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Old 03.02.2010, 10:42
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Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

I have question regarding Child care options while getting RAV benefits. I am expecting baby in March, and RAV representative told me that I need to show, I have some arrangement for child care after birth.
As it is hard to guess now when I will be getting job exactly, how to show for Nanny or alternatives right now? Even applications to kinderhort have long waiting lists and can not be guaranteed to be available from exact date in advance.
Has anyone gone through this situation or have idea of this?
Appreciate your help.
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Old 03.02.2010, 10:48
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

You have to show the RAV that you have child care orgainsed for example a gauranteed place at a krippe or with a tagesmutter etc or they will not give you any payments. The fact you don't know when you will get a job is irrelevant they need you to be able to start "tomorrow" and therefore have childcare in place.
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Old 03.02.2010, 12:40
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

Yes, that is true. But as job finding period can vary upto an year.. is it wise thing to hire nanny.. and spending 1/3 amount of benefit on her?
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Old 03.02.2010, 12:45
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

If you want to claim from the RAV that is what you have to do, spend a 1/3 or get nothing at all. If you don't have childcare they will stop your payments.

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Yes, that is true. But as job finding period can vary upto an year.. is it wise thing to hire nanny.. and spending 1/3 amount of benefit on her?
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Old 03.02.2010, 15:39
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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Yes, that is true. But as job finding period can vary upto an year.. is it wise thing to hire nanny.. and spending 1/3 amount of benefit on her?
No it's not wise, but is it wise of the RAV to pay you if you are unavailable for any work that may turn up ?

Any case you don't need to pay for a nanny, you need to have one ready to take over at 24 hours notice, maybe you can come to an agreement, pay a retainer or whatever.
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Old 04.06.2013, 08:29
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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No it's not wise, but is it wise of the RAV to pay you if you are unavailable for any work that may turn up ?

Any case you don't need to pay for a nanny, you need to have one ready to take over at 24 hours notice, maybe you can come to an agreement, pay a retainer or whatever.
Hi, I am just picking up this post. Im on RAV now but thinking of going off for a few months now that my wife is home on maternity. But after I would take over some of the care, and we will have a krippe for the rest.

So do I need to show I am paying also for the days we don't have krippe arranged. My mother in law could easily be in Zurich in 2 hours and often stays with us anyway to help. So there is no reason I couldnt start a job within 24 hours.

I agree with the OP from 2010 that it makes little sense to hire a kirppe five days a week. Especially if that just means you pay all your benefit to the krippe so you can be away from your child and stare at the wall at home (so to speak). It would be like the state subsidizing the krippe. Hardly makes sense.
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Old 04.06.2013, 09:17
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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Hi, I am just picking up this post. Im on RAV now but thinking of going off for a few months now that my wife is home on maternity. But after I would take over some of the care, and we will have a krippe for the rest.

So do I need to show I am paying also for the days we don't have krippe arranged. My mother in law could easily be in Zurich in 2 hours and often stays with us anyway to help. So there is no reason I couldnt start a job within 24 hours.

I agree with the OP from 2010 that it makes little sense to hire a kirppe five days a week. Especially if that just means you pay all your benefit to the krippe so you can be away from your child and stare at the wall at home (so to speak). It would be like the state subsidizing the krippe. Hardly makes sense.
As much as I empathize, there are people out there who will abuse the system. It has to be that way so that people don't use RAV to fund being a stay-at-home parent. Now if only they came up with a better system to catch those people vacationing on RAV money. I can think of one friend in particular who has pretty much done a world tour while on RAV - obviously unbeknownst to their adviser.
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Old 26.06.2013, 07:27
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

Does anyone know if they check your child's attendance in krippe while on RAV? Maybe you are able to use the kinderkrippe when you have interviews and spend time with your child when you don't.
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Old 26.06.2013, 09:10
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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As much as I empathize, there are people out there who will abuse the system. It has to be that way so that people don't use RAV to fund being a stay-at-home parent. Now if only they came up with a better system to catch those people vacationing on RAV money. I can think of one friend in particular who has pretty much done a world tour while on RAV - obviously unbeknownst to their adviser.
And you haven't reported him/her?
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Old 26.06.2013, 09:30
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

Searching for a job, is a job, which is why people get RAV. If you are allowed to go on holiday when you are working, why wouldn't you be allowed when searching for work. Job hunting is very demoralising, and in the medium to long term can lead to problems like depression, so job hunters need a break to relax just as much as workers too.
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Old 26.06.2013, 10:06
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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Searching for a job, is a job, which is why people get RAV. If you are allowed to go on holiday when you are working, why wouldn't you be allowed when searching for work. Job hunting is very demoralising, and in the medium to long term can lead to problems like depression, so job hunters need a break to relax just as much as workers too.
True, but it doesn't mean you necessarily should be paid for it. RAV pays you because you must be available to take up work at any time. If you're on holiday, particularly on a world tour, you're not available and therefore shouldn't be paid. If it was otherwise, he would have told his adviser.
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Old 24.02.2021, 12:08
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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You have to show the RAV that you have child care orgainsed for example a gauranteed place at a krippe or with a tagesmutter etc or they will not give you any payments. The fact you don't know when you will get a job is irrelevant they need you to be able to start "tomorrow" and therefore have childcare in place.
Dear Lou,
Following my maternity leave, I would like to find an 80% part-time job. I live in the canton of Zurich. My child will go to the nursery 3 half days a week (11:00-18:30) but I know that it is important to prove that I have established day-care to be available as soon as I find a new job. Our day-care guarantees us to take our child at 80% as soon as I find a job. Is that enough or I need to register him already at 80%?
Thank you for your help.
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Old 01.03.2021, 18:07
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

My wife is also having issues with unemployment insurance due to this issue.

Her contract ended, she is doing an internship with the BNF (and has a tentative 50% job offer in may at 50% througgh that internship), we have a 9 month old child, we have applied to some nurseries/day cares, but are still waiting (we have taken one spot that opens in August).

We currently hire, part-time, a nanny who is going to university for a masters degree involving childcare.
My wife told her ORP (I assume ORP in french= RAV in german) counsellor that she has a nanny.

My wife's counsellor wants to see proof of child-care arrangements. The counsellor warned her that a nanny working "In the black" or something like that would cause problems.

Would it be a problem if our student-nanny is paid in cash, with no written contract? Isn't it her responsibility to report her income, not ours?

Do students really need to have written contracts to legally make a little money on the side when babysitting?

Furthermore, I am also allowed flexible working hours, so some days I watch our son, and some days my wife's parents watch him (my wife's parents run an independent enterprise).

We are worried that if what we submit is different than what we told the counsellor, that they will get suspicious, and look into the nanny situation?
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Old 01.03.2021, 18:11
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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Would it be a problem if our student-nanny is paid in cash, with no written contract? Isn't it her responsibility to report her income, not ours?
Are you paying her social taxes and 1st and 2nd pilastri as you should be?

Tom
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Old 01.03.2021, 18:15
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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Would it be a problem if our student-nanny is paid in cash, with no written contract? Isn't it her responsibility to report her income, not ours?
I don't know the exact rules, but if they are working for you regularly they or you should be paying deductions and accident insurance.

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Furthermore, I am also allowed flexible working hours, so some days I watch our son, and some days my wife's parents watch him (my wife's parents run an independent enterprise).
Why not write a letter together with your in-laws pledging to split the child care between you and the grandparents (forget mentioning a nanny), not sure why that would be a problem.
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Old 01.03.2021, 18:37
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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Do students really need to have written contracts to legally make a little money on the side when babysitting?
Nobody needs a written contract, they can also be verbal.

BUT they may ask to see documentation of salary and social contributions, even if paid in cash.

Tom
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Old 01.03.2021, 18:51
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

The problem will be when RAV offers you a job, and you have to accept, within reason- and have 100% childcare in place. I signed the official papers for a friend, but I knew that there was a chance I would have to take responsibility for full-time childcare if and when job turned up and unless and until alternative was found. If I refused, for instance, I could have been in trouble with the Law myself for falsely signing documentation.

And if the 'nanny' has an accident and she is not insured as employed by you- be it at work or outside and she sues you.

It is hard, but on RAV you are considered to be employed, with RAV as your employer- so have to have official childcare in place.

Last edited by JackieH; 02.03.2021 at 11:13.
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Old 01.03.2021, 19:01
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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My wife is also having issues with unemployment insurance due to this issue.

Her contract ended, she is doing an internship with the BNF (and has a tentative 50% job offer in may at 50% througgh that internship), we have a 9 month old child, we have applied to some nurseries/day cares, but are still waiting (we have taken one spot that opens in August).

We currently hire, part-time, a nanny who is going to university for a masters degree involving childcare.
My wife told her ORP (I assume ORP in french= RAV in german) counsellor that she has a nanny.

My wife's counsellor wants to see proof of child-care arrangements. The counsellor warned her that a nanny working "In the black" or something like that would cause problems.

Would it be a problem if our student-nanny is paid in cash, with no written contract? Isn't it her responsibility to report her income, not ours?

Do students really need to have written contracts to legally make a little money on the side when babysitting?

Furthermore, I am also allowed flexible working hours, so some days I watch our son, and some days my wife's parents watch him (my wife's parents run an independent enterprise).

We are worried that if what we submit is different than what we told the counsellor, that they will get suspicious, and look into the nanny situation?
You can't have it both ways; they're either a nanny or a babysitter. And no, it's not your nanny's responsibility to report her income, it's yours to do all the necessary paperwork involved in hiring a nanny/domestic worker.

"As a family, you are an employer, which is why you are subject to legal obligations, such as drawing up the monthly pay slip, registering with the social security institutions, declaring withholding tax depending on the domestic worker, preparing annual declarations, taking out necessary insurance, etc."

https://www.perfectway.ch/en/for-fam...mestic-workers

If they're just a babysitter then different rules would apply, but you've told RAV they're a nanny so you're probably stuck with that definition now.
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Old 01.03.2021, 19:59
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

Yes, but there is no tax withholding if they are Swiss or have a C-permit.

Tom
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Old 02.03.2021, 00:48
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Re: Help -- Showing Child care options while on RAV

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Would it be a problem if our student-nanny is paid in cash, with no written contract? Isn't it her responsibility to report her income, not ours?

Do students really need to have written contracts to legally make a little money on the side when babysitting?
You are responsible for the people you employ:
- You are responsible for ensuring that they have the appropriate permission to work
- You are responsible for ensuring you pay the appropriate social security etc

It is not necessary to have a written contract but and this is a big but, a person paid cash in hand is entitled to assume that it is net of social security, pension and withholding taxes if applicable.


[QOUTE]
We are worried that if what we submit is different than what we told the counsellor, that they will get suspicious, and look into the nanny situation?[/QUOTE]

They’d want to be pretty dim not too. Claiming you have a nanny that only earns a little money babysitting is not going to fly. And in any case a nanny is not fully time child care.

Hint: don’t expect this so called nanny to lie for you if asked.
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