it's something like 70% of the difference between what the Kasse pays you and what you earned in your last job, so it's trebles all round finding work.

As for pensions, I guess there are ways and means to bring in your EU earned contributions to Switzerland. I've no idea how, though.

Say yes, let the RAV inform you later. Let us know how it works out
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Last edited by Uncle Max; 26.08.2009 at 13:48. Reason: typo
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Old 26.08.2009, 14:59
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH ?

Your investigations are justified - in principle you can accept this temporary job and will still be covered by the Swiss unemployment insurance (and not in the host country), but there are some points to consider.

http://www.digitalsven.ch/alv/art24.html

You have to maintain ties to the job market of your Swiss residence.


http://jumpcgi.bger.ch/cgi-bin/JumpC....2006_C_290/03

As usual salaries abroad can be lower than in Switzerland, it has been disputed if the insurance has to top up to the 70%/80% of your insured salary (maybe in the long run or further conditions given - sorry I don't have the time to read all the legalese)


http://www.treffpunkt-arbeit.ch/date..._d_2004_12.pdf

p.73f: The abroad definition of "full time employment" might apply.
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Old 26.08.2009, 23:11
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH ?

Thanks for your replies.

I have accepted the job, as it is a quite wellpaid freelance contract, so I will earn ca. twice as much, as I get in unemployment benefits now, so having RAV "top up" will not be necessary. Since I have been jobless for 4 months now, RAV will probably be more than happy to see me working for at least 1.5 month, even if it is not in Switzerland.
My main worry is, if I run into any kind of Problems, by being outside of Switzerland for 1.5 months ?

I do think, my RAV contact person is generally very fair, competent, and well informed, but I guess that a short term contract in another country is also a "first time question" for them. He has so far answered, I will have to keep applying for other jobs, as I can see already now, that I will be out of a job in October, and even though I am in Germany, I will still have to apply for 10 jobs per month.. I get a laptop, I can take with me after work, and I got a room organized laready, where Internet is available, so Job Search can be continued without problems.

With a bit of luck, I can start in a permanent job in Zürich, right after the contract ends, and in that case, I do not need to worry about, what RAV will say, but I need to go through a 2nd Interview first...

I will update, when i get news from RAV.

Doc.
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Old 26.08.2009, 23:18
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH ?

What happens when/if RAV proposes a job you really do not like or feel will not help your CV or you don't feel good at it or whatever? What if you decline the job (of course out of genuine causes!!!) Then what?
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Old 26.08.2009, 23:24
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH ?

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What happens when/if RAV proposes a job you really do not like or feel will not help your CV or you don't feel good at it or whatever? What if you decline the job (of course out of genuine causes!!!) Then what?
RAV has proposed a job to me once but as I did not have all the skills they asked for, it was perfectly fine, that I declined in that case.
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Old 27.08.2009, 01:14
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH ?

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What happens when/if RAV proposes a job you really do not like or feel will not help your CV or you don't feel good at it or whatever? What if you decline the job (of course out of genuine causes!!!) Then what?
I'd imagine at the moment you'd be pressed into accepting, considering the market. IIRC you may refuse two offers which are reasonably within your field - even a lower field - but then you have to say yes to the third.

Should Migros be looking for shelf stackers...

(*Take what you read on teh interwebs in moderation*)
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Old 03.09.2009, 21:02
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH ?

Update:

I'm ok since the Job is well paid, and since I keep my my Swiss Address, and only rent a BnB room in Germany. If I had taken a job in a country where the Salaries were lower, RAV can refuse to top up 70% of the difference, but it is an individual decission in each case.
Having spoken to my RAV contact person about temporary contracts in general, he said, that from ca. 3 months, I should show him the contract, and he would then decide, if I should unregister, or just stay registered.

See you mid october.

Doc.
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Old 03.09.2009, 21:45
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH ?

This is OK, I talked about a 3 month contract in Germany with my RAV counsellor a few weeks ago and he said it was OK but it is better to stay registered with the RAV for the duration of the contract (which also means continue looking for work etc). If you de-register and then re-register it can be complicated. The other thing he said was that they (RAV) would need confirmation of salary and tax paid while in Germany and all benefits etc.

However, as the job is in Germany you are not obliged to take it.
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Old 03.09.2009, 22:20
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

This job is so well paid that it cannot be considered as "ZwischenVerdienst". ZV is a meagre income obtained while working a few weekly hours and simultaneously searching intensively. The OP's contract is employment. If and when it terminates OP can revert to unemployed status and the benefits recalibrated.

Apparently, the RAV counselor is willing to accept the ZV status. Nevertheless, also check with the ALK (ArbeitsLosen Kasse).
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Old 03.09.2009, 23:31
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

Doctor, thanks for reporting back. I hope you have a good time in Germany.

Goldtop, I think you are very wrong about the Zwischenverdienst which roughly translates to "temporary income". Doctor's job is temporary and his return to the status of unemployment is foreseeable.

The income of a ZV is, as I understand it, only relevant for the calculation of partial unemployment benefit payments. To force unemployed takers of a temporary position to declare themselves employed if the job earns them more than a certain percentage of their unemployment benefits would be silly. I for example seek full time employment for the first time and thus receive few unemployment benefits. Every temporary full time position out there would pay me at least 200% of my unemployment benefits.

Also from the perspective of the state, you can forget about them setting the clock back to 400 days of entitlement over a 2 years period after a six weeks contract - this unemployment to them is related to the previous period.

I hope this made some sense, else I could be in trouble


Edit: To clarify, I'm also positive Zwischenverdienst can be 100% employment.
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Last edited by Nathu; 04.09.2009 at 11:20. Reason: Repeating the calculation in daylight, I have decided that my unemployment benefits aren't that bad and adapted the %.
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Old 04.09.2009, 00:08
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

Nathu is absolutely correct. I took a four month job earlier this year, which earned more than unemployment paid but less than I earned at my prior job. I was taken off RAV, worked the job and then had to fully re-register - but I received the same income that I did before I took the lower-paying job.
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Old 04.09.2009, 11:00
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

Further, your period working on a temporary (whatever %) assignment in effect puts your RAV time on hold; once you return to claiming full benefit, the clock starts ticking again, ie: you don't lose out on the time spent working. It pays all round to be working
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Old 16.05.2011, 13:05
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

To revive an old thread, 2 questions:

*Can one perform and report work as Zwischenverdienst for which one does not have a contract?

*Can one sign off the dole for a period of time to perform Zwischenverdienst (such as the above, with no contract) and then sign back on say after a couple of months at the rate they had been receiving? Or when performing Zwischenverdienst must one remain signed on?

I feel like these may have been answered, but it's all so complicated. My Berater hasn't been too helpful, so trying to gather info.

Thanks!
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Old 16.06.2011, 01:24
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

A new example for the RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH?

From my understanding of being unemployed, and taking short term contracts is basically: the clock is not re-set (rather it’s on hold) and the current max. 400 day benefits one can receive is over a 2 year period,. This means that if I return to the RAV the clock is re-started. HOWEVER, Conventionally yes … but here is my story and it is similar to the tread at the top of this stack but different! …

I am UK & CH Citizen having lived more than 10 years in Switzerland.
I am currently registered as unemployed with RAV for approx.. 3 mnths.

I have an opportunity for a 6 mnth contract with the EU as a consultant / project manager in Afghanistan: and where my expertise can be utilized. The contract is with an NGO based from London and I will have home-office every 6 wks (approx.). Family, wife – kids etc …

My current option / thoughts are not to sign-off, but rather to stay registered with the RAV for the duration of the contract (which also means continue looking for work as re-registering could get complicated.


So here are the questions (7): therefore some quick answers would be appreciated.

1. What could be the imposed penalty the RAV could set by (reduced payment) for not fulfilling all their criteria of finding a job in Switzerland ?
For my case has anyone got an idea (concrete what this might mean?

2. Is there a limit of how long I may be outside of Switzerland ?
3. If that in principle I can accept this temporary job and it will still be covered by the Swiss unemployment insurance (and not in the host country)
I still have no concrete evidence of where this is stated. Although a link was provided in the last string www.digitalsven.ch/alv/art24.html

4. I have been informed that because I have paid enough AHV already this year – I would be basically covered. But because I will not be employed by a Swiss company I need to complete this form http://www.svazurich.ch/pdf/beitrags...ung_anobag.pdf
Any confirmation on this ?

5. The NGO salary offer is lower than the current RAV payment: Is true that they “can / will” contribute a percentage extra (top up of 70%) because I would show initiative in taking on a short term job? & is this linked to the fact that I would agree to maintain ties to the CH job market (applying 10 / month)
Who makes this decision and where / how? Any confirmation on this ?

6. With a 6 mnt contact – is the weighting the same as it is with the 3 mnth contract is this thread: I did not get a clear answer on this ?

7. As I can provide confirmation to the contract to the RAV that is not an issue; taxes are. As I do not pay Taxes is AFG (due to it being a NGO contract) but is there an issue with not paying taxes for the RAV / Swiss side.
Anyone got a clue on this ?

In advance, thanks for reading and taking the time to answar
Phil
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Old 16.06.2011, 02:44
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

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A new example for the RAV + Zwischenverdienst outside of CH?

From my understanding of being unemployed, and taking short term contracts is basically: the clock is not re-set (rather it’s on hold) and the current max. 400 day benefits one can receive is over a 2 year period,. This means that if I return to the RAV the clock is re-started. HOWEVER, Conventionally yes … but here is my story and it is similar to the tread at the top of this stack but different! …

I am UK & CH Citizen having lived more than 10 years in Switzerland.
I am currently registered as unemployed with RAV for approx.. 3 mnths.

I have an opportunity for a 6 mnth contract with the EU as a consultant / project manager in Afghanistan: and where my expertise can be utilized. The contract is with an NGO based from London and I will have home-office every 6 wks (approx.). Family, wife – kids etc …

My current option / thoughts are not to sign-off, but rather to stay registered with the RAV for the duration of the contract (which also means continue looking for work as re-registering could get complicated.


So here are the questions (7): therefore some quick answers would be appreciated.

1. What could be the imposed penalty the RAV could set by (reduced payment) for not fulfilling all their criteria of finding a job in Switzerland ?
For my case has anyone got an idea (concrete what this might mean?

2. Is there a limit of how long I may be outside of Switzerland ?
3. If that in principle I can accept this temporary job and it will still be covered by the Swiss unemployment insurance (and not in the host country)
I still have no concrete evidence of where this is stated. Although a link was provided in the last string www.digitalsven.ch/alv/art24.html

4. I have been informed that because I have paid enough AHV already this year – I would be basically covered. But because I will not be employed by a Swiss company I need to complete this form http://www.svazurich.ch/pdf/beitrags...ung_anobag.pdf
Any confirmation on this ?

5. The NGO salary offer is lower than the current RAV payment: Is true that they “can / will” contribute a percentage extra (top up of 70%) because I would show initiative in taking on a short term job? & is this linked to the fact that I would agree to maintain ties to the CH job market (applying 10 / month)
Who makes this decision and where / how? Any confirmation on this ?

6. With a 6 mnt contact – is the weighting the same as it is with the 3 mnth contract is this thread: I did not get a clear answer on this ?

7. As I can provide confirmation to the contract to the RAV that is not an issue; taxes are. As I do not pay Taxes is AFG (due to it being a NGO contract) but is there an issue with not paying taxes for the RAV / Swiss side.
Anyone got a clue on this ?

In advance, thanks for reading and taking the time to answar
Phil
Hi,

I have been registered with the RAV for 5 years. I do various contracts in & outside CH.

During your rahmenfrist you can stop being with RAV & return to take any unused days.

If your work is outside CH they wont count for a new rahmenfrist.

They will pay top ups. If you earn 70.1% you get no top up, if you earn 69.9% then 70% of 30.1% will be topped up. Different no of days in a month do make a difference. If you want top ups you have to stay at RAV & look for work.

If 1 month your earn 10,000 then 0 , then 10,000 they will pay the middle month, it's just calculated month by month depending on your earnings that month.

There is no limit to the length of contracts. Indeed a new rahemenfrist can be earnt, I am on no 3!

I guess you can pay tax in CH at the end of the year, RAV don't car about taxes.

Hope this helps!
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Old 16.06.2011, 13:02
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

To the above replier ... thanks for your information.
Could I ask you to provide me your direct contact details so I could talk to you ?

Kind Regards Phil
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Old 16.06.2011, 13:37
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Re: Question re. RAV + Zwischenverdienst [in between job] outside of CH ?

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To the above replier ... thanks for your information.
Could I ask you to provide me your direct contact details so I could talk to you ?

Kind Regards Phil
PM me an email addtess / land line no & we can talk.

If your doing some work the RAV will be very helpful & supportive.
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